Re: Nick Viall Bachelorette 11 - Fan Forum - *SLEUTHING - SPOILERS* - Thread #15

[SueSt]

Thoughts:

First, I loved Nick and his warm, sweet, very natural self during their date this week. He and K just seem very natural together during this whole season.  At first, I thought it was because they made a good pair.  But now I am wondering if it is just Nick's ability to be a calming presence when he is with a girl he likes.  He puts K at ease....when they are having fun and laughing (in the park in Dublin, dancing, her prank in the jail fantasy suite)...when she is facing her fears (the birds in Dublin)...when they are being serious (talking about their relationship, his feelings for her, his family, ect)...even when they are discussing uncomfortable topics (when he asked to join the show, talking about Shawn this past episode). He brings out the best in his partners by putting them at ease and allowing them to take front stage.  He does with K.  He did with A as well.  He allows his partner to shine while he takes the backseat to their thoughts, emotions and expressions.  I have never enjoyed K so much this season than when she was alone with Nick.  Those are the times I see the self assured, confident, funny woman I fell in love with last season.  Her interactions with most of her other suitors this season leave her coming across flat, life-less, afraid and doubting herself.  Nick has allowed her to be herself...the best version of herself.  JMO.

Secondly, I do not see the manipulative man that others see.  I see a guy who pretty much wears his heart on his sleeve obvious to anyone with their eyes open.  He is transparent.  There has been talk about his "deceitful" body language and "creepy, shifty" eye contact.  Again, I see a nervous guy who talks with his hands and has a nervous tick which causes him to touch his face when he starts to question himself.  His poker tell would be touching his face...more specifically his mouth when he gets nervous.  He also leans on his hand towards the other person when he is engaging.  His eye contact strikes me as his way of making it obvious that he is fully listening to his partner.  He looks dead on his partners eyes when he is engaged, but looks away when unsure of if his feelings are being reciprocated or if he is expressing himself clearly.

All these strike me as normal expressions of body language.  Actually quite sincere and honest.  

Thirdly, I believe one of his main love languages is physical touch.  K. Has mentioned his "hands-on" approach a few times, so I started watching for signals.  He uses physical touch as a way to express his feelings towards K. (And did this with A as well).  He also reaches out for the reciprocation of physical touch when interacting with K.  When they had the "did you tell the other guys" talk at the RC in Dublin, Nick reached out to get physical confirmation from K near the end of the conversation.  He said something like, "Can I kiss you?" He just wanted to make sure that she was still receptive to him and expressive of her feelings for him with her physical reaction (kissing). I also think this is why he took such offense at A saying she never loved him when they had consummated what he thought was love.  Because to him the physical relationship is a very real extension of the emotional relationship...they start to meld into each other very readily.  I don't think that he is physical with everyone...not a flirt as K suggested.  But rather just expressing his feelings of love in a physical way to those that he does care strongly for.  

Beautifully written again your way of describing Nick just touches my heart . He truly is a gem that one lucky lady will cherish the rest of her life.

Me too OP... Great summary of why we love Nick.
He doesn't push an agenda or lifestyle; he's a great listener and in being so, as you point out, he encourages his lady interest to reveal herself.
And the inner soul that's revealed is like a flower opening. Very erotic.
My theory is that the women get afraid; afraid that they are not being led, afraid of having to be authentic and retreat back into a more narrowly, traditionally defined relationship of gender roles.
Nick is the right guy for someone that doesn't need to be controlled, rather wants to explore themselves in a more fluid partnership...

[kimberlyg]

I'm a fan who doesn't want to see him as the lead.  Nick, if you can't find a girl in Chicago, move to NYC.  They have salesforce here, and you can hang with Sharleen and Andy (and it's a huge city and so it won't be too hard to avoid Andi) .

(And yes, I just assumed Nick is reading this, even though he isn't named "Josh Murray" ).

[yht11]

I have to admit that I never gave Nick much thought last season, but have grown to really like him on this season. I don’t think Nick is completely innocent; his “Eskimo brothers” comment was ill advised, but I understand where it came from. I don’t doubt that the producers had a hand in this—likely telling him that Shawn was voicing his distaste for him to Kaitlyn. They are probably also aware that Nick has tendency to overanalyze—causing him to get in over his head. In many ways I find him endearing and relatable.

Nick and Kaitlyn are not compatible long-term, but I like their interactions. Nick treats her as an equal; he never forces her to prove her “worth” to him. Their interactions sharply contrast those with “the other guy,” who exudes an air of moral superiority. I don’t quite understand those that view Nick as arrogant because I think he repeatedly demonstrates humility. It’s rather unfortunate that many viewers can’t observe him objectively.

[GuardianAngel]

Today in my country, Slovenia, we've laid to rest our beloved "Polka King" (S. Avsenik), one of few Slovenes who brought polka to other countries, including Canada (W. Ostanek who received the Grammy awards for polka) ... weirdly I never enjoyed "our country music", preferred "the American" from Texas to Alberta ... till the day I've seen Nick "dance" on it in his hometown ... so ... since the last episode I have nothing positive to share here (I gladly won't watch the show after reading all the comments), but I want to give a shout-out to Viall family, for bringing the pride home ... them for their boy and reminding me of my roots.
Thank you.
Polka proud.

OT but I had to bring this forward so I can reply. happy, my condolences on the passing of your beloved Polka King. I learned how to polka at a very young age (as well as tango). Listening to that music always reminds me of my youth and well into my late twenties. Secondly Walter Ostanek is Canada's Polka King and lives 20 minutes from me. He is well loved!

[notarose]

Ba bam! Living vicariously through my best friend! Thank goodness she actually got a pic!#thebachelorette #nick 
 http://iconosquare.com/viewer.php#/detail/1024228200429725124_333590840

[notarose]

@spencerpratt
I really hope Nick wins the #Bachelorette and if not he better be on #BachelorInParadise ! 
July 7th

https://mobile.twitter.com/spencerpratt/tweets

     
The doppelgänger has spoken.

[mysthelma]

@spencerpratt
I really hope Nick wins the #Bachelorette and if not he better be on #BachelorInParadise ! 
July 7th

https://mobile.twitter.com/spencerpratt/tweets

     
The doppelgänger has spoken.

Hilarious nice one spencer

[SueSt]

I have to admit that I never gave Nick much thought last season, but have grown to really like him on this season. I don’t think Nick is completely innocent; his “Eskimo brothers” comment was ill advised, but I understand where it came from. I don’t doubt that the producers had a hand in this—likely telling him that Shawn was voicing his distaste for him to Kaitlyn. They are probably also aware that Nick has tendency to overanalyze—causing him to get in over his head. In many ways I find him endearing and relatable.

Nick and Kaitlyn are not compatible long-term, but I like their interactions. Nick treats her as an equal; he never forces her to prove her “worth” to him. Their interactions sharply contrast those with “the other guy,” who exudes an air of moral superiority. I don’t quite understand those that view Nick as arrogant because I think he repeatedly demonstrates humility. It’s rather unfortunate that many viewers can’t observe him objectively.  

Very perceptive comments, yht11.
I think Nick's former tv girlfriend had a similar experience with him and choose a guy that also exuded a similar air of moral superiority.
I said it up thread, but turning away from Nick seems to fill a need in these woman for more traditional, gender specific, submissive role playing.
And once in the role, they must deny the part of themselves which ever considered or was turned on to Nick to appease their bully boyfriends/fiancees...
A choice they will NO DOUBT live to regret.

[MonicaJM2001]

I have to admit that I never gave Nick much thought last season, but have grown to really like him on this season. I don’t think Nick is completely innocent; his “Eskimo brothers” comment was ill advised, but I understand where it came from. I don’t doubt that the producers had a hand in this—likely telling him that Shawn was voicing his distaste for him to Kaitlyn. They are probably also aware that Nick has tendency to overanalyze—causing him to get in over his head. In many ways I find him endearing and relatable.

Nick and Kaitlyn are not compatible long-term, but I like their interactions. Nick treats her as an equal; he never forces her to prove her “worth” to him. Their interactions sharply contrast those with “the other guy,” who exudes an air of moral superiority. I don’t quite understand those that view Nick as arrogant because I think he repeatedly demonstrates humility. It’s rather unfortunate that many viewers can’t observe him objectively.  

Very perceptive comments, yht11.
I think Nick's former tv girlfriend had a similar experience with him and choose a guy that also exuded a similar air of moral superiority.
I said it up thread, but turning away from Nick seems to fill a need in these woman for more traditional, gender specific, submissive role playing.
And once in the role, they must deny the part of themselves which ever considered or was turned on to Nick to appease their bully boyfriends/fiancees...
A choice they will NO DOUBT live to regret.

Very true. It is just so bizarre to me to think that a woman or anyone would thrive/desire to be in a relationship where someone else, in this instant, a man, is controlling/superior and being treated as an equal is something to fear/reject.

[happygolucky]

***snipped*** Secondly, I do not see the manipulative man that others see.  I see a guy who pretty much wears his heart on his sleeve obvious to anyone with their eyes open.  He is transparent.  There has been talk about his "deceitful" body language and "creepy, shifty" eye contact.  Again, I see a nervous guy who talks with his hands and has a nervous tick which causes him to touch his face when he starts to question himself.  His poker tell would be touching his face...more specifically his mouth when he gets nervous.  He also leans on his hand towards the other person when he is engaging.  His eye contact strikes me as his way of making it obvious that he is fully listening to his partner.  He looks dead on his partners eyes when he is engaged, but looks away when unsure of if his feelings are being reciprocated or if he is expressing himself clearly.

All these strike me as normal expressions of body language.  Actually quite sincere and honest.***snipped***

Beautifully written again your way of describing Nick just touches my heart . He truly is a gem that one lucky lady will cherish the rest of her life.

  with both  ... responding to some posts behind, who brought up Nick's confidence or lack of (something he supposedly said): The below comment might not seem as an answer, but IMO, his confidence has a lot to do with it... because of the uncertainty and the sense of being "played".
I'm a Libra, the same as Nick. Honestly I don't know what is "typical" of Libras, but one thing I encounter most often is their ability to weight all the options (what are scales for otherwise?) ... so Libras are usually the thinkers, intellectuals, analytical and concerned with relationships ... they seek balance, which means they are inclined to be just/fair ... and they seek that in others too... they usually want to mend the world (themselves and others) - (those who got to know a little bit of me privately, now you know, this is my excuse) - they are an "air" sign ... so I often picture people being a bit airy, seeing the world through their glasses, like floating "above" and some can criticize them for not being in touch with the reality.
That's why they seek and require of everyone around to be honest with them ... as they try to be honest themselves with what they perceive to be true.
For me dishonesty is one of the most hurtful things if it's aimed at me personally, if I choose to lie (it causes me lots of grief and pain) ... and if me or someone I like is accused of, especially if I feel it's unfairly. I believe the same goes for Nick too. So you can imagine why/ how strongly I felt last year "to defend" him ... and I still feel for him. But I made peace with the fact that many people won't see that "light" in this man's heart, as I experience the cruel reality in my daily life too.

GA - Thanks ... such a small world and so vast and different at the same time ... and usually people (me) start to appreciate it when seen from "afar"   for all your work on this forum, for your time (and edit).  

[happygolucky]

Last year I thought we share the birthday, so I posted the wrong date. If from his accounts is to be believed, his B-day is on 28th of Sept. ... So here is from the page of The secret language of Birthdays (sorry for long post)

28th September = The Day of the Heartbreakers (how appropriate, JMO)
Traits...
romantic / tasteful / magnetic / destructive / complacent / excessive / attractive / exacting / cool / indecisive / scathing / repressed
Meditation (advised):
Nietzsche was fond of saying that acts of love take place beyond good and evil

Personality of this day...
   Those born on September 28 are highly capable of winning and keeping the affections of those whom they desire. This does not necessarily mean that they are physically more beautiful than others, but rather that they have a kind of seductive charm which can melt a cold heart and send one’s blood rushing. Sometimes they can be extremely exasperating and upsetting, but this again is part of their stimulative power.

   September 28 people display a talent for inflicting pain which matches their ability to please. Which they effect depends on the mood they are in, or sometimes on their occupation or primary interest. In all fairness to them, their scorecard usually shows that they suffer at least as much as those with whom they are involved. In this respect they can appear disarmingly simple and human.

   Those born on this day often have many lovers over the years, at least in their younger days, and are rarely fully satisfied by any of them. Saying they are difficult to please is not exactly true, but rather that over the long haul they tend to bore easily or allow personal differences to get on their nerves. It is fortunate that they are not by nature calculating people, at least in terms of grand schemes, otherwise they would be quite deadly. Taken up with love, seduction and sex (usually in that order) for their own sake, their motives are rarely underhanded and although they could easily take advantage of others consciously or unconsciously, they rarely permit themselves to do so.

   Destruction can be an important theme in the lives of September 28 people, running the gamut from romantic heartbreaking to intellectual brain-bashing to physical pounding. This, again, does not imply sadistic intent at all. It is simply that their role seems to be to break down the defenses of others, which they accomplish with a varied array of weapons. As irresistible forces they may meet their match when they encounter immovable objects.

   But those born on this day are drawn toward challenges of all types and do not consider a struggle even worth their time unless enacted with a powerful adversary. Lovers of beauty, as well as strength, they are helpless when confronted with highly sensual people, art or natural phenomena. They might even be said to worship beauty, and in this respect must beware of elevating their love object or even themselves to a godlike position.

   Although those born on this day do not sound as if they are at all suited to family life, they can make dependable family members. Loyal to the extreme, they will rarely if ever forsake a friend in need. Yet those who live with or are involved with them must understand their particular attractive powers as well as their weaknesses. Often September 28 people do not have a lot of willpower; in the face of their passions, they are like a leaf blown in the wind. Nonetheless, when they sin it is usually with a full awareness of what they are doing.
Health...
   Those born on September 28 will want to look good. However, their passions may tend to undermine their health. Therefore they should make an effort to keep their diet in bounds, which can be difficult for them because their craving for rich and aesthetically beautiful or exotic dishes is strong. Drinking and smoking come all too naturally to many September 28 people, and these can cause great damage to their health over the long run. Birth control methods of all types should be used with great care by September 28 women. Both sexes must be particularly careful about sexually transmitted diseases.
Numerology...
   Those born on the 28th of the month are ruled by the number 1 (2+8=10, 1+0=1), and by the Sun. Those ruled by the number 1 are typically individual, highly opinionated, and eager to rise to the top. Because September 28 people tend to be romantic types (emphasized by Venus’s rulership of their astrological sign Libra), they must beware of being distracted from their life’s purpose by their propensity to charm and seduce. The Sun symbolizes strong creative energy and fire, which is best kept flowing steadily rather than allowed to sporadically flare out of control.
Archetype...
   The 1st card of the Major Arcana is The Magician, who symbolizes intellect, communication, information and magic. Over his head is an infinity symbol, which in some Tarot decks takes the form of a hat, in others a halo. Many interpretations may be drawn, one of which is that the Magician recognizes the cyclical and unending nature of life and is empowered by this understanding. The positive traits suggested by this first card include diplomatic skill and shrewdness but, negatively, lack of scruples and opportunism. The choice rests with the September 28 person whether to exercise his/her seductive power with honesty, kindness and restraint.
- source: http://www.thesecretlanguage.com/report/personology/?r=00000928

[OnePromise]

To Nick:
If the spoilers are true and you left the FRC without Kaitlyn, I have a few thoughts about the ATFR.

As a fan of yours, I am sure that you would like nothing more than to openly share your thoughts at the ATRF regarding both your relationship with K and your lack of friendship with S.  However, I believe that your best move is to stay silent.  

The producers will make it seem very tempting too express your side of the story by disguising it as being honest and truthful...for your benefit...K and S benefit...the viewers benefit.  Please do not be swayed by this thinking.  It will only serve to work against you.  They simply want an explosive show and will do anything to get it.  

There are three types of viewers: Nick fans, Nick "h*ters" and those on the fence.  Your fans are loyal and will support you no matter what you say in your own defense.  Those that are not teamNick will discount any and everything that leaves your lips.  It is useless to try to share your views with this group as their minds are unlikely to be changed.  And for the last group...those on the fence, your best plan is stay quiet.  

Why? In my opinion, it is much better to allow others to defend your honor.  If you say nothing in your own defense, it allows others to speak about your true character and in doing so reveal the genuine Nick that your fans have seen for over a year.  

And to the question of why should you care what any of the viewers think?  

Well, that is a great question.  You shouldn't.  Our opinions of you don't matter at all.  The truth of your character is what matters.  Be You. Right? Live life without regret.  Without excuse.  In my opinion, the best way to showcase your true character is to humbly bow out, stay silent and let your character speak for itself.  Let your throngs of devoted fans speak for you.  Let your actions (or lack thereof) speak louder than your words ever could.

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