Nick Viall - Bachelorette 11 - *Spoilers - Sleuthing* - Discussion #5

Lucas ... I agree and see your POV.
I'm questioning the US version for being so "forward"... so I don't know if they could ever accept the show lacking "the promise" ... maybe not of an actual marriage, but some strong commitment kind. And that's not even an issue - since if 2 people fall for each-other, it will happen naturally - I have more of a problem about this whole "I'm falling in love"/"I'm in love" gushing that goes on throughout the season (not just this one) and it's not much "realistic" to me. (in that regard NZ version was refreshing)

About audience's investment in Nick's "future" (if ever TB) - I'm sincerely questioning whether their "dislike" is greater than them "not caring enough" for him to stick through another season?

I personally don't want him on this show EVER again. I don't know what is his take on this whole show, people involved in-front of the camera and behind the scenes. He sure puts a pretty face on when dealing with them, but (for all the manip. talk that was said so far) I could question the reality of his feelings towards this world.
I count myself his "fan", but maybe not "big enough" to be crazy about him for round 3. and maybe "big enough" to want the best for him (which I don't se TPTB to be), so I won't be buying the book he could be writing, or T-shirts he could be selling or Bach gig he could be leading.
... I like "my" entertainment as long it is "free" ... I only pay for an art piece.

I base my opinion only on what I believe about Nick and Kaitlyn as individual people:

IMO, Kaitlyn wouldn't fall for Nick's character if it wasn't for this show and by that I don't mean TPTB "introducing them", but TPTB bringing Nick on and Kaitlyn having him there (NYC) flesh&blood ... Who would have said no on the spot?
Yes, she clearly was flirty with him before the show, she most likely initiated it, but IMHO ... in the back of her mind ... she always knew there won't be a "future". I see it as a nice, spare-time activity, when a girl likes to play without having to get serious. And because Nick is very "sensible" and a good listener, with a wit similar to hers, they got along just fine. But I don't think they got much further than that. At least not on Kaitlyn's side.
She might have used Nick for some "advice sharing" regarding the show/gig and for some "confidence boost" when she needed to feel desired and appreciated (more than somebody else in the game) ... but I doubt she ever actually tried to consider Nick's feelings, position and care for his personal doubts and problems. Unlikely they ever talked about "dark side of their characters" and I assume Nick never got to expose himself to her with all his "intellectual thinking", over-thinking and "worrying". Hence, she didn't know about Nick's point of view regarding sex-talk (former ATFR), she didn't know how strongly he felt for her ... or maybe she did, but the geo-distance between them reassured her, that she would never have to face it ... until he came on the show.

But he came on "too late" ... she already found a guy among the guys, who actually had all the attributes she actually is attracted to. Still for the sake of the show and in all fairness to herself, she tried to explore "what could have been" with Nick. I do believe certain Nick's traits and "skills" were/are attractive to Kaitlyn and she's appreciative of him. Because he was there and because he was obvious about how much he likes her, desires her and finds her "a whole package". Any woman likes to hear it, feel it and experience that kind of enthusiasm.
But once she dives into the meat of Nick's character, I believe she doesn't find the "grip". And I don't consider Nick a meaningless, "just-talk-no-substance" person, but I believe Kaitlyn finds fascinating other kinds of personalities. Or at least when it comes to love-relationships. I see Kaitlyn as someone who wants a partner next to her to "carry her load", who uplifts her days and doesn't make her "think too much".

In a way, I see both Nick & Kait as 2 self-sufficient people, both self-satisfied and selfish, may I say, but while Nick is very self-critical, Kaitlyn prefers to be "unaware". Also they both like the challenge. But while Nick seeks the balance, because he is already destructive, exacting and demanding in his nature, Kaitlyn is provoking and at times inattentive, but also emotionally needy. So IMO, they would not be much of a good match in a long run.

I honestly believe there could had been a good friendship between Kaitlyn and Nick ... if they would not "mess it up" with infatuation and later with sex (with all the story). Now, I believe the foundation wasn't built pre-show, it got shaken during the show and after this ... I don't know how much it's worth to pursue ... I mean, the world is so beautiful, because it's so big, that there are other possibilities and souls out there.

So to conclude, I wouldn't wish for Nick&Kaitlyn coupling, because it wouldn't last ... so Kaitlyn not choosing Nick as F1 isn't her mistake, she isn't to blame, IMO, she just might have done the best service to herself and Nick.

Wishing for her to have different taste "in men", would be wishing for her to have different personality (that is attracted to another type of personality) ... and then she wouldn't be Kaitlyn.

I wish for Nick to learn a bit more about the kind of women he "needs", because I get the feeling he keeps being attracted to women who have similar traits and for some reason usually it brings more trouble to him than not.

I feel he gets stimulation and seeks excitement in the challenges, but maybe he should try a less challenged relationship that can still be challengeable.

- JMO

Well said happygolucky!!

Sarah Herron made a point when Nick came on the show

@sarahherron: Guess Nick has a type

Nick needs to re-evaluate his type, certain traits that he gets attracted to ultimately may not necessarily be what is right fit for his personality type

Yes. I think primarily he should look for a woman who is not selfish.
Both Andi and Kaitlyn are ... so is Nick ... and being selfish is a broad term, because it doesn't manifest the same way and in all spectrum of sb's life ... but in the relationships.
In union of 2 people there's no room for both selfish individuals. It's nothing "wrong" being ambitious and want the best, have your own saying and live your life the way you want it ... but there needs to be an equilibrium... and in these 2 relationships on the show there wasn't ... women usually had an upper hand, not just for being the Bette, and over time that wouldn't bode well with Nick.

Happy,

As always, interested in your perspective…

Of course I haven’t watched the show yet, but based on the previews I’ve seen and what people have observed, I think K was actually interested in Nick. Her reactions to having him join the season and inviting him to her room before the FS suggest more than friends interest.
I do agree however that K, like Nick’s other tv girlfriend, seems to gravitate towards a more traditional, gender based relationship; strong male driving the relationship, etc… and so is ultimately more comfortable with the other guy.

As far as Nick’s future, I agree….

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana

“I've got news for Mr. Santayana: we're doomed to repeat the past no matter what. That's what it is to be alive.” ― Kurt Vonnegut

"The Wise Learn from Adversity; the Foolish Repeat it." - Proverb

mysthelma wrote:Nick needs to re-evaluate his type, certain traits that he gets attracted to ultimately may not necessarily be what is right fit for his personality type

I think N loves the extrovert that K exudes. But as he would have figured out soon enough..he really just loves this trait the most in small doses. He loved MeAndis ability to get him but he soon learned .... Her interest in anyone or anything that doesn't put her front and center has no place in her world. Unfortunately, he's figured out more of what he needs and wants in front of millions. But, the rewards for him seem to far out weigh anyone's opiníon. With that in mind, I've come to the conclusion....so be it.

mysthelma wrote:Nick needs to re-evaluate his type, certain traits that he gets attracted to ultimately may not necessarily be what is right fit for his personality type

^^^ This

If I recall correctly Nick told Andi about two prior relationships - one long term that took him a long time to get over when she broke up with him, one shorter term when he got engaged - and she broke up with him. Then Andi, and now Kaitlyn. That's 4 relationships in a row where Nick was at least to some degree "in love" but in which the girl broke up with him. To me that strongly suggests he's either looking for the wrong type of girl or he's looking in the wrong place - and The Bachelorette sure doesn't seem to be the right place.
JMHO

For whatever reason, Nick is attracted to women who are looking for a strong, protective man in the classic Jane Austen way. Not sure why he's so into these women but he doesn't fit their desires so things don't work out. Jmo.

Last year's lead didn't work out with her type and if this year's lead doesn't marry her type then I guess maybe the women are the ones who are not realizing that Nick is the type of person they should choose. TWT. jmo

Lucas15 wrote:

mysthelma wrote:Nick needs to re-evaluate his type, certain traits that he gets attracted to ultimately may not necessarily be what is right fit for his personality type

^^^ This

If I recall correctly Nick told Andi about two prior relationships - one long term that took him a long time to get over when she broke up with him, one shorter term when he got engaged - and she broke up with him. Then Andi, and now Kaitlyn. That's 4 relationships in a row where Nick was at least to some degree "in love" but in which the girl broke up with him. To me that strongly suggests he's either looking for the wrong type of girl or he's looking in the wrong place - and The Bachelorette sure doesn't seem to be the right place.
JMHO

I agree with you but the two girls he did have realationships with are still his friends of his. I just think it is hard for any bachelor to find a woman after they have been on this show to know if they are really are in it for them or because they were on the show.

But I have no doubt that he will find his true love one day.

I think with K it was much easier for him to get over her . He seems to be in a happy place right now. JMO

AllAboutLove wrote:Last year's lead didn't work out with her type and if this year's lead doesn't marry her type then I guess maybe the women are the ones who are not realizing that Nick is the type of person they should choose. TWT. jmo

Attraction just doesn't work like that though. They're attracted to something else. I don't know how they can change that, barring therapy or something. Jmo.