Nick Viall - Bachelorette 11 - *Spoilers - Sleuthing* - Discussion #5

^^^ No disagree. He is not in love with kaitlyn imo. Like alanna said enough for a hook-up but not much more. He seemed so different last season when he was with Andi. He is very "chill." All imho. Glad he is over it and seems happy and has moved on. ;)

soccermom333 wrote:^^^ No disagree.  He is not in love with kaitlyn imo.  Like alanna said enough for a hook-up but not much more.  He seemed so different last season when he was with Andi.  He is very "chill."  All imho.  Glad he is over it and seems happy and has moved on.  ;)

I would put him and Shawn at the same level of love. I think that they have all gotten way too caught up in lust and it is clouding anything else. JMO.

I think it's hard to compare the two, because a) Nick was a total novice last year, and now he's more aware of producer manipulation and the lead lying to him; he seems much more careful to me this season and b) Kaitlyn and Andi are such different people, it makes sense to me that his dynamic with both of them would be different. Also, he probably knows Kaitlyn a lot more than he ever knew Andi, considering they allegedly FT-ed every day for months. If he still had a "huge crush" on her, like Sharleen said, and was obsessed with her, like that radio host said, it means it was based on actual substance, not the Bachelor Bubble influence.

It'll be interesting to see how he reacts when he gets rejected. Like, will it just be a blow to the ego or will be noticeably heartbroken? I'm thinking the latter just because of what Ali said about the finale being so good. I have a feeling people will be surprised at the intensity of his devastation.

Good points! they did have an established friendship, but I still wonder if he will be devastated? I hope not; this time the guys are verbally telling him she is all about Shawn and he has never said the "i love you", just that he is falling in love. His ITMs seem so very stilted this time around.

I'm very annoying, I know, but let me take this "glorious moment", since I rarely come across these days Link:

TB Show-Viewer writes about Nick online: You suck
(JMO: that's the general commentary for over a year)
Nick himself responds: noted

SV writes about Nick online - again: Literally you suck
(JMO: Really? ... You mean he is going down and knows how to please a woman? - sorry, too R-rated?)
then "she" notices Nick's response and writes back...

SV: Ugh sorry this is awkward now.
(JMO: You say?)

Nick himself responds: no worries... I don't take it personally. Enjoy your day
(JMO: aaahhh, he uses ellipsis too, way to go Nick)

SV replies: I feel bad now can we make peace

JMO: thank you TB Show-Viewer for your "public step back" and "peace offering"
not that the later is necessary, because Nick was never in war with you ...
but that you acknowledge that some harsh criticism of Nick's TV character (that is actually a real human) might be a bit too much (for whatever personal reason).

In Nick's style "no need to feel bad.. it's all good" I take this a small victory for the last year.
Thank you.

chasingpavements wrote:It'll be interesting to see how he reacts when he gets rejected. Like, will it just be a blow to the ego or will be noticeably heartbroken? I'm thinking the latter just because of what Ali said about the finale being so good. I have a feeling people will be surprised at the intensity of his devastation.

My guess is that he will be noticeably heartbroken - less because of what Ali said (I think by now she's far enough out of the loop that she's more guessing than possessing actual knowledge, but she does know "how it works" and her guesses are more likely to be right than wrong) but because of something Jason said in a podcast just after the end of Ashley's season.

Jason said that the producers hype you up with things like "You have this one in the bag. Will you invite me to your wedding? You guys are going to make beautiful babies!" All of course lies because they know the F2 is going to get dumped - but they want heartbreak to be palpable to viewers so they do everything they can to make F2 believe they are "the one".

IMO Nick is more aware of producer manipulation this season than he was on Andi's season because he's already been on the receiving end but I think the big difference is that on her season Andi let him go before the FRC. He's probably going to be thinking that if Kaitlyn doesn't let him go before the FRC then it's because he's F1. IMO this may well be why the producers decided to do it this way this season - it's the best way to trick him into believing he's F1.
JMHO

^^^and perfect setup/audition for next Bachelor a la Jason and Ben

MVMom39forever wrote:^^^and perfect setup/audition for next Bachelor a la Jason and Ben

Well they've certainly done that before. IMO with Ben it was the argument to Ashley that they needed a proposal from Ben and a rejection as a setup for the next lead role that got her to go along with letting Ben propose. From what I heard at the time she agreed to do it as long as Ben knew she would not accept and they told her it was all taken care of. They lied to her and she only realized this after she saw Ben's reaction. They could have done the same thing to Kaitlyn to get her to play along with a proposal from Nick; I try to never underestimate how good the producers are at manipulating people and situations to get what they want, but they are IMO not very innovative - "if it's not broke - don't fix it" - so if they have something that's worked in the past they'll do the same thing again.
JMHO

MVMom ... maybe you're right.
Until now I haven't considered that TPTB would actually contemplate Nick for TB, despite what everyone was saying. To me the edit they chose for him in the first season and the edit they continue to give him with the second season, along with the media coverage and continuous insinuation that he is not completely sincere in his actions/words, lead me to believe that they like "using" Nick for stirring the pot, for creating the discussion and enliven the situation among the rest of the cast. But not to actually place him in the running, because he is "universally" (generally) disliked.

But then I see this season... when the generally liked "girl" gets "everyone's" vote for the Bette gig ... the viewers like her, they want her ...
and then comes Her season ... and TPTB make sure she is "put down", "shamed" and her actions questionable/disliked ...

... so I can actually imagine now, that they might have no problem to turn up with the season where the lead starts with a "disadvantage", being generally disliked and with a questionable motive ... no more "I'm looking for a wife and I see her in this room" kind a guy ... just "have fun and see where it goes"? ... Maybe

Are we sure TPTB don't care for the "engagement promise" from the start?
Maybe if they go with the NZ version? ... but ...Are we sure "America" is OK with that?

happygolucky wrote:Are we sure TPTB don't care for the "engagement promise" from the start?
Maybe if they go with the NZ version? ... but ...Are we sure "America" is OK with that?

IMO there are several reasons I don't think they care for an "engagement promise" as an ending:

1 - I look at all the little back stories where they have tried very hard to get an actual engagement at the end. Offering to pay JPG to propose to Nikki at the ATFR is but one example of this.
2 - There have been about 30 seasons or so from the franchise and all but a very few have ended in an engagement.
3 - The show "works" and has survived much longer than anyone ever anticipated because people get "invested" in the outcome.

We only need to open just about any page of this forum to see just how invested we are - it doesn't matter if viewers are invested in favor of or opposed to the lead's choice - as long as they "care" one way or the other. I have heard (so long ago I couldn't begin to find it) that someone analyzed this and concluded that viewers see an engagement at the end as an indication that what they just watched for the last two months is "real" and worth getting invested in it - the lack of an engagement makes it all seem pointless and a waste of their time.

Personally I happen to think this is right. Though a bit harder to find here you really don't have to dig too far to find someone expressing the opinion that they want to see an engagement and a happy couple at the ATFR even if they believe they will break up shortly thereafter. That ending is closure for viewers - a reason to come back again and a "promise to date" just doesn't make it as enough of a reason to get invested and care about the outcome.

Until now I haven't considered that TPTB would actually contemplate Nick for TB, despite what everyone was saying.

I don't think that they are for a number of reasons - too many to dig into for me right now - but one of them is I don't think they want a lead who is polarizing - that works well for a contestant but IMO they want a lead that all viewers can get invested in and want to see find love. But I guess we never know - they seem to have departed from the norm quite a bit this season so maybe someone might think that a viewer invested to see Nick find love and a viewer invested to see him get dumped on national TV for a 3rd time is still an invested viewer.

They did use a "3rd time (in love) is a charm" theme to promote Jason's season; of course the 3rd time was Melissa ...
JMHO

There is one thing if nothing else, IMO that is very apparent when it comes to Nick. If nothing else, if he likes you and enjoys your company he becomes VERY invested. Nick is many things but role playing is not his thing at all. I think Andi and K both would vouch for how serious N is when emotions start to churn. There's no way MF hasn't noticed which scenes/times the ratings have spiked. Call N what you want...but he does bring the real when it comes to the supposed plot of the ette.

mprssdbyu wrote:There is one thing if nothing else, IMO that is very apparent when it comes to Nick. If nothing else, if he likes you and enjoys your company he becomes VERY invested. Nick is many things but role playing is not his thing at all. I think Andi and K both would vouch for how serious N is when emotions start to churn. There's no way MF hasn't noticed which scenes/times the ratings have spiked. Call N what you want...but he does bring the real when it comes to the supposed plot of the ette.

Can you imagine if Nick hadn't showed up? Kaitlyn would probably have had Shawn, Ben, and Jared as final 3. Shawn would still have gone to her room upset over Jared getting the rose he thought he deserved but no showdown between him and one of these two guys in the end. If anything sweet Ben and sweet Jared should be thanking their lucky stars and Nick for saving them the heartache.