Nick Viall - Bachelorette 11 - *Spoilers - Sleuthing* - Discussion #5

mprssdbyu wrote:I do believe their answers are rehearsed as much as they can be! As we've all learned, K is an in the moment girl. Somehow until last night, I had not seen the actual actual snapgate in its entirety. When I saw N on the boat with nothing but women around him on 4th, I knew.

While Nick is a very complex guy, he does bring the viewers with him. Will ABC ignore these ratings for next lead? I have to wonder with the new beard, the photoshoots ...the edit. How much screen time is anyone really getting outside of K and S? NICK...Are they encouraging his unrelenting support of K on SM? Do I expect a brokenhearted F2 at FRC? Oh yeah, its coming and I for one don't think there was a rehearsal involved. If he behaves at ATFR portion, IMO...he could very well be doing the choosing come Nov.

If there is any way for me to be okay he got his heart broken...if the shoe was on the other foot and K was all over S and carrying on about how he made her feel...I'm not sure N could/would get past it. Dez initial fixation on Brooks don't hold a candle to the in the moments K and ITM K has with N. S loves that girl if it lasts...that much I feel certain of!

I think, Nick should get a chance to chose this time. I am not a fan, but, I think, at 34 years old, he might be ready to settle down. So, we will see. My new bach order is  Nick, Ben H, and Josh. JMO

If Nick is the next Bachelor (and I think he's definitely in the running & interested), I cannot WAIT to see reaction if he has pre-FS sex with someone, especially if it's not with his F1.

And because he is so hot, Jojo, I have a feeling this just might happen. Oh my!

Sharleen's flare blog
In real life I’m all for honesty and transparency. It sounds cliché, but to quote the elderly local gentleman at Kelly’s Irish Pub, the secret to 36 years of marriage: “Trust. That’s the trick.” However, this being a reality dating show and not real life, I have a beef with Kaitlyn’s big confession. For sanity’s sake, the more in-the-dark a contestant is, the better.

I have the utmost respect for Kaitlyn confessing to Shawn that she slept with Nick. I get that it was coming from a place of wanting to be honest with him. What she did was difficult to watch, so I can only imagine how hard it was to do. However, to make that confession while Nick is still very much in the picture makes very little sense. Firstly, it contradicts her wanting to keep the relationships separate. Secondly, not only is Nick still in the picture, but it’s now Fantasy Suite dates; sex is not an abstract speculation but most likely a sure thing. For Kaitlyn to express guilt over sex with Nick only makes sense if it weren’t going to happen again. Otherwise, if she and Shawn end up together, that can be a conversation for when the cameras aren’t around and it’s been more or less established that she had sex with other people. At that point it would be in the past; what does it matter that she had sex with Nick a little bit sooner?

It’s not entirely dissimilar to Kaitlyn telling Shawn that he was “The One” halfway through the process. With that information, it’s impossible for Shawn not to observe the other relationships and compare his interactions with Kaitlyn to the other guys’. And now, with the information that she slept with Nick, Shawn is left to fester while Kaitlyn and Nick are on their Fantasy Suite date, where they will surely have sex again. Ignorance truly can be bliss. Kaitlyn has insisted that the relationships be kept separate, but by oversharing with Shawn she forces his awareness of them. Again, I get where she’s coming from; she wanted to reassure him and prove her trustworthiness to him. But the timing of this reveal didn’t do either of them any favours.

All that said, I would bet everything that the producers suggested and pushed for that confession. After all, it was guaranteed drama, and we know by now drama means ratings. I blame them and not Kaitlyn because, all season long, I really feel she hasn’t done one thing I disagree with. She’s impulsively sent men home in the moment, long before rose ceremonies, just because she didn’t want to draw things out. (Check.) She’s shown early preference for a few select men and has a hard time faking it with others. (Check.) She’s the first lead, in my opinion, to consistently demonstrate that her position is actually not all that enviable. (Check. I literally got goosebumps when she said, “Just one hard conversation out of the way. On to the next.”) I can’t see her wanting to suddenly—needlessly!—tell Shawn that she had sex with Nick weeks earlier without a producer’s persuasion. If they want you to do something, they will find a way to convince you to do it. (Speaking of which, have you seen UnREAL yet?)

Also, note to Joe: nothing makes a woman more confident in her choice to end things with you than when you show your Jekyll/Hyde side. Suddenly becoming cold and detached doesn’t save face; grace does. Study Jared’s exemplary breakup behaviour.

We’re down to three! My predictions…

1. Shawn, 28: There are a few clues that the last man standing is Shawn. First is the very confession that I’ve been harping on. As much as I disagree with it, Kaitlyn was trying to protect and preserve future them. Also, when Shawn said he wanted to talk before accepting her rose in this week’s ceremony, she looked like she might pass out. It’s just hard to imagine this level of investment if he isn’t the man she ultimately chooses. Lastly, their chemistry. Damn.

2. Nick, 34: I was thrilled that this week we got to see more of Nick and Kaitlyn than just physical attraction. Their Cork date was much-needed respite from an otherwise torment-filled episode. And, despite the “Morning After” scene striking me as strange—I don’t think we’ve ever seen one of those before?—I was charmed by it nonetheless. I love their banter. The easy compatibility between them is clear.

Going home next week:

3. Ben, 26: Ben is so drama-free that he almost seems of a different species at this point. He and Kaitlyn are cute together and certainly seem on the same wavelength, but I don’t see the electricity between these two that Kaitlyn shares with both Shawn and Nick. Plus, based on how adorable and gosh darn likable Ben is, he has “Bachelor” written all over him.

The above post needs to have a source link included. In the future you can simply copy and paste a paragraph and then link the source thank you. I'm posting from my phone so I can't do it myself right now.

Sorry Kasha and noted
Source
@FLAREfashion: Honesty can get tricky...@sharleenjoynt recaps last night's @BacheloretteABC ---> http://t.co/jiazrbalJL http://t.co/zapK5eoFVA

I often can't put in words what I feel, so today I finally found a description that is best suited how I view Nick - when it comes to the criticism about his "manipulative / calculating / strategic ways" - so I borrow the words from another source: Link (I posted the whole article in fan's thread: whole post)

It is fortunate that they are not by nature calculating people, at least in terms of grand schemes, otherwise they would be quite deadly. Taken up with love, seduction and sex (usually in that order) for their own sake, their motives are rarely underhanded and although they could easily take advantage of others consciously or unconsciously, they rarely permit themselves to do so.
Destruction can be an important theme in the lives of September 28 people, running the gamut from romantic heartbreaking to intellectual brain-bashing to physical pounding. This, again, does not imply sadistic intent at all. It is simply that their role seems to be to break down the defenses of others, which they accomplish with a varied array of weapons. As irresistible forces they may meet their match when they encounter immovable objects.

I really can't see Nick as a calculating strategist or a manipulator as people have defined him, the same people who acknowledge Nick's intelligence.
Because if he is indeed smart enough and opportunistic enough as it is said him to be
... he would manipulate and seize every opportunity to come out of every situation as a winner - but he didn't/hasn't
... he would persuade viewers into believing he is something else (CS' image comes to my mind - the easiest "example" of deception) - not a tactic he used, since he was so honest about who he is, with all his s*** and flaws, that many don't like what they see (and that's fine)
... he would make sure to do all the right moves to "win", since that's supposedly his intention (or I don't understand people correctly? - He only wants to win, right? - Real feelings aren't in play on his side?)
... he would had been quiet at the previous ATFR and tried to "play nice" (since the whole season he witnessed himself being portrayed as a "villain") ... since he is very much media savvy (even his critics recognize that)

... so if Nick is this grand manipulator ... why "everyone" isn't manipulated by him?
(Oh, yes, sorry, we should be the smartest ones.)

I don't think Nick is a calculating strategist or a master manipulator but I think it's human nature to sometimes act that way.

I firmly believe that his comment at the ATFR was not calculated....I believe that it was said "in the heat of the moment" and without thought for how it would sound/come across. Which goes perfectly with this part: their role seems to be to break down the defenses of others. I believe he was trying to break her down to get her to understand him. Not maliciously.

I don't believe he's trying to "win", manipulate, or deceive anyone...I believe he is a hopeless romantic and his tactics, as innocent as they are "to him", often come across as destructive and underhanded "to others". But I do feel he's passive aggressive, which if I had to deal with on a daily basis would cause me to not be able to stand him. But because it's just on my tv screen and has no bearing on my life, doesn't drive me crazy. Instead I think it's interesting to watch.

Chris H is finally defending Nick

Source TV guide

leselihau ITA ... completely... from A to Z.

I often say that I'm very similar to Nick (I believe to be and thus I feel to understand him) ... and I admit ... that there are times I can't stand myself and I acknowledge to make a life a "living hell" for people closest to me ... so I share your view on passive aggressive and him trying to make "her" understand his side.

No one is ever truly 100% understood. Nick to me from viewpoint is a hopeless romantic, looking for love, and he is the what you see is what you get.He realizes he's under a microscope and he's being his true self with Kaitlyn. Manipulator I don't see and think his motives are pure.When he is with Kaitlyn I see her as relaxed and calm, rather than tensed with other guy.They have a mutual mature relationship, without manipulation,and ease. I feel like it's not a competition for him but a reality.Kaitlyn will one day look back and see the real relationship, for now she's blinded by impulse.

I totally agree fab girl. ^ ^ ^ Excellent reflections!