Nick Viall - Bachelorette 11 - *Spoilers - Sleuthing* - Discussion #5

I actually didn't see anything negative about what CH/CM said. It doesn't come across to me at all like his throwing Nick under the bus. He even states Nick is not a bad guy and doesn't even fall on the scale of villains.

So to me... I don't see anything negative about what he said about Nick. It is exactly how it is. It's the show.. it doesn't allow for a guy like to thrive and that's not his fault. Neither is it his fault that the other guys get so jealous. CH also explains why the women are still drawn to him despite the guys jealousy which touches on how women react differently than men to someone like Nick. jmo

AllAboutLove wrote:I actually didn't see anything negative about what CH/CM said. It doesn't come across to me at all like his throwing Nick under the bus. He even states Nick is not a bad guy and doesn't even fall on the scale of villains.

So to me... I don't see anything negative about what he said about Nick. It is exactly how it is. It's the show.. it doesn't allow for a guy like to thrive and that's not his fault. Neither is it his fault that the other guys get so jealous. CH also explains why the women are still drawn to him despite the guys jealousy which touches on how women react differently than men to someone like Nick. jmo

He also referred that Nick cannot be trusted to keep private things private (laraphrased) and justified Shawn's behavior. It is better to read the entire interview to get a sense of where CH is going with it.

So both Kait and CH think Nick is untrustworthy essentially.

It boggles my mind that she slept with him when she thinks he's so untrustworthy and is obsessed with him telling "their secret" to Shawn. Who has sex with someone when you don't trust them at all?? KAIT.LYN. Please report to the principal's office for your brainwashing. SMH.

Like K said on the mariachi date in San Antonio Nick is comfortable in who he is and does not apologise for that and his actions, that kind of confidence translate to some as smug or corky. Yes I can see guys who are less confident would have an issue with him, that is their problem.

Hell I like me a confident, smug, corky man that is a turn on. Well some women like their men very accessible and likeable by everyone, to each their own. Love me some lone wolf Nick V

remockered wrote:

AllAboutLove wrote:I actually didn't see anything negative about what CH/CM said. It doesn't come across to me at all like his throwing Nick under the bus. He even states Nick is not a bad guy and doesn't even fall on the scale of villains.

So to me... I don't see anything negative about what he said about Nick. It is exactly how it is. It's the show.. it doesn't allow for a guy like to thrive and that's not his fault. Neither is it his fault that the other guys get so jealous. CH also explains why the women are still drawn to him despite the guys jealousy which touches on how women react differently than men to someone like Nick. jmo

He also referred that Nick cannot be trusted to keep private things private (laraphrased) and justified Shawn's behavior.  It is better to read the entire interview to get a sense of where CH is going with it.

Hmm.. I guess I never interpreted it like that even with the entirety of the interview.

A lot is being based on last season so of course that has to be alluded to but CH never straight up said he is not to be trusted.

In fact, I doubt CH would say Nick is not a bad guy and not even a villain if Nick wasn't to be trusted... because that is a bad guy, imo which CH is saying Nick is not a bad guy.

CH to me was being fair about both guys, and even said that while Shawn's behavior is not needy he is very high maintenance and that if it continues that way (and CH says it will as it is a theme of the show) then it may get negative.

AllAboutLove wrote:snipped,,

Harrison: There's something about Nick -- and it's so hard to put a finger on it -- but he bugs people. If you think about it, he's not a bad guy, and in the world of Bachelor evilness, he doesn't rank on the scale. There are things you can take issue with ... but man does he rub everyone the wrong way. He has this way of saying or doing the wrong thing at the wrong time, and I don't know if it's the attitude, but it's like nails on a chalkboard to people. But it's not like that to women, which is the other thing that really drives guys crazy, especially the effect he has on Kaitlyn. That is frustrating and drives jealousy.

http://www.tvguide.com/news/bachelorette-kaitlyn-shawn-nick/

CH just wants to be like Nick when he grows up.

GuardianAngel wrote:

AllAboutLove wrote:snipped,,

Harrison: There's something about Nick -- and it's so hard to put a finger on it -- but he bugs people. If you think about it, he's not a bad guy, and in the world of Bachelor evilness, he doesn't rank on the scale. There are things you can take issue with ... but man does he rub everyone the wrong way. He has this way of saying or doing the wrong thing at the wrong time, and I don't know if it's the attitude, but it's like nails on a chalkboard to people. But it's not like that to women, which is the other thing that really drives guys crazy, especially the effect he has on Kaitlyn. That is frustrating and drives jealousy.

http://www.tvguide.com/news/bachelorette-kaitlyn-shawn-nick/

CH just wants to be like Nick when he grows up.

So does RS.

Mehn this forum cracks me up sometimes. The way we get attached and obsessed with these Bach/bette golks and defend them and their actions like we actually know them is insane. You got to laugh at it. I am sure these people are not the same in real life. When you are on a show with cameras you gotta admit each one of them are acting and playing their role through the producers machinations.

AllAboutLove wrote:Ultimately the problem is, and I posted this before, Nick is on a show where the pack mentality prevails and it would be extremely unlikely that a lead female would choose a lone wolf instead of an alpha because she would have to isolate herself from the group to do so and it would backfire. It's why, as much as people say otherwise, I always thought Nick was better suited for The Bachelor where he is the lone wolf and the females need not worry about other guys (pack) rather than the Bette, where I don't think he would be F1 no matter what - the environment is just not conducive to who he is.  jmo

And IMO this is exactly on point. Guys in a group will compete for one woman according to instinctive behavior patterns. The alpha get's the prize and breeding rights and the omegas get to live. That's instinctive and I don't really expect this to be readily understandable to women because their instincts are different (but instinctively are probably going to be attracted to an alpha). Nick in a pack of guys is bad news and even badder if the alpha wants the woman.

And the thought has also occurred to me that Nick would do much better as The Bachelor than he ever will do on The Bachelorette - but the problem could be that as the lead he isn't going to deliver the ratings gold that he does on The Bachelorette because he won't bring the kind of drama that the show wants.

Lucas15 wrote:

AllAboutLove wrote:Ultimately the problem is, and I posted this before, Nick is on a show where the pack mentality prevails and it would be extremely unlikely that a lead female would choose a lone wolf instead of an alpha because she would have to isolate herself from the group to do so and it would backfire. It's why, as much as people say otherwise, I always thought Nick was better suited for The Bachelor where he is the lone wolf and the females need not worry about other guys (pack) rather than the Bette, where I don't think he would be F1 no matter what - the environment is just not conducive to who he is.  jmo

And IMO this is exactly on point. Guys in a group will compete for one woman according to instinctive behavior patterns. The alpha get's the prize and breeding rights and the omegas get to live. That's instinctive and I don't really expect this to be readily understandable to women because their instincts are different (but instinctively are probably going to be attracted to an alpha). Nick in a pack of guys is bad news and even badder if the alpha wants the woman.

And the thought has also occurred to me that Nick would do much better as The Bachelor than he ever will do on The Bachelorette - but the problem could be that as the lead he isn't going to deliver the ratings gold that he does on The Bachelorette because he won't bring the kind of drama that the show wants.

Funny thing about Nick and ratings gold... when looking at the ratings in the key demographics, the ratings are highest when Nick came on the show and when Nick was sexgate.

As for bringing drama for The Bachelor? The women do that themselves. And even CH has said that the women are so into Nick, like a moth to the flame, so I could see them really driving the drama for the lone wolf. He won't even need to to anything, just be himself and they will be causing all kinds of havoc between themselves. If he can cause havoc with just one girl, imagine 25.

I burst out laughing when I read this GuardianAngel!!!
"CH just wants to be like Nick when he grows up."

Right on AllAboutLove!!!
"As for bringing drama for The Bachelor? The women do that themselves. And even CH has said that the women are so into Nick, like a moth to the flame, so I could see them really driving the drama for the lone wolf. He won't even need to to anything, just be himself and they will be causing all kinds of havoc between themselves. If he can cause havoc with just one girl, imagine 25."
Lovin the forum today.....

mysthelma wrote:Mehn this forum cracks me up sometimes. The way we get attached and obsessed with these Bach/bette golks and defend them and their actions like we actually know them is insane. You got to laugh at it. I am sure these people are not the same in real life. When you are on a show with cameras you gotta admit each one of them are acting and playing their role through the producers machinations.

So true.  They probably laugh at each other off camera.  It even looks, at times, as if Nick and Shawn actually like each other.  Maybe they each know their roles at the start and sex is a bonus.  I still think the reason the show works at all is because you have twenty something males deprived of sex and one female, with no technology, books, etc.  At the end of six weeks, their other heads are telling them they are in love, when it is unrequited lust.  Nick is probably the most clear -headed, because he got rid of that itch.