Nick Viall - Bachelorette 11 - *Spoilers - Sleuthing* - Discussion #5

AllAboutLove wrote:

isittrue wrote:I was a really big Nick fan last year - supported him completely with the ATFR fiasco but this year I am just not feeling it.  Post-show, he just seems so different than last time.  The change of appearance with defined muscles, beard, backward baseball hat make me feel like he is almost transformed into someone else to fit Kait's ideal.  It must be a personal issue but I guess just can't overlook the fact that he could not stay off tv  and went back on the show - it just seems hypocritical and that he had other motivations than just being there for Kait.  Still think he has an awesome family!  

Fans would know that Nick always had the muscles. It is not a new thing.
He had a beard before he even went on the show. You can see in his IG pics and he shaved it just before going on the show.
One can say that Kailtyn adopted Nick's ways as well - her tweets are similar to his and after his.

As for anything Bachelor related. He can do what he wants and it would still be less than most of these guys.
Hypocritical? Hypocritical is the guys saying he was on the show for fame and filmed BIP.
They all go on for fame. At least with Nick we have some proof he was actually interested in Kaitlyn before she was the Bachelorette.
The other guys chose to go on TV for fame and may have fallen in love.
It goes both ways.

I agree it definitely goes both ways and the other guys were def hypocritical - this is the Nick thread though.  The first time he grew the beard was when he was starting to tweet with K back in February and his muscles just seemed way more defined than they were last season.  No big deal.  I just think if you basically say that you were on tv once - it means to say that you are done with doing the show but I will agree to disagree at this point. I think I held him to higher standards because I was such a fan.

I am not sure why people think Nick has been working out just for going back this season, I thought we saw his hot body last season in a few scenes?

The steaming scene, FS date day portion where he talked with the last lead on the beach. And some other pic he posted on IG. He has the body for at least a year, not for the purpose of showing off during the second season

Yup. His body is the same.

One will always be disappointed if one holds one up to a high standard. Nick, IMO, is human... but that seems to get overlooked when he does things similar to other guys and then disappointment follows. I guess for me, I like Nick because he is human, flaws and all... and thus don't mind certain things. Why shouldn't he get out of this show what others have? I do agree that Nick's appeal is that he doesn't seem as bachelor-fame hungry but I guess I like him because he marches to his own beat, on or off the show. My only reason for him not going back on the show is because TPTB are not his friends... if he wants to do so why not? It's not like he is concerned with Twitter opinions like he has stated. jmo

isittrue wrote: I think I held him to higher standards because I was such a fan.  

   He lost a notch. Yes. But I'm kinda grateful ... I was never before a FAN of anyone, not even my favorite musicians or an artist, I never hold anyone in high regard above myself ... and last year's "hate" towards Nick and continuous criticism actually spurred in me a "defense mechanism" and I became his "avid supporter" ... so called fan. Thankfully I'm back to my "normal self". He is just one of the many, I still love and care for (from this show and with this board) ... as I possibly could for a "stranger", but he is off the pedestal where he should be, one of the many, like Italians would say "carnefice", from flesh and blood, executioner. So I don't blame him or criticize either. He's just like me, same ground.

All respect to others opinions the way I see Nick hasn't changed this season - to me he's always been human (brutal truth and disinterest in catering to the other guys' feelings being his downfall last season) he's come back having learnt his lesson imho -- he is now more tactful and goes out of his way to remove himself from situations where he'd rub the guys the wrong way. His decision to go on the show and give his relationship with k his all is nothing I would fault him on. The fact that he agreed to be inmate with K - it was an act of trust in K and while he could have stopped it and it would have been wise for him to do so -- I also don't see him rubbing it in people's noses

Alanna wrote:Kaitlyn could not care less about Nick or his feelings last night, or probably ever, beyond hooking up with him. All she cared about was that he wouldn't spill the beans to Shawn and ruin her happiness. She was sooo careless this season and I'm not even a Nick fan!

Yes, so this^. 
When you are a couple you protect each other because you are part of each other and you are protecting yourself. So there is no need to talk about not sharing intimate moments because that would never be something on the agenda of either of you. That goes without saying. 
The fact that K has to bring this up, shows she is on a totally different wave length than Nick and the fact that tears come to his eyes shows that deep down he is so aware of this. 
The fact Shawn can not sense a level of trust and surety from K shows they are not on the same wave length either. Up hill battle.

^agree!
It takes maturity to aware your own "faults" and be a better you.
I think we see how Nick turned Tanned from enemy to friends, it shows how the guys were wrong about him before getting to know him.

And I'm a hopeless romantic, therefore what I see is, a romantic guy risked so many things to try to see if Kaitlyn is his forever.

It feels like a large portion of Nick and K conversation was cut out last night.  They went from "are you going to kiss and tell?" and defensive Nick to man tears in like ten seconds.  I think there was more to the conversation than we saw. It felt like there might have been a conversation about how she felt about their relationship that went missing.  It would have gotten cut so that Nick appears only the "lust guy".  I am sensing a pattern here....

In fact in general the whole episode felt disjointed.  I know that they wanted to give the viewers a sense of chaos and confusion to experience what K and the guys were surely feeling, but it went a little overboard.  I had a hard time knowing what was going on...

I wish Nick didn't bring up sex last ATFR, I wish he didn't get on the show the second time, I wish he didn't have pre FS sex with K, but, he's a normal dude with flaws and if I were in his position, I don't know if I would have dealt with all these issues better.
I don't know him personally, but from what I see on TV and what I read from his sm, I am still a fan of Nick and support him, because he remains the same, but he's also learned some lessons from last round.
His attitude towards sex remains the same: it's more than physical but both men and women can have an emotional connection.
He ignores negative comments but will defend for his friends. He replied to people who attacked his support for his lesbian friends last year, just yesterday he defended JJ and said genuine friendship is more important to him than twitter opinions.
He doesn't appear to be cocky or over confident this time. Unlike last year, I don't think he's posted any pictures of him and K together, and doesn't seem to post any K supportive comments this past week. He probably doesn't want to be viewed as stalker again.
As for his looks, he hasn't worn the backward cap recently, and heck, maybe the beard is for the new lady (I am not even sure if there's one).
I don't think he's going back the second time for fame/attention only. Didn't US article cited an inside source that he'd contemplated this decision carefully? Didn't sleuthers figure out his interests in K before filming even started? If he truly is a fame seeker, I think he would have posted selfies constantly, showing up in many bach parties. Not that I will mind it!
Now, I wish Nick will be a bigger person and only wish K & S well on ATFR. I wish he's completely moved on, I wish he's found MS RIGHT and will stay away from this franchise.

emusha wrote:All respect to others opinions the way I see Nick hasn't changed this season - to me he's always been human

To me too ... that's not what I meant (I hope to understand isittrue's POV). I've always seen his flaws and I find them normal, like mine, so I totally get it ... what I like the most, is that he makes up for the mistakes he makes along the way, so last season in my book he didn't do anything wrong ... it was all good, because it all had a purpose and good reasons ... so even the mistakes weren't really the mistakes to talk about, since they leaded to the greater good. This year though, I find it harder to see the purpose ... and therefore I find the mistakes made very unfortunate, despite his softened edit and more people openly supporting him. That's why I wish I can laugh at the end of this season. I really wish that Nick was onto the game. And that it was worth it. For that ... I hope he reaps the best.

Kashathediva wrote:When you are a couple you protect each other because you are part of each other and you are protecting yourself. So there is no need to talk about not sharing intimate moments because that would never be something on the agenda of either of you. That goes without saying.
The fact that K has to bring this up, shows she is on a totally different wave length than Nick and the fact that tears come to his eyes shows that deep down he is so aware of this.

(and with Alanna too) ITA

Kashathediva wrote:

Alanna wrote:Kaitlyn could not care less about Nick or his feelings last night, or probably ever, beyond hooking up with him. All she cared about was that he wouldn't spill the beans to Shawn and ruin her happiness. She was sooo careless this season and I'm not even a Nick fan!

Yes, so this^. 
When you are a couple you protect each other because you are part of each other and you are protecting yourself. So there is no need to talk about not sharing intimate moments because that would never be something on the agenda of either of you. That goes without saying. 
The fact that K has to bring this up, shows she is on a totally different wave length than Nick and the fact that tears come to his eyes shows that deep down he is so aware of this. 
The fact Shawn can not sense a level of trust and surety from K shows they are not on the same wave length either. Up hill battle.

Shawn has every reason not to trust her "Hey baby, you're the one, now excuse me while I go have sex with NIck".

After last nights conversation between Kaitlyn and Nick, I for the life of me cannot understand why he stayed. Nick looked really disappointed that she had to even ask that of him.

happydays wrote:Interesting you brought this up, I remember in the body language thread, it was sleuthed that K was using the microexpression of guilt when talking about Nick in an eonline interview I think

I was the one who saw that and posted about it. I think it was the E! Online interview - it was very early in the season before it was ever disclosed that Nick was the premature sex guy. But it wasn't guilt that I posted about - there actually isn't a universal micro expression for guilt (Paul Ekman) - the 7 types of universal micro expressions are: anger, fear, sadness, disgust, contempt, surprise and happiness.

I couldn't exactly put my finger on which was the most likely in Kaitlyn's case but I felt I could rule out fear, sadness, surprise and happiness leaving as possible emotions anger, disgust and contempt. I felt that Kaitlyn was trying to suppress some sort of negative emotion while she was talking about Nick and that by the end of the show we'd see something happen between them that could account for her feelings at the time. I still believe that and that we have not necessarily already seen what caused her to feel that way.