Kaitlyn Bristowe - Shawn Booth - Bachelorette 11 - *Spoilers - Sleuthing* - Discussion

Regarding the blogs and alleged anti-nick SM which I have yet to see concrete evidence of; Last season, Andi"s buddy Kelly was quite horrible to Nick in her tweets. Also during HT dates, Nick was conspicuously absent from her tweeting the pictures prior to the dates. I don't know why some say K is avoiding N but maybe something did happen that we are not privy to.

Lucas15 wrote:Those who accuse Kaitlyn of rewriting history to suit her purpose now are certainly entitled to have that opinion - everyone here is entitled to have their opinion and as long as they express it with respect to everyone else here they are entitled to express the opinion they have.

IMO the fact is that none of us know how Kaitlyn felt during filming - we weren't there to talk with her to ask her what she was thinking, we couldn't read her mind then, and we can't read her mind now. If she says something about how she felt I don't think any of us have any basis in fact to say that she didn't. If we don't like what she wrote, if the fact that what she didn't say makes us mad, then we have the right to not read it.
JMHO

Just to recap, she did not talk about their Dublin date AT ALL. She defended the sex, but she did not say anything about Nick or their date at all. She had to have some type of feelings for Nick, even if they were just physical, considering she had sex with the guy. And, then, she did not talk about his ILY AT ALL. She talked about Jared's ILY, Ben's ILY, Joe's ILY, and Shawn's ILY. I'm supposed to believe she was so apathetic to Nick's ILY that it registered below Joe's ILY? Not buying it. Either she's a Oscar-worthy actress, a sociopath who has been lying through her teeth from day one, a sex maniac...OR, someone who's downplaying her relationship with Nick to protect her insecure fiance's feelings.

bleuberry wrote:

chasingpavements wrote:

agentcurls wrote:She is choosing to do, say, write, what SHE wants. And for good reason. Tptb tried to throw her, Shawn, and their love story under the bus. And she wants the world to know how she really feels about Shawn. I don't see that as coming from a place of insecurity. I think she is proud of their relationship and wants to share it with all.

I've heard people say this a lot, and I truly don't get it. I feel like Kaitlyn/Shawn got one of the best "love stories" in this franchise, as their fans got to see her give him a FIR, give him the first kiss, say that this is the closest she's felt to love at first sight, tell him that she's falling in love with him after the first date, and say that it feels that her husband telling her ILY for the first time. Their fans haven't had to hear K tell anyone else that she loves them (like Sean/Cat fans did), make future plans with the F2 (like Nikki/JP fans did), and deal with the fact that their F1 was second choice (like Chris/Des fans did). I think that TPTB did the best they could with the material that K/S gave them. If K was going to pre-FS sex with another guy and freakout about it, of course they were going to show it. If S was going to have panic attacks every other day, of course they were going to show it. I don't think that they got any worse than past couples, and I would actually argue that they got much better.

And, lastly, it's important to remember that this isn't a personal DVD for them to remember their love story. They are merely players in a reality show whose main purpose is to entertain 7 million people. Kaitlyn didn't get paid to fall in love; she got paid to be the "prize" in a dramatic search for love that TPTB could make a show out of. The blogs are not her personal journal, they are a part of her job.

Interesting because I find their love story to be one of the more tainted ones. I don't think fans will ever let either of them forget it and the show seems to be doing their best in that regard. Does anyone remember what Sean said to Lindsay when he rejected her? I don't find that example comparable really as it was barely a bump in the road.

I'd compare this to Ben and Courtney because Des/Chris IMO weren't thrown under the bus character wise.

I think it just depends who you ask. Most people I know IRL thought that TPTB were embarrassed by Des/Chris since he was her second, last-minute choice and TPTB didn't even care enough about them to give them a wedding. I know that's not true, but that's what I've heard a bunch of people say. I think the fact that Sean/Cat are so likeable and are the only Bachelor couple to make it has definitely won people over, but at the time, I remember people being like "wait, who's Catherine?".

I would say that K/S are most similar to JP/Nikki, because I think that Courtney was the villian and I don't think that Shawn is looked at as a villain by most of the viewers. Most people I see are #teamShawn and think that he's a genuine guy who's truly in love with Kaitlyn. I think that ocean sex with Clare is similar to sex with Nick, and I think that most people thought that Clare/Nick were the "villians" of the season. I would also say that Kaitlyn is similar to JP, as she started out as a fan favorite and just became this sex-obsessed lead who repeatedly put her foot in her mouth. I would also predict that the post-show lead/F2 dynamic is the same, but I guess we'll see!

chasingpavements wrote:(snipped) I think it just depends who you ask. Most people I know IRL thought that TPTB were embarrassed by Des/Chris since he was her second, last-minute choice and TPTB didn't even care enough about them to give them a wedding. I know that's not true, but that's what I've heard a bunch of people say. I think the fact that Sean/Cat are so likeable and are the only Bachelor couple to make it has definitely won people over, but at the time, I remember people being like "wait, who's Catherine?".

I would say that K/S are most similar to JP/Nikki, because I think that Courtney was the villian and I don't think that Shawn is looked at as a villain by most of the viewers. Most people I see are #teamShawn and think that he's a genuine guy who's truly in love with Kaitlyn. I think that ocean sex with Clare is similar to sex with Nick, and I think that most people thought that Clare/Nick were the "villians" of the season. I would also say that Kaitlyn is similar to JP, as she started out as a fan favorite and just became this sex-obsessed lead who repeatedly put her foot in her mouth. I would also predict that the post-show lead/F2 dynamic is the same, but I guess we'll see!

I don't watch the Bach, but my recollection is that Clare confronted JP a bit on ATFR.
As others have suggested, I hope Nick takes the really high road and kills the couple with kindness.
I have every expectation and hope that he will.

I actually think that they never spoke on ATFR, because she had her piece at the FRC and they wanted to make time for the trainwreck that was JP/Nikki. It was still obvious that Clare hated JP, and I'm going to assume the feeling was mutual.

Obviously, there's no way that they're not going to have Nick talk to Kaitlyn at the ATFR and I don't think he hates her, so it's a bit different. I just meant that their relationship will be strained, whereas most F2/leads are like "wait, do we know each other?" by the time the ATFR films. As long as Kaitlyn doesn't say "I don't love you, but I loved f-ing you", I guess N/K's relationship will be less screwed up than JP/Clare's.

Not to get off topic. I agree with you cp, however Claire was the hero for telling JPG off on national TV and mentioning what he apparently said about having sex with her. The very same thing another F2 confronted the lead for who got vilified and continues to. I think every lead since could have said the same thing to their F2 that JPG said to Claire. I like ......ing you but...... It's no different this season.

Claire was rewarded with BIP and BIP2 for playing her part.

If S and K are deliberately not playing by the rules for whatever reason, they need to be prepared for the consequences. I've said it before. Last 'ette season we got 5 minutes if that, of the happy couple and we all saw the rest. I think we are headed down the same path. The ATFR will be telling of K and S. They've had a lot of time to sort this all out. They should learn from Bach Canada and Bach New Zealand's ATFR, nothing but class, but TPTB are not interested in class. IMHO.

^^ thanks for setting me straight on Claire, Ladies.
It looks like Nick has moved on .... again, I'm hoping for a smooth and way less emotional conversation than the one he had with SWSNBN.

chasingpavements wrote: someone who's downplaying her relationship with Nick to protect her insecure fiance's feelings.

IMO that's exactly what she should be doing if she wants to earn his trust.

Wow, I fundamentally disagree with that. Downplaying is pretty much a close relative of the world "lying". So, she's basically lying about her past relationship to earn someone's trust? Basic contradiction there. The way to earn someone's trust is to say "hey, this is the messy path that it took me to get to you. I had feelings for him, strong feelings even, but I realized that they did not compare to what I had with you".

Lucas15 wrote:

chasingpavements wrote: someone who's downplaying her relationship with Nick to protect her insecure fiance's feelings.

IMO that's exactly what she should be doing if she wants to earn his trust.

Downplaying one's feelings doesn't earn trust, being honest earns trust.

If Kaitlyn has to downplay her feelings to earn Shawn's trust then their relationship is doomed before it began.

JMHO

I would agree that their love story is one of the better ones had Kaitlyn not allowed Nick to return and everything else after that. It had so much potential but it feels all muddled up now. For starters, their fans (myself included) get to hear her having sex with her f2 while claiming Shawn was who she wanted. Not exactly giving me the feels .

chasingpavements wrote:Wow, I fundamentally disagree with that. Downplaying is pretty much a close relative of the world "lying". So, she's basically lying about her past relationship to earn someone's trust? Basic contradiction there. The  way to earn someone's trust is to say "hey, this is the messy path that it took me to get to you. I had feelings for him, strong feelings even, but I realized that they did not compare to what I had with you".

Chasingpavements that may indeed be what she has said to Shawn, but there is a great deal of difference between what you share privately with your fiancé after the show is over and what you choose to share over SM with fans of the show. It is hard to protect the feelings of a fiancé when he, and all the world, have heard you engaging in love making with someone else. The least she can do - if she truly wants things to work out with Shawn - is to minimize future hurt by being careful about what she puts out in public from this point on. I'm not sure about Kaitlyn or her feelings, but she is now in the position of receiving criticism for sleeping with 2 or more guys and then criticism for not describing her feelings/dates in more depth with the guy she apparently didn't choose. Damned if she does and damned if she doesn't! Seems like the life lesson is to explore one relationship at a time - something that runs contrary to everything this show is about!

chasingpavements wrote:Wow, I fundamentally disagree with that. Downplaying is pretty much a close relative of the world "lying". So, she's basically lying about her past relationship to earn someone's trust? Basic contradiction there. The  way to earn someone's trust is to say "hey, this is the messy path that it took me to get to you. I had feelings for him, strong feelings even, but I realized that they did not compare to what I had with you".

Down playing your past feelings for someone doesn't make them not real. It is just a lie and eventually it will come back to haunt any couple but especially one where the man is so set on trust and honesty.

I truly don't understand how choosing your F1 when you really loved and cared about F2 is not a huge compliment. He was fantastic, I probably could have had a pretty good relationship or even life with him, but I choose you. I think even though he was really good, you are it, you are my one, so I will not pick the really good because I want to give my all to you. That to me is an honest foundation for a relationship.

I have met only a few people that marry their first love and have one sex partner their whole lives. Being honest about what you learned from other partners that made you able to love the person you are with even better is a true sign of maturity.

Andi downplayed the Nick connection and it seemed to work for a while, but if you ask the average viewer, they would probably tell you after watching the snotty Andi cry fest that Nick and Nick sex stayed an issue for them.

Be honest, the person either accepts you for who you are or you were never meant to be with them. A truly loving freeing relationship gives you that freedom to be who you are without down playing or hiding anything. JMO.