Kaitlyn Bristowe - Shawn Booth - Bachelorette 11 - *Spoilers - Sleuthing* - Discussion

allaboutlove wrote:In the scheme of what this show is, I just don't get why it is necessary that K had to tell the guys or Shawn while on the show on camera or anything.

It makes sense to me that the producers convinced Kaitlyn that it would be worse for Shawn to find it out after FRC instead of telling him upfront. They had her over a barrel because they were going to televise all of it regardless of what it did to her relationship. They manipulated her the whole way.

She was her own worst enemy because she thought she was in a protected position, could do as she pleased, and she let herself be herself.

lucas15 wrote:Putting Nick on this season was IMO more casting / story production driven.

I chose that sentence but my reply really concerns your whole post. I don't think we are disagreeing on your points at all. I believe that is the reason they wanted Nick on this season also.

Where we differ is that I don't believe that Nick had that much true interest in Kaitlyn or going back on tv again. I think MF had him in his back pocket for whenever he saw a use for him. The circumstances that developed this season cried out for intervention, so they put Nick in. jmo.

^IA and stated that about the TPTB being in her ear in my post. It is just that Kaitlyn seemed to be so okay with owning her sexuality (even giving information freely about her sleeping with Chris Soules while engaged to Shawn) so I am still not buying why it really mattered at all that it was such a big deal to Kailtyn that Shawn may leave her if he finds out but she would have to tell him.

I mean, I get the the "whys" as they have been speculated and stated over and over, I guess I am just saying I am not buying any of it really... even Shawn's behavior considering K told Seacrest about sleeping with CS while engaged to Shawn.

Like, why did Kaitlyn need or even want to bring that up and say this? She is engaged to Shawn and yet saying she slept with Chris Soules?

I just feel like she wanted to tell Shawn about Nick... just like she wanted the public to know that she slept with CS. Because really, while the one was shown (with Nick at least with the audio) the other was not with CS, yet post-show and engaged she tells this? Just odd, imo.

^^AAL, so if she wanted to tell Shawn about Nick, it could be that she thrives on stirring drama in her relationships, or that she wanted him to have all the facts, or it was a test to see if he would stick by her, or she was hoping to run him off. Those are the reasons I can think of off the top of my head, so there may be others that you've thought of. I have trouble reading the girl.

But, I tend to believe that she was living in that bubble of fear that Shawn would leave, esp. since he was being so possessive, and that's all it boiled down to for her at that time. She is honest to a fault and needed for him to know all, imo.

Post FRC, if she felt solid with Shawn, then it meant he had accepted her for who she is and wouldn't hold a former fling against her. So, I think she told about CS because she knew C/W had broken up and didn't want the heat on W. Her comment was made to tell who C really was. imo.

Like so many have said, I don't think K thinks ahead very well before she acts or speaks.

BKay wrote:Where we differ is that I don't believe that Nick had that much true interest in Kaitlyn or going back on tv again. I think MF had him in his back pocket for whenever he saw a use for him. The circumstances that developed this season cried out for intervention, so they put Nick in. jmo.

I guess I'm 80/40 - or 40/80 - on why Nick went on. I can think of a lot of reasons - but IMO any leverage tptb had over Nick as a result of plane-gate ended a year ago on Andi's ATFR. He had a contractual obligation to appear on that show (so does the lead and F1) and once he appeared that was the end of it; if they didn't go after him for plane-gate then they won't now because he fulfilled his legal obligation.

IMO they do have Nick in their back pocket - along with everyone else who's ever done the show - in the sense that if he wants the perks that go along with being a Bachelor Nation alumni he can't bite the hand that feeds him. I think Nick is enough of his own man with his own mind that if they told him "you have to go on this season to atone for spoiling Andi's season" and he didn't want to do it he'd tell them where to stick that idea - unless he wanted to go on for his own reasons.

BKay wrote:But, I tend to believe that she was living in that bubble of fear that Shawn would leave, esp. since he was being so possessive, and that's all it boiled down to for her at that time. She is honest to a fault and needed for him to know all, imo.

I think there was a portion of what she felt / feared that was organic but IMO for sure the producers were feeding that fear to make her just all the crazier. Just like they were doing the same thing to Shawn to make him crazier - this is IMO what they do and they're very good at it.

Kaitlyn is her own worst enemy and there's no filter on her mouth - she'll say just about anything (ie I saw Farmer Chris naked) and she is honest - often too honest for her own good. BTW she didn't volunteer that information about Farmer Chris - she was asked a specific question that she answered honestly. And stupidly IMO. No filter.

remockered wrote:What I do not get is Kaitlyn had her 1-1 with Shawn and referred to him as her future husband.  The next day, she goes to his room and hangs with him on his bed all night.  The very next day, she sleeps with Nick.  She worries for two weeks that her "forever" will find out, meanwhile he is freaking out over being "the one" and not getting special tratment..   She tells him to hang in there and at the end, they will find their forever.  She is so worried about Shawn, that she sleeps with Nick again.  Even if she sleeps with Shawn, it is still two nights with Nick vs one with her forever man.  Shawn gets over both sleepovers, but is upset over not getting a rose?  Something still does not compute.

Lucas, Are you saying it is a fact that his legal obligation ended after Andi's atfr? That wasn't what I understood about the multi million dollar contract he blew with his spoiler, so would love to know if you have info about it.

About having him in their back pocket, Nick has never taken advantage of any of the bachnation perks that I am aware of, (except coming on two seasons) so I don't think he was just trying to stay in good graces with them, but of course, I don't know him at all, and am just basing that thought on his actions per media and sm.

edited to add who I'm responding to since I forgot to quote!

BKay wrote:I am sounding like a broken record, but I can't get past my belief that Nick is on this season to pay his debt to them for planegate. When I look at the whole storyline, I see a girl who told a boy too soon that he was her choice. Boy told other boys and they obediently backed off.

Producers brought in a boy who owed them and set about putting this boy and the girl in circumstances that would make it easy for them to get footage to cast doubt on her first choice. She gave them more than they asked - lucky day for them. all imo.

The pieces don't feel like they fit to me if it went down any other way. But that's just me.  

See, I don't believe that. I think that only a few guys were actually INTO Kaitlyn. Whether Shawn had been there or not, I think that only a few (Jared, Nick) would have truly tried to pursue a relationship with her. I felt that guys like Chris, Ben, and Joe were just "falling in love" in the bubble and the others were just trying to win a competition. If Shawn really had that power on the guys, I think we'd be seeing a much more Constantine-level checked out vibe from the guys, which I don't see.

I also don't agree that Kaitlyn told a boy "too soon" that he was her choice. Ali told us that she told Roberto on their first 1-on-1 that he was the one. Ashley said she started writing journals to JP in week 3, because he was the one and she wanted him to know that throughout the experience she was thinking of him. Those are the only ones I've heard, but I would be shocked if other Bachelor/etts haven't done it.

I also personally feel like Nick came to do the show the same reasons people like Mary, Shawntel, and Kacie came back. He likes the attention that he gets from being on TV and he genuinely was interested in Kaitlyn. Remember, a random radio host in Milwaukee knew that he was "obsessed" her. A friend of his gave a quote that they talked everyday, had a pretty sexual flirtation, and how Nick spoke "10 beers" about how amazing the girl was. I don't believe that the show if ever going to sue a contestant for spoiling the show, and I don't think that Nick ever had that fear. If Kaitlyn knew that TPTB were still dangling a potential lawsuit against a former contestant for a year, she would have never been as reckless as she was on SM (and continues to be).

chasingpavements wrote:

BKay wrote:I am sounding like a broken record, but I can't get past my belief that Nick is on this season to pay his debt to them for planegate. When I look at the whole storyline, I see a girl who told a boy too soon that he was her choice. Boy told other boys and they obediently backed off.

Producers brought in a boy who owed them and set about putting this boy and the girl in circumstances that would make it easy for them to get footage to cast doubt on her first choice. She gave them more than they asked - lucky day for them. all imo.

The pieces don't feel like they fit to me if it went down any other way. But that's just me.  

See, I don't believe that. I think that only a few guys were actually INTO Kaitlyn. Whether Shawn had been there or not, I think that only a few (Jared, Nick) would have truly tried to pursue a relationship with her. I felt that guys like Chris, Ben, and Joe were just "falling in love" in the bubble and the others were just trying to win a competition.  If Shawn really had that power on the guys, I think we'd be seeing a much more Constantine-level checked out vibe from the guys, which I don't see.

I also don't agree that Kaitlyn told a boy "too soon" that he was her choice. Ali told us that she told Roberto on their first 1-on-1 that he was the one. Ashley said she started writing journals to JP in week 3, because he was the one and she wanted him to know that throughout the experience she was thinking of him. Those are the only ones I've heard, but I would be shocked if other Bachelor/etts haven't done it.

I also personally feel like Nick came to do the show the same reasons people like Mary, Shawntel, and Kacie came back. He likes the attention that he gets from being on TV and he genuinely was interested in Kaitlyn. Remember, a random radio host in Milwaukee knew that he was "obsessed" her. A friend of his gave a quote that they talked everyday, had a pretty sexual  flirtation, and how Nick spoke "10 beers" about how amazing the girl was. I don't believe that the show if ever going to sue a contestant for spoiling the show, and I don't think that Nick ever had that fear. If Kaitlyn knew that TPTB were still dangling a potential lawsuit against a former contestant for a year, she would have never been as reckless as she was on SM (and continues to be).

To me, the guys have seemed about at the Constantine level of uninterested, but I know that's a subjective opinion.

About telling Shawn too soon, that's been such a subject re him and his meltdowns, that to me it's a given that it was too soon. If I'm remembering correctly, Ashley kept the journal and gave to JP afterward, but didn't tell him he was the one early on during filming.

It may seem farfetched, but a lot of the things that Nick reportedly said about K could've been planted after tptb wanted him for the show. I respect your opinion about the lawsuit's lack of teeth, but we don't really know how they deal with the contestants regarding that. We know MF took spoilers seriously enough to sue RS and takes delight in shutting him down, so I have to believe he doesn't take it lightly when his contestants mess things up, and would pursue legal action or hold the threat over them. He has to maintain that position or eventually there will be no controlling the leaks at all. I concede that we have seen changes with the use of sm, so who knows what MF is thinking or plotting.

But Kaitlyn's mistake - accidentally or on-purpose - might just be because she is simply a careless person, or because it was worth it to her in the moment and she didn't think ahead, rather than it being because she felt they wouldn't do anything to her. I'm not saying I am 100% sold on my concept, but to me it is intriguing to look around at other angles that could make the puzzle pieces fit.

eta: Also, a large part of why I want this theory to be true is because I really hope Nick went through all of this without his heart getting involved, then broken. I prefer to think that he stayed above the fray and went along with what tptb needed him to do because he knew it was bringing him closer to freedom. imo.

BKay wrote:

chasingpavements wrote:

BKay wrote:I am sounding like a broken record, but I can't get past my belief that Nick is on this season to pay his debt to them for planegate. When I look at the whole storyline, I see a girl who told a boy too soon that he was her choice. Boy told other boys and they obediently backed off.

Producers brought in a boy who owed them and set about putting this boy and the girl in circumstances that would make it easy for them to get footage to cast doubt on her first choice. She gave them more than they asked - lucky day for them. all imo.

The pieces don't feel like they fit to me if it went down any other way. But that's just me.  

See, I don't believe that. I think that only a few guys were actually INTO Kaitlyn. Whether Shawn had been there or not, I think that only a few (Jared, Nick) would have truly tried to pursue a relationship with her. I felt that guys like Chris, Ben, and Joe were just "falling in love" in the bubble and the others were just trying to win a competition.  If Shawn really had that power on the guys, I think we'd be seeing a much more Constantine-level checked out vibe from the guys, which I don't see.

I also don't agree that Kaitlyn told a boy "too soon" that he was her choice. Ali told us that she told Roberto on their first 1-on-1 that he was the one. Ashley said she started writing journals to JP in week 3, because he was the one and she wanted him to know that throughout the experience she was thinking of him. Those are the only ones I've heard, but I would be shocked if other Bachelor/etts haven't done it.

I also personally feel like Nick came to do the show the same reasons people like Mary, Shawntel, and Kacie came back. He likes the attention that he gets from being on TV and he genuinely was interested in Kaitlyn. Remember, a random radio host in Milwaukee knew that he was "obsessed" her. A friend of his gave a quote that they talked everyday, had a pretty sexual  flirtation, and how Nick spoke "10 beers" about how amazing the girl was. I don't believe that the show if ever going to sue a contestant for spoiling the show, and I don't think that Nick ever had that fear. If Kaitlyn knew that TPTB were still dangling a potential lawsuit against a former contestant for a year, she would have never been as reckless as she was on SM (and continues to be).

To me, the guys have seemed about at the Constantine level of uninterested, but I know that's a subjective opinion.

About telling Shawn too soon, that's been such a subject re him and his meltdowns, that to me it's a given that it was too soon. If I'm remembering correctly, Ashley kept the journal and gave to JP afterward, but didn't tell him he was the one early on during filming.

It may seem farfetched, but a lot of the things that Nick reportedly said about K could've been planted after tptb wanted him for the show. I respect your opinion about the lawsuit's lack of teeth, but we don't really know how they deal with the contestants regarding that. We know MF took spoilers seriously enough to sue RS and takes delight in shutting him down, so I have to believe he doesn't take it lightly when his contestants mess things up, and would pursue legal action or hold the threat over them. He has to maintain that position or eventually there will be no controlling the leaks at all. I concede that we have seen changes with the use of sm, so who knows what MF is thinking or plotting.

But Kaitlyn's mistake - accidentally or on-purpose - might just be because she is simply a careless person, or because it was worth it to her in the moment and she didn't think ahead, rather than it being because she felt they wouldn't do anything to her. I'm not saying I am 100% sold on my concept, but to me it is intriguing to look around at other angles that could make the puzzle pieces fit.

I love hearing other people's opinions too! I've changed my stance on things after reading here, which is why I love our discussions.

- So, I think that the majority of Bachelorettes since Jillian have only had about 2-4 guys that were actually interested in them, with the exception of Emily and Andi. I think that it seems enhanced this year, because we've seen so little of the guys and the show has mostly focused on the guys that are leaving (Clint, Kupah, Tony, Ian) or Shawn v. Nick. In some of the deleted scenes, it did seem like Chris and Jared were really into her (at least in the Bubble) and they are both good friends with Shawn. I honestly don't believe that Shawn is really as "alpha-male" as people say that he is. The guy shows pictures of his niece and nephew and cries because he didn't a group date rose. I think he's more alpha male than Nick, but I don't think that the other guys are "scared" of him or going to back off because of him.

- I believe that Ashley did tell JP, but we only heard about the journals. Ashley even said that she was the first one to say ILY and Elan talked about seeing JP coming out of her hotel room mid/late into filming. And, I think that there have been others. I would be shocked if Brad hadn't told Emily (according to him, he knew that she was the one after their 1st conversation), JP hadn't told Nikki (although introducing him to her daughter pretty meant he did), and Ben hadn't told Courtney (I actually he did, if I remember Courtney's book correctly).

- I don't think that Nick's stuff was planted afterwards, because RS knew quite a bit before Nick even showed up for filming. I think he found out about the FT-ing and sexting later. Also, it wouldn't really make sense for the show to plant that stuff, since their whole story is "Nick and Kaitlyn only texted a few times". If they admit that's a lie, they are admitting that their lead is a liar and they knew it.

- I don't think that Fleiss takes it lightly, which is probably why Kaitlyn was immediately flown out to CHI and RS was sued, but I don't think it affects him to the level where he's going to sue a contestant. Most of the higher-rated seasons (Sean, JP, Chris, Emily) were spoiled by RS correctly, and Des's season didn't really have great ratings, despite the surprise. So, I think the spoiler is more of an ego thing, but at the end of the day, he cares about ratings. And, I think that suing contestants and leads for $5 million dollars is going to scare future contestants off and I don't think he wants to take that risk.

- I think that no matter how careless of a person you are, if you knew someone that was almost sued for $5 million dollars and spent a year trying to essentially "pay" off their debt, you would be f-ing careful! I don't think that Kaitlyn's the sharpest tool in the shed, but she's not an idiot either. I think that she realizes that one person in the history of this show (meaning ~750 contestants/leads total) has gotten sued and it had nothing to do with spoilers. And, every year, people make stupid mistakes. Andi had Josh on her snap-chat top contacts. Whitney has "wannabe Iowan" on her Twitter description. Chantal openly dated Jef while she was rumored to be F1. Sean flew in Catherine to Dallas and took her out with his friends to the movies. Ben flew out to Scarsdale to spend the holidays with Courtney and her family. And, so forth!

Interesting post but I sincerely hope Chantal did NOT date Jef...1F.  

HELLO! I was gone for 2 weeks on a great vacation where I actually didn't even think about this show!
But now I feel so behind! Can anyone give me a quick synopsis?? Are K & Shawn still together?