Married At First Sight - Season 3 - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

sandia30 wrote:Judging from the clips of the reveal whos stays married show, it shows Neil and Sam sitting very close together and tightly holding hands... Makes me think Sam got some Ritalin in her and that they are going to stay together.   Did you see that also?

Is this new material or based the show's promos and on who's wearing what clothes and matching colors seen in the promos' close-ups?

IMHO, the clips are generally among the least creditable parts of MAFS.

Speaking of creditability, look at the stand-ups (single person talking about whatever). Take a look at the backgrounds, what the person is wearing, etc. In David's case, there's an antique camera over his left shoulder and he's wearing a white or light colored shirt. This setting has recurred in all of the episodes to date. Neil has a guitar, tilting to one side, on a window sill in the background. Tres seems to be outdoors a lot. Sam and Ashley seem to be changing a lot (one minute Ashley has straight hair, then curled or waved hair, for example). Vanessa seems to a little more constant, at least her clothing doesn't change as much.

And check out Dr. Levekoff's ...ah... costume changes. Either she really likes that sort of winged top thingie in almost magenta a lot or there are a lot of comments filmed at the same time and scattered throughout S3.

There's also the matter of timing. A prime example: Vanessa is talking about something to do with what's going on in the honeymoon. The front of her t-shirt is wet (t-shirt over wet bikini) but we haven't seen her or Tres in the water yet. They jump in the water and the wet t-shirt returns. In other words, the comments are simply out of sequence from the events.

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Sam's almost head-on... Sam gets a pass for that. A left-hand drive car on a right-hand drive island can be challenging. In this setting, left turns are the easy "stay in the same lane" turns, and turning right is the harder "crossing lanes" turn. In a LHD car, the urge is to treat a right turn as you do in the States. Oops.

BTW, even crossing streets in a RHD setting demands a small adjustment: look right before crossing the street. More than a few tourists have gone down looking to the left as they stepped off the curb.

One of the frustrations of the series is demonstrated by an exchange between Ashley and David. "What was your longest relationship?" "Nine years - from after high school thru grad school." David says the longest he's gone has been two years. There's a lot, in that exchange, to think about. The chances of hearing more, though, are probably slim to none.

Thinking about Sam and Neil, I'm inclined to think there's little chance that Sam will change radically in the remaining five weeks. The same holds for Neil. If things go well, they'll reach some sort of accommodation that they find acceptable and viable. That is, they'll figure out some way to deal with each other's ...um... eccentricities. It will be something they can do without feeling they're giving up too, and it'll be something will work for more than five weeks.

And that lead me to think about being in the couples' situation. And that brought me to "how might I handle this situation?" Of course, faith in the selection process has to be very strong. The phrase "the experts matched us for a reason" is a recurring phrase in S3. And it's typically followed with "it's up to us to figure out why." OK, I can go with that.

I mentioned hormone-induced infatuation. Let's assume that fades out within a week or two as "if he sucks his teeth like that one more time..." or "if she snorts when she laughs one more time..." takes over. Except in rare occasions, going from "hello" to "you had me at hello" isn't likely to happen. What's the game plan then?

Use the five plus weeks (assume the first few days are too chaotic for reasonable thought) to do the dating process that starts a true relationship. Maybe, as David did during the honeymoon, and as Ashley has asked for, even choose to spend some time apart to re-charge, reflect, and let things sink in. The idea of at least a short term lease on an apartment, to create a neutral meeting space that becomes an "our" space- avoiding "he's moving into my space" or vice versa - makes sense. Obviously this all hinges on whether or not this is financially possible.

I'd view "decision day" as "fish or cut bait" time, of course. There's no real choice there - it's how the show works. But, if my partner doesn't reject me, it should also be the day to say "will you marry me" in all earnestness. At that point it's no longer marrying a stranger, but someone to truly be the other half of "we".

Of course, it's all much easier to play the game by watching from the 50 yard line. ;)

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Right now it's a little before 5PM here (Germany) and we'll start Christmas Eve in all seriousness in about another hour (here, Christmas Eve is when all of the close family things happen, not tomorrow). Whether or not you celebrate Christmas, know this is the time, when the days are shortest, to see the spiritual light that holds back the darkness and promises the light to come. I wish that you all find peace and joy in this time.

SomeGuy wrote:

sandia30 wrote:Judging from the clips of the reveal whos stays married show, it shows Neil and Sam sitting very close together and tightly holding hands... Makes me think Sam got some Ritalin in her and that they are going to stay together.   Did you see that also?

Is this new material or based the show's promos and on who's wearing what clothes and matching colors seen in the promos' close-ups?

You see this clip at the beginning of every episode where the experts ask do you want to stay married or get a divorce. Sam and Neil are holding hands as they sit in front of the experts.

OK - gotit. I can't recall who was holding hands (or not) in S1 or S2 promos. I have a vague recollection that, for example, Cortney and Jason might not have been. And of course, as she said later, she was looking death rays at Jason as he seemed to be setting up to choose divorce. The point is, reading these "tea leaves" is probably not enough to get it done.

With no spoilers at this point - I am finding myself grasping at straws from their social media interaction. So here are my opinions at this point from what I can gather based on Twitter alone.

David/Ashley - David is far too happy and complimentary of Ashley in all his posts for a recent breakup. I don't see much from her end but that could just be her slow to warm up personality. Verdict: still together

Neil/Sam - this is a harder read. However, she seems really torn up over her treatment of him in the most recent episode. She talks often about how much she's grown and says to keep watching. He also defends her and seems generally positive. This is a toss up but my verdict at this point is still together.

Vanessa/Tres - Vanessa s posts lately have been more bleak. She says things like she can't get over how fake people can be and retweets posts about the new year bringing new surprises and how to trust your gut,not trust people. Her only real interaction with tres is a snarky comment saying she didn't know she married a politician. Sad to say, my verdict is these two are divorced. Hope I'm proven wrong! I'd love to see a 100% success rate!

Any other social media guesses out there?

D&A sound pretty much as expected. At this point, of course, we're talking about history - The Day of Decision is long past in F2F time. Maybe Ashley gave up, but I'm inclined to think she's just being guarded - which is no surprise. So, yes, it seems reasonable they stayed together.

I simply don't trust Sam, at least as she's being presented, to be much more than the impulsive, self-centered neurotic we've seen to date. The idea that she was "torn up" about Neil just doesn't fit what we've seen to date. Maybe Sam has more depth than we've seen. Maybe her father told her to grow up. Beats me [/shrug] That Neil didn't do at least some form of "I'm outta here" either means he really is a wuss or that's he's got a lot of patience and commitment. We'll see what E5 has to say... I'm not optimistic about this couple having survived The Day of Decision. Unless Sam pulled up her big girl panties and got to work on the relationship.

Unless Tres scammed the Experts (as if that could ever possibly happen, right?), could it be Vanessa was unreasonable about her expectations? (as if that hasn't happened already - Vaughn? Monet?) I can't get too worked up over a person who's kissy-kissy and then not and then is and... Did this couple stay together? Agreed, probably not.

Racine28!

IA with the exception of Tres and Vanessa, I haven't scoped out their SM but sounds like you're speculation may be correct. Thanks for the recap of your thoughts!

SomeGuy wrote:OK - gotit. I can't recall who was holding hands (or not) in S1 or S2 promos. I have a vague recollection that, for example, Cortney and Jason might not have been. And of course, as she said later, she was looking death rays at Jason as he seemed to be setting up to choose divorce. The point is, reading these "tea leaves" is probably not enough to get it done.

i would think the intimate gestures could be one of the clues, if the couple were staying together at the Big Decision Day. I remember clearly Ryan D and Jessica were sitting close and he put his hands on her lap.   . Of course that doesn't mean they would stay together at this moment   .

Racine28 wrote:With no spoilers at this point - I am finding myself grasping at straws from their social media interaction.  So here are my opinions at this point from what I can gather based on Twitter alone.  

David/Ashley - David is far too happy and complimentary of Ashley in all his posts for a recent breakup.  I don't see much from her end but that could just be her slow to warm up personality.  Verdict: still together

Neil/Sam - this is a harder read.  However, she seems really torn up over her treatment of him in the most recent episode.  She talks often about how much she's grown and says to keep watching.  He also defends her and seems generally positive.  This is a toss up but my verdict at this point is still together.

Vanessa/Tres - Vanessa s posts lately have been more bleak.  She says things like she can't get over how fake people can be and retweets posts about the new year bringing new surprises and how to trust your gut,not trust people.  Her only real interaction with tres is a snarky comment saying she didn't know she married a politician.  Sad to say, my verdict is these two are divorced.  Hope I'm proven wrong!  I'd love to see a 100% success rate!

Any other social media guesses out there?

Thanks for your perspective and verdict

Ryan R and Jaclyn were my fav last season. I could have sworn that they were definitely an item by looking at their soc med interactions. . 'Oddly enough, to me, David and Ashley 's SM dynamics resembles Ryan and Jac last season. :halo: . Even though i don't believe rumors easily, too much has been said about David by too many people that made me think there must have been some truth to it. . The most shocking one is a comment by Ashley's mom on MAFS's FB page defending Ashley,saying that they didn't like David much, and implicitly indicating that they are no longer together (or something the effect...since the said comment is now deleted... ).   So yeah, Dashley are most likely donezo in my book.

As far as Sam and Neil goes, observing from season 1, i would think the show is famous for milking their contestants's antics's to no end. Jamie and Doug's interesting "smoking gate" anyone? :halo: . To me, it's clear that they are still together. Out of the 3 couples, they are the only one without back-story or money issues...and they are actually the oldest couple of the entire US franchise.(although IA Sam still needs to work with her own personal issues). One evidence that stood out to me is the interaction between Bob (Sam's dad) and Neil on twitter.  One can fake such thing with a former spouse for some extent, and for so long (obligatory by the show?).  but i highly doubt an in law would agree to do it if the couple are broken up already. JMO.

IA with you on Tres and Venessa. IMO i believe Tres was not ready for the experience. I wouldn't be surprise if he went on just for "the exposure".Poor Venessa.

Time will tell, of course

PS: from reading here and there..including this forum back then, when the trainwreck of S2 was revealed by someone inside production, , the producers did the ATL casting in similar fashion with S2 : full speed turbo, careless style . Hence, i guess they must thank their lucky stars for any success this season. .

David & Ashley: I don't think they are together. I don't them building any kind of intimacy. I think David could do better. I would hate for him to be in a relationship where he constantly has to kiss is wife's azz.

Sam & Neil: i think they are together. I just think Sam took out her anxiety and stress on Neil but I see them working out in the end.

Tres & Vanessa: I do not think they are still together. Vanessa can do much, much better. Tres' looks are overrated and he comes across as super boring. The type that watches sports all day on TV.

watchTV3 wrote:David & Ashley: I don't think they are together. I don't them building any kind of intimacy. I think David could do better. I would hate for him to be in a relationship where he constantly has to kiss is wife's azz.

Sam & Neil: i think they are together. I just think Sam took out her anxiety and stress on Neil but I see them working out in the end.

Tres & Vanessa: I do not think they are still together. Vanessa can do much, much better. Tres' looks are overrated and he comes across as super boring. The type that watches sports all day on TV.

I think I agree with you on these takes except for Neil and Sam - I hope they aren't together because I'd put Neil in the "can do better" category too.

In terms of David/Ashley and Sam/Neil I just think they are terrible matches.  David seems to like to have fun vs Ashley who is soooo reserved and serious.  I called that as a terrible match when they showed their pre marriage parties  (I'm not slamming Ashley, I'm probably a lot like her, I just think she is no match at all for David and shouldn't be on a tv marriage show).  And Sam is so over the top extroverted it comes off as aggressive while Neil seem like a quirky, gentle soul who she seems to think it's fun to bully. 

I know sometimes opposites can attract and balance each other, but it seems to me what they have done here is take extreme ends of the temperament spectrum and put them together and IMO those are just people who will not mesh or see eye to eye.  I think for most middle of the road personality types, the extremes of Sam and Ashley would not work.  They'll need to find a unique partner that gravitates to their very specific natures.  JMO.

Tres and Vanessa seem like they are a good match, I just don't think he's actually ready/willing to want to stay married at all.  There for the fun.  Again, IMO.

I'm don't see why Tres is as bad as y'all are suggesting. I think he's been making an honest effort to be who he is. Again, remember what Dr. Cilona told Vanessa: Tres has been looking for someone to marry for the last two years. If that's right (I still, after S2, have real doubts about all the wonderful personality inventory tools, etc.), "in it for the fame" just doesn't fit. Vanessa seems to be quick to get on Tres for shortcomings. I think she's showing something like buyer's remorse. I may well be missing what's obvious to everyone but me - I just don't see the problem as being mostly of Trey's doing.

I'm still undecided about D&A. David, as I said, is perhaps trying too hard to Do The Right Thing. We saw Ashley's response to the strippers, and that had zero to do with David. She just seems to not be someone who hangs her emotions out where everyone can see them. She seems to be someone with a definite sense of what's right and what's not. No blame attaches.

(I do wonder why her GF's went with the strippers. If they really knew Ashley, I'd expect them to have a good idea about what she likes and doesn't like. In this case the GF's didn't miss by just a little bit - they really and truly ****** up. Oh wait... Try this one for size: Ashley is clearly a private person. She doesn't strike me as Miss Bubbly. Is it possible the producers said, "we gotta have a bachelorette party - it's in the story board." They then find out Ashley has friends, but no close friends. They task these "not close friends" to put together the party. The friends do what they know has worked for other bachelorette parties, and totally get it wrong. Think about it...)

As to the stories about David, I doubt that they're the work of someone with a serious grudge, although I won't rule that out. There is probably a kernel of truth in there. However, Internet rumors are worth exactly what's paid for them. Without concrete evidence, I'd be careful about taking them at face value.

I do not see David as kissing Ashley's butt any more than Doug did with Jamie. Both of them showed a lot of patience in the face of a difficult situation. At least Ashley seems to have an appreciation of what David's trying to do. Jamie... I gave up on this story a long time ago.

Ashley's mother's FB posts (I have not seen them) could be anything from a sour-grapes "I never liked him anyway" after David finally gave up, to David turned out to be a real problem, to she felt she said something she regretted so she pulled the post, to the producers simply jumped on the posting because it might point to the outcome on The Day of Decision (regardless of the actual decision). If there were supporting posts from anyone else, then it would weigh more heavily. Again, without concrete evidence, it's hard to know what's behind the post. As I've said before, the show's editing is clearly about building some TV-suitable series and not a faithful documentary film. Thus, what's presented and what the full record might show may not agree, possibly not even closely.

On balance, I think we're probably seeing David and Ashley as close to who they are as is possible in the circumstances. But then, E5 (or E6 or E7 or...) could change that.

If Sam's father and Neil seem to show some sort of on-going relationship, as you say, it's hard (and not likely) to fake it. Unless there's something like "Glad you liked my beer-can turkey at Thanksgiving", though, who knows what's happened between Sam and Neil on or after The Day of Decision. Remember Neil remained (remains?) on good terms with his ex-GF (why, why, why, why did he invite her? Dumb, dumb, dumb!). Maybe he stays friends with ex-whatevers a lot.

Sam... I've said about all I have to say about her. Again, we may be missing something about her that the editing has left out or obscured. I know I sound paranoid about this, but I really do take what's presented with no small amount of skepticism.

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A comment about matching opposites: SomeGuy and SomeGal are in that category in many ways. We've figured out how to deal with some of them. Some remain, many years later, a source of tension. We do, however, obviously share many things. Some we knew about, some we've found along the way (hint: she started skiing before I did). And years of shared experiences provide a lot of bonding. It's been said of most (all?) of the MAFS matches, that the differences, if they can be managed successfully, will leave both people better for it. I agree.

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I'd really, really, really like to hear an even moderately objective account of going through the MAFS mill. Cortney and Jason (more Cortney?) have touched on this a bit. But there's a lot, from the pre-nupt's to the non-disclosure agreements to you name it that we have no true account of. Think about it - there's the pressure of "get an arranged marriage right in six weeks" (let alone the idea of an arranged marriage without a time limit) on top of "learn to live with cameras in your face - and BTW use your diary cameras a lot" on top of "get it wrong and your life is permanently damaged, period". I'd like to talk to an ethicist about the shark tank the couples are hung over. There is, IMHO, a problem with "for the sake of TV, you may well have a messed up life at the end of it".