Nick Viall - Bachelorette 11 - *Spoilers - Sleuthing* - Discussion #4

Alanna wrote:

IrishGal wrote:Nick's not F1. And I thank goodness for it.  Kaitlin is my fave bette so far and it would break my heart if she hitched herself to that creepy man.  He makes my skin crawl. He's unattractive, he reminds me of Eddie Haskell in the original Leave it to Beaver TV show from the 60s...most of you won't recall that but Eddie was a fake smarmy piece of grossness and that's how I view Nick. He seduced Kait on the internet so that he could make his big comeback and redeem himself...well it didn't work because he is doing the exact same thing. A snake is a snake is a snake. Sorry Nick Chicks but that's just how I feel.

LMAO, just hilarious. He really seems to come from the weasel family of species, doesn't he? Oh Kaitlyn. Not a good decision to ever answer that first creeptastic dm.

I fail to believe Nick is hurting or that he really wanted a solid thing with Kaithlyn. If he really had an interest in her, he would have pursued that outside of the show. The fact that he had direct access to her on SM and even had her phone number tells me he had plans on being on the show for his 16th min. From the minute he came on, he was all over her and vice versa, and lets not forget the sex happened the very 1st time they had a date without the others! SO it must be a spill-over from their communication and interaction pre-show. Why o why didnt BOTH turn down the bachelor gig and explore that relationship outside of the show?
This is why I am convinced she lied about the relationship she had with Nick to the other guys, and he is full of shite thinking we believe him spewing the same things he said to Andi would convince us he has genuine intentions and feelings for KAithlyn. IMO

eliza3 wrote:

IrishGal wrote:Nick's not F1. And I thank goodness for it.  Kaitlin is my fave bette so far and it would break my heart if she hitched herself to that creepy man.  He makes my skin crawl. He's unattractive, he reminds me of Eddie Haskell in the original Leave it to Beaver TV show from the 60s...most of you won't recall that but Eddie was a fake smarmy piece of grossness and that's how I view Nick. He seduced Kait on the internet so that he could make his big comeback and redeem himself...well it didn't work because he is doing the exact same thing. A snake is a snake is a snake. Sorry Nick Chicks but that's just how I feel.

Wish there was a like button!  ITA with your thoughts.  I am hoping that Kaitlyn sees through Nick and at the end exposes him as the player I think he is.

He has proven the otherwise for the whole last year, so I'm more curious to know what do you want to see more?
Or what would you like to see from Nick in the future to say he is not a player as you think?

I find it interesting that people haven't followed him in the last year formed the strongest opinion about him.
I get the hate because how the editing can be manipulative, but what actually has this guy done to deserve this much hate?

I remember how Jaclyn S said so badly about Nick last season, but she stood up for him this season after knowing him in person. She said Nick is there for the girl for real. Not to mention how Julie Berry, Ali, Jillian also all stood up for him.

These certainly have given some insights as to what kind of person Nick is in real life.

Kashathediva wrote:My personal interpretation of "fiancé type behavior" has to do again with timing. Funny how much of this season has to do with timing. IMO.
When the term fiancé type behavior first came up, it was in response to the emotional commitment that was falsely interpreted in the FS which then led to a physical commitment. This is an apple.
The emotional commitment seen last night was not on the same plane. The timing was not the same. The comparison not the same.  
Last night's sex was in the heat of the moment. It was brought up and encouraged by the female and eagerly pursued by both. The emotional commitment had it continued to grow, was not at a fiancé emotional commitment. This was a juicy orange. 
Timing was totally different for the acts and led to a totally different definition, IMO.  
Last night's sex was passion, scratching an itch and not a committal. JMOAA

ITA...you said this perfectly. Nick having sex with Andi was different than sex with Kaitlyn. At this point I think Nick cares about Kaitlyn but they are not at the same level of commitment I believe he (falsely) thought was there with Andi.

I just don't understand all the Nick hate right now. Kaitlyn presented an opportunity for them to explore the physical aspect of their relationship and Nick said yes. I wonder how many of the guys in her group would have said no? Saying yes or no to me isn't good or bad. They are two grown adults making a decision knowing they will have to live with the fallout. Maybe not the decision you or I would have made but it was theirs.

I think Nick is well meaning from having followed him, but given the circumstances, the craziness of the show and the magic paintbrush used by the producers, I totally get why people see him as a player. If I wasn't drawn to Nick in Andi's season, I'd probably think he is a bit shifty as well.

Intentions aside though, even as a Nick Chick, I'm going to admit -- I don't think K & N are a good match. I don't like Shawn but I like Shawn and Kaitlyn together and I think they are actually a much better fit.

Contrary to some of the sentiments being shared on the forum, I think they can actually make it and be in each other's lives forever.

emusha wrote:based on the 2 visits to her room -- there is a very good chance imho shawn's "Demands" really didn't actually allow K to fully compartmentalize the relationships and fully explore them.
guilt, heart break on behalf of someone she cares for... and facing someone who is about to reject her to avoid being rejected, and also if it is true someone who is angry.....

IMHO all of these are very much powerful and mostly negative emotions and that's a lot of influence on K when it comes to her "journey". we'll have to see how she modifies her behavior cos that's what it seems the reshuffling is about particularly due to the sexgate...

maybe this is a unique situation that will not be repeated but i do think that k may have experienced pressure that held her back from really going all the way to explore what there was with nick - i'm curious to see how things unfold and if any of the happenings influence her relationship with nick

IA with this. I keep in mind that S was the one to tell K he was was falling (something she didn't initiate saying but seems to reciprocate/reassure him a lot. There seems to be a lot of moments that come across like S is cornering K and making her choose (or else) and using her own words against her (actions don't match words). 

Wherein Nick's case, he just wants to be there for Kaitlyn, support her, be someone she can confide in and like she even said, Nick made her feel like no one else existed -- she forgot everyone, forgot the cameras too. This was after a friendship formed, confiding and leaning on him post-Ian craziness, and a normal day spent just being themselves and talking about who the are and what they want in life and relationships. A progression that culminated in K forgetting about the so-called "one". Compartmentalizing or whatever, she initiated that herself.

And then S is upset and goes off b/c she gives a rose to Jared which to him he takes as a slap in the face and is going to confront her about it... get her to confess how she really feels about him and once again on camera (just like when he told her "smarter than that/actions don't match words").

It is interesting because I see a natural progression with Nick (just went on show to see whether they're a good fit) and I see a somewhat forced progression with Shawn (LAFS, here's my shirt you can wear, Tragic story and falling in love, never felt like this only for you, and then needing/demanding reciprocation/reassurance by going to get it).

ETA: That being said, I think that K may prefer a guy who does place some demands on her rather than letting her free spirited self roam free. And for Nick, I think his choice in women needs to change. I think his "type" is not what it is actually best for him.

happydays wrote:I think Nick is well meaning from having followed him, but given the circumstances, the craziness of the show and the magic paintbrush used by the producers, I totally get why people see him as a player. If I wasn't drawn to Nick in Andi's season, I'd probably think he is a bit shifty as well.

Intentions aside though, even as a Nick Chick, I'm going to admit -- I don't think K & N are a good match. I don't like Shawn but I like Shawn and Kaitlyn together and I think they are actually a much better fit.

Contrary to some of the sentiments being shared on the forum, I think they can actually make it and be in each other's lives forever.

i was speculating the same what makes you think this?

eliza3 wrote:

IrishGal wrote:Nick's not F1. And I thank goodness for it.  Kaitlin is my fave bette so far and it would break my heart if she hitched herself to that creepy man.  He makes my skin crawl. He's unattractive, he reminds me of Eddie Haskell in the original Leave it to Beaver TV show from the 60s...most of you won't recall that but Eddie was a fake smarmy piece of grossness and that's how I view Nick. He seduced Kait on the internet so that he could make his big comeback and redeem himself...well it didn't work because he is doing the exact same thing. A snake is a snake is a snake. Sorry Nick Chicks but that's just how I feel.

Wish there was a like button!  ITA with your thoughts.  I am hoping that Kaitlyn sees through Nick and at the end exposes him as the player I think he is.

Well we can all have our opinion on who Nick really is, creep or not didn't stop K from liking him and having sex with him. K clearly knew who he was from Andi's season and didn't give a damn and hang even brought up the issue with Nick and Andi last year so clearly she knows something about him that we don't. She seems fine knowing him on a personal and intimate level that says a lot. So have all your opinions we don't know these people in real life just on a TV show that portrays them as characters I don't take too seriously

If Nick is a player am sure some disgruntled girlfriend would have come out of the woods to tell like it's been reported about other contestants in the past. We know he has 2 serious relationships longer and even got engaged. I just think knows what he wants and won't just settle for anyone. He saw K as a potential much, had the courage to talk to her and strike a friendship, couldn't stop her from becoming the bette so he decide to put himself out there again full aware of the potential backlash. He knew what he was getting himself into, he stated when joined in NYC he wanted to see they could have a shot at something special happening, he didn't arrive already in love with K, he also said to the guys during the firing squad there is a good chance K will still end up with one of them. So I think he is good not that it won't suck to not get the girl u like. He seems fine not bitter hence he supports K

emusha wrote:

happydays wrote:I think Nick is well meaning from having followed him, but given the circumstances, the craziness of the show and the magic paintbrush used by the producers, I totally get why people see him as a player. If I wasn't drawn to Nick in Andi's season, I'd probably think he is a bit shifty as well.

Intentions aside though, even as a Nick Chick, I'm going to admit -- I don't think K & N are a good match. I don't like Shawn but I like Shawn and Kaitlyn together and I think they are actually a much better fit.

Contrary to some of the sentiments being shared on the forum, I think they can actually make it and be in each other's lives forever.

i was speculating the same what makes you think this?

Well what I see is that N and S are two completely different types and K is intrigued by both, but ultimately K & S are a better fit in terms of their needs. This is why (JMO ofc, would love to bounce around some thoughts on this!):

Many have speculated that Kaitlyn is immature. IMO, inside Kaitlyn there is a little girl who just wants to be cared for, sort of like a little kid. I remember seeing this interview where she said that she likes it when a guy shows love by giving her a warm towel to wrap around her when she gets out of the shower because she is always cold. Shawn being the more protective/possessive (whatever we want to call it) type, imo, is the guy more likely to show his love this way. From last season, I get the impression that Nick's sort of love is more thought-out, like the storybook we wrote for Andi or giving her a necklace with the sand from the beach where he told her he loved her. I think K likes the simpler things and Shawn can give that to her. I don't think Nick's effort would be as appreciated.

Second, I think Shawn is more of an emotional guy and Nick is more practical -- not sure if those are the right words to go with, but let me explain. Prime e.g. -- Shawn entering this show, imo, he was obviously naive and I don't believe he has sat down to watch a full season from some of the behaviour we are witnessing. Nick on the other hand, studied Des's season to see what he was getting himself into. Going back to what K would appreciate and really wants, I think her type is more of the emotional guy. She acts with emotion and on impulse, as we see with her losing herself in the moment with a few of the guys. I also think that while Nick's mental stimulation is interesting short-term, she needs that emotional connection in the longer term.

And lastly, I think while Nick might find some of K's childishness and habits endearing early on in the relationship (like being scared of birds which personally I find ridiculous), I can definitely see this becoming annoying to him further on. I think Nick is more attracted to someone's traits and qualities, and like I mentioned above, Shawn is more emotional and the love at first sight sort of guy. Being protective in his nature, I think Shawn will be more accepting of K's childishness than Nick will be. I think Nick needs someone more mature.

To summarize, both are different guys who show their love and support in different ways, but K needs a certain type and that type is S. Both guys deserve to be appreciated by their partner and have as much put back into the relationship as much as they have put in, and I don't think K can provide that in the capacity that Nick would want.

^^ ok that was my verbal vomit, interested to hear your thoughts!

EDIT: I really could be reading K all wrong, but this is the impression I am getting from post-filming from her snapchats and interviews.

reason wrote:I have given up on Nick been the final 1 not happening and he might just be better off for it.

This brought an early morning smile to my face. 
I think moving as far away as possible from the franchise is a good thing! I always have and always will.

reason wrote:I have given up on Nick been the final 1 not happening and he might just be better off for it.

IMO Even if Nick was Kaitlyn's F1 I don't see them together long term. Nick is serious and methodical. Kaitlyn lives in the moment and doesn't consider the consequences of her actions.

Their strong physical attraction isn't enough. Eventually their personality differences would collide causing disagreements I don't think they could easily resolve.