Nick Viall - Bachelorette 11 - *Spoilers - Sleuthing* - Discussion #4

Fleiss has been quite "unfleissy" in his tweets of late. First he tweeted about Shawn, then the follow your heart thing. It's almost like he is mocking both guys.

^^ or he has a newborn and he's nicer in general?

emusha wrote:^^ or he has a newborn and he's nicer in general?

I really like Nick, so I do hope that Elan, etc. is not egging him on by telling him to support Kaitlyn and she will reconsider.It would be so embarrassing to be rejected after a proposal and again at the ATFR. It would be Andi 2. Even worse would be Kaitlyn having sex with Shawn after sleeping with Nick, and then picking Shawn because the fans like him and he could promote her better with career goals, as he also has entertainment aspirations. Again, Andi 2. The only way this would possibly be okay is if Nick was being groomed for the bachelor, but they seem to be throwing him to the wolves and Shawn is getting the bachelor edit (and cupcake, even though he is a bit twee). At this point, I would be happier if it turned out Ben H. or Jared was her final one. I would be okay if Nick agreed to be a diversion, because they saw the writing on the wall with Shawn night one. I would not be okay with them initially wanting JJ to be the villian, like Nick had been with Andi, but then JJ got sidetracked with Clint, so they pulled Nick from the sidelines. I would be okay with Nick and Kaitlyn calling it quits because they are too much alike. I am definitely NOT okay with him proposing and being humiliated again. If RS has the goods, then someone better give Nick a whack on the side of the head and tell him to cool it with the sm.

remockered wrote:I really like Nick, so I do hope that Elan, etc. is not egging him on by telling him to support Kaitlyn and she will reconsider.It would be so embarrassing to be rejected after a proposal and again at the ATFR.  It would be Andi 2.  Even worse would be Kaitlyn having sex with Shawn after sleeping with Nick, and then picking Shawn because the fans like him and he could promote her better with career goals, as he also has entertainment aspirations.  Again, Andi 2.  The only way this would possibly be okay is if Nick was being groomed for the bachelor, but they seem to be throwing him to the wolves and Shawn is getting the bachelor edit (and cupcake, even though he is a bit twee).  At this point, I would be happier if it turned out Ben H. or Jared was her final one.  I would be okay if Nick agreed to be a diversion, because they saw the writing on the wall with Shawn night one.  I would not be okay with them initially wanting JJ to be the villian, like Nick had been with Andi, but then JJ got sidetracked with Clint, so they pulled Nick from the sidelines.  I would be okay with Nick and Kaitlyn calling it quits because they are too much alike.  I am definitely NOT okay with him proposing and being humiliated again.  If RS has the goods, then someone better give Nick a whack on the side of the head and tell him to cool it with the sm.

do you think nick and K are alike? in what ways? curious how you perceive that

Both Kaitlyn and Nick are athletic, like to socialize, are sports fans, are blunt, both can rub people the wrong way, both love children, both love movies, both are easily manipulated/trusting/naive in many ways, both are loyal friends, both enjoy punking people, both love to laugh, both love to tease, neither one is overly religious/preachy, etc.

SueSt wrote:^^ Can I just say I hate the duplicitous snake Chris Harrison!!  
ETA: Thanks for bringing the quotes over Lucas.

I had his name legally changed to Chris Manson.

Kaitlyn could be the villain this time if RS spoiler is true that she rejected Nick's proposal. Deanna (and possibly Ashly H but I didn't watch her season) got the backlash because she let Jason got down on the knee and so did Brad 1 who promised Deanna "tomorrow will be good" (something like that). Nick could be the victim this time. It also depends on how he is at ATFR. If he takes the "no regrets, I tried" approach and says nothing more, viewers will sympathize with him. But I don't trust TPTB. I am afraid CH will keeps asking questions and it becomes sex-gate #2. We fans think he's being supportive on sm to K, but others can interpret he's stalker-ish again.
I didn't really watch the first three episode so I am curious to ask how did Shawn got a likeable edit? In ep. 4, he wasn't too impressed that Nick's returned and no too much time spent on him except his abs. We who read the spoilers know he's the frontrunner, but does the general public view it that way too? (Sorry about the OT)

remockered wrote:Both Kaitlyn and Nick are athletic, like to socialize, are sports fans, are blunt, both can rub people the wrong way, both love children, both love movies, both are easily manipulated/trusting/naive in many ways, both are loyal friends, both enjoy punking people, both love to laugh, both love to tease, neither one is overly religious/preachy, etc.

very interesting! thanks for sharing that... sounds like they're on the same wavelength
I think it'll be how they are compatible as support systems and as lovers with each other that can allow them to make a real partnership happen. I think both of them communicate in a similar way and are calm, level headed but go after it head-on when handling conflict which is a very important attribute in a partnership. so if things come up between them that has them clashing cos they're too much alike then i think they might - if they wanted - put on the mature hat and resolve the issues. I still remember how nick was guiding andi through her minefield of temper and attacking  

I think K would enjoy being doted on by nick cos he's a romantic with expressing himself when his feelings are there -- like she told CS her love language is "words"
but def interesting to hear your input since you know nick in person and will be interesting to see how their connection works between them

charriotoffire I'm fascinated by your post in large part because I went through my day I kept thinking of that particular statement from CH and the implications of it. I framed my thoughts in terms of other things I've heard and seen corroborated after years of watching this show. The first one is that TPTB know everything about everybody that goes on the show. Every.single.thing. The second thing is that while CH seems to be a puppet because he's the spokes person and the public face of the show, it's much more accurate to consider him as one of the puppet masters - he tends to play the "good cop" role with many leads. He watches the dailies from the control room (now that most of us have seen UnREAL we get a good idea of what goes on there and what Ashley S stumbled into that was described as the "Accounting Group"). He sees the storyboards, he talks to the producers and executive producers and sees all the interesting footage. If TPTB know everything, CH has access to all of that. What he says is what the show wants him to say and it's part of what goes on behind the curtain, but if TPTB know it, CH knows it. And the last thing was some things that Sarah Gertrude Shapiro said about her time working as a producer on The Bachelor - "It takes a really sophisticated set of skills to be able to manipulate those emotions out of people -- and viewers are so keen to phoniness. A lot of the producers who make reality TV are really, really smart. They’re performing like CIA-level interrogations. ... It’s a chess game you can’t win."

charriotoffire wrote:

Harrison: I would 120 percent question Nick's motives and the way it all went down. When they started talking, they didn't know she'd be the Bachelorette, but he had an idea. So of all people to track down it was Kaitlyn? It seemed too obvious and convenient. So, I was very leery of Nick coming back.

Thanks for bringing this quote Lucas.  

This bothered me.  If Nick knew that K had the possibility of being the bachelorette, why even contact and flirt with her on SM?  Her head should be in the game.
...
The timing of this is suspect.

That's indeed the point that CH raises - why go after Kaitlyn when Nick did? Was he after the girl - or was he after another shot at being on TV?

I am just wondering why he is not respected by other men (now Chris H) , described by people on that plane as loudmouthed jerk but on the other hand sweet to the bachnation women.

Who is the real Nick?   All I know is that Nick has this skill, that no other Bachelor men have shown and that is really looking at and through women.  Really looking at their soul, making them feel super special.  He is like the master of seduction, and that makes him interesting to watch.  Unfortunately, he can't charm other men. He's seen as smarmy wuss who is addicted to drama.

Yes - Nick does certainly charm women but either has little skill, or chooses not to use it, to "charm" men. IMO Nick too good at charming women - and some men may seem him as a "player" and dislike him for that reason.

Maybe K was alerted by some producers about Nick in some form or fashion. Maybe they have information that made K turn around and not decide to pick at the very last minute.   Chris Harrison opinion of Nick is a representation of tbtp's opinion of him.  

They probably were just forced to contact Nick to appear on the show because   Kaitlyn is not interested in anyone at that point but they still do not want Nick to be the "winner"  for whatever reason.

Well I think they knew gold when they saw it and didn't hesitate too long to put Nick on the show because he's certain drama so I don't think there was much forcing involved.

IMO Kaitlyn doesn't suffer fools, and if she thinks something's wrong she will waste no time in addressing it. Her conversation with Kupah showed how quickly she can turn if she doesn't like what she hears, and she reinforced that with Clint where she did the same thing. I'm not going to say this is wrong - personally I respect her for this as many women would be afraid to wade into these waters as quickly as Kaitlyn does.

My theory is that something happens - whether it's something Kaitlyn learns from TPTB or something that Nick says or does I don't know, but I think she turns on him as quickly as she did on Kupah and Clint and that's how the season goes from Kaitlyn's infatuation with Nick that started last night to her negative answer to a proposal (if indeed that spoiler is right) at the end.

On the surface Nick and Kaitlyn would appear to have many things in common. There's something to consider though, when he said to Andi, that he values sexual relations and to him it always means something and what they did was "fiancee type of things" that tells me that he is not okay with being sexually promiscuous or at least a woman being casual about sex. He is brought up in a conservative mormon household afterall.

Another thing, if he is the sex guy which I believe he is, his ego mixed with his attitude toward sex might have influenced him to do it with Kaitlyn before the fantasy dates. In doing that, he already won among the suitors by being the first one on K's bed.

Now, I'm inclined to believe that Kaitlyn had relations with Shawn Booth also and that to me can make her reject both proposals as a pre emptive move cause she knows that Nick will question what they have. It would make sense to me for K to turn down both proposals if she realized that she cannot be sexually faithful to Nick given the opportunity to be alone in bed with a Shawn Booth.

So two reasons why K would turn down a proposal from Nick 1. The producers gave her information that made her question Nick's sincerity and intentions. 2. She had sex with Booth.

More will come up I'm sure, but right now my money is still on the Nick pool. They need to work on their image right now though.

Pulled over on my way to work so I could read Kaitlyn's Blog. I was happy with what she said about Nick as I was expecting her to skim over, the topic, as leads usually dont get into too much details on any given main contestant

Then I go to RS's site to get "the info".......hoping it is about Nick.....but only if it is good. Then I got so upset reading what I did. Got back on the road as to not be late and thought about everything over and over again while I was driving.

There is no way that Kaitlyn would ever let Nick propose after what he went through last season as well as the fact of him being close to her as a friend. I also think he would only propose if he felt sure, and she wouldn't miss lead him when it came to this. imho

If he proposed, then he was the F1 and Kaitlyn just said, too quick too soon, I need to think kind of thing, which could be concluded at the ATFRC.

Do you think the TPTB messed with her head and put doubt in it through the whole filming, so she wouldn't be Nick, Nick, Nick the whole show? That Unreal show, just amazing me with the poop they will say and do to get the show they want. Having Nick show up and it be the Nick show the whole time can't be the show they wanted. I have visions of envelopes of cash being passed around to any producer that can derail that.

........The spoilers for this season are so crazy. ..... I am crazy! ...Crazy for Nick!!

I spend Monday night sticking up for him all show because all my friends hate him, as they only watch the shows (no behind the scenes). Even had to pre watch the show by myself so I could enjoy the Nick moments without all the background heckling. If it ends with him being F2 I don't think I can deal with all of them laughing

Hard to be a Nick fan sometimes...but he is worth it...