Re: Nick Viall Bachelorette 11 - Fan Forum - ***SLEUTHING - SPOILERS*** - Thread #14

[happygolucky]

TopShelf, it's endearing to read your ardent position ... and I so empathize with you, because I've been there myself last year. But I'm not sure how positive can I stay here to write you another side of this story - so if this message has to be moved to general discussion thread, so be it.

1) K can't backtrack the act, so the best way for the best image is to own it.
2) she also can't say to regret it ... because she lives by the rule of "Dare, be bold, be you, seize the moment" ... so she can only go forward and find the positive meaning in the "mistake" - and she has, she now openly states that's one challenge that she and the possible "partner" had to overcome and if they made it ... they got out of it stronger.
3) she is distancing herself from the act and tries not to mention it or Nick much in her snapchat/blog/interviews, unless it is brought up by others and that's when she tries to be as respectful and short as possible.

4) I believe she is very much aware of her own role and own part she took in that whole "situation" and I'm not referring to only sex, but also the fact that SHE brought Nick on, including the pre-season SM part ... so it is in her best interest to continue to acknowledge that and act accordingly. Meaning: giving Nick the respect for his involvement in her season, but there is no repressed love underneath.

5) I don't have a Snapchat so I don't follow, but from the information floating here, she referred multiple times to Shawn, his physic and his "charm" (when it comes to his winning battles: first introduction, rap, ...) and for a very physical person herself, that's telling, since it is important to her.

6) Sharleen knows the outcome, that's also the reason she is distancing herself from going into more elaborated discussion and reviewing the episodes, because she knows before, during and after production, she knows the reasons for Nick's come-back, she knows the reasons for Kaitlyn's choice and she needs to be fair to both and respect those decisions.
She also acknowledged in her Flare review, that Nick's got the "lust" edit for this season ... and that's not the edit for F1.

7) Nick has a bad rep to start with, so obviously Kaitlyn had to justify to the viewers why she let him in, so she emphasized her belief that he was there for the right reasons, but now that he is on, she doesn't need to support him anymore or his actions. Nick is on his own. She's not his silent/private partner. She's the lead and thus for she will play the game, including play him if necessary.

8) Nick's tweets, read through the eyes of F2, support the story we're seeing.

9) Shapchat-gate-video is a "taboo" topic for anyone close to TPTB. It's said that the media who reported it and exposed it as a spoiler are now cut out of their previous deal with TPTB. The only "permitted" statement articles are the one that place doubt in the video.

10) TPTB took very drastic measures the day after, placing both involved in the video in the spotlight in different places: K flown to Chi, Shawn out and about in Nashville, while he wasn't even seen/spotted for over a month before and continues to be m.i.a. after very "rumored night" (since all the gossip comes from the same weekend) - gives the idea of damage control by TPTB.

11) US weekly are the "official spoiler magazine" by TPTB, they always get the scoop directly from them, this year no difference, and they are publishing the same edited story as the spoiler given to the Oracle a.k.a. Smug1 (RS) ... that F2 proposed (Nick) and was turned down.

[Guest]

OK, You probably convinced me that you are right! But, tell me this, what about Shawn being out with other women, there are some photos. What do you make of that?

[happygolucky]

Just Jared site had those photos, I believe they were taken the same Saturday night that Shawn was sent to "mingle the crowd" after Friday's SC-video, and the photos aren't compromising to be considered a threat.

I don't like gossip ... so I'm probably annoying about it when I say, if we believe a gossip about one, then we should believe the gossip about the other.
It's hypocritical of the fans to be selective and only believe the one part that suits them.

So I dismiss the gossip about Nick & Whitney like I dismiss the gossip about Shawn.
The same goes with the edit. If I believe that the producers manipulated Kaitlyn for that "balcony talk about regret" and I believe that Nick's edit is a manipulation, so that the viewers would see the "all the negative terms" his actions portray ... then I have to give a benefit of a doubt to Shawn's behavior too. Also I believe there is a nice kept secret behind it.
I keep my conclusion on the finale proposal until I see the ending credits of ATFR.

PS. TopShelf, I don't want to be right, but I wish you to be prepared, because it stings to have hopes up and then a disillusion kicks in.

[Guest]

Well you set me straight and I appreciate the info. I'd hire you as an advocate any day! You lay out a good case for Shawn in the end. I suppose I should try to like them together now. Bleh.

[stuckinsc]

Top Shelf, most of us held out hope until the very end last season that Nick would be F1.  We interpreted SM and other stuff and hoped against hope that the plane video was a foiler.  

I also think Nick is being portrayed closer to his true self this year.  I think he is a flirt and likes to be physical.  I just don't think he and Kaitlyn have all that many deep conversations and personally, it is because I don't think Kaitlyn does too deep.  I think she is very self-aware, but I don't think Kaitlyn thinks a lot about the world around her and such.  I think she still appreciates and a good time and a lot of fun more than deep discussion, but I could be wrong.

I agree with everything HGL has said except, I do find Shawn's aggression and confrontation of Kaitlyn a bit telling.  They can lead you to say things in interviews but how you act is on you and you alone.  He didn't have to react to anything he was told by confronting Kaitlyn.  The fact he did it twice and also tried to tell her not to pick Nick at NYC RC is all on him.  As is the incredibly immature refusal to call Nick by name the first week.  I don't blame that on the producers, I think that is all him.

That being said, he and Kaitlyn have a much more organic connection to me than K&N.  I think they had a lot of fun flirting, but nothing deeper developed in person.  Partly because I really believe by the time that Nick showed up that Shawn was already in her heart and her number one.  Now, I do believe if K&N were meant to be, that it wouldn't have mattered how much she was into Shawn, she would have still picked Nick, so at the end of the day, just like Nick said he is lucky that Andi picked Josh, he is also lucky that Kaitlyn picked Shawn.  He deserves that person who would chose him no matter what or who, at least in my opinion.

Anyway, feel free to believe. We all did last year, if you go read the archived fan threads from last season, you will see that we very much where you are now and we were very much ridiculed for it.  I think we are all a lot more wary this year, since we had our hearts broken along with Nick last year and our bachelorette has seemed to purposely spoil her season herself along with being giddy and glowing when she talks about Shawn and almost passive and minimizing when she talks about Nick.  I personally think Kaitlyn was sick of having to pretend she picked no one and decided to accidentally on purpose spoil her season to allow her to show her happiness and to have the world know her fiance bought her flowers for her birthday, etc.

So it is hard for me to even try to ignore the spoiler.  As for RS and the proposal, I hope he is wrong as he seems to be a lot this season, but I can see TPTB making it happen in the hopes of having Nick heartbroken and therefore redeemed to more of the general public.  I think they wanted him open as a bachelor option if they needed him.  Like him or hate him, he increases the public's interest. Unfortunately, with the backlash over pre-FS sex, I don't think there is any chance of choosing him, so he would have gone through the humiliation for nothing.

My greatest hope is that this season ended whatever commitment and requirements that he had to make up for last year's plane video and that he can remove himself from the bachelor world and find someone great.  I personally think he and Whitney might make a great couple, but will not put any stock in them hanging out until it happens after the season and more than once.

[Sprite]

Stuck, I like both Nick and Whitney, but I just can't see them as a couple. I think Whitney is just a little too prim and proper for our Nick. She seems to be a lovely person and very probably on par with Nick intellectually, professionally and in how she conducts herself socially. She would love his family and vise versa, but I just don't see her making him laugh and bringing out that silly, goofy side that we know Nick has and I think he really needs that in a partner.

[stuckinsc]

Stuck, I like both Nick and Whitney, but I just can't see them as a couple. I think Whitney is just a little too prim and proper for our Nick. She seems to be a lovely person and very probably on par with Nick intellectually, professionally and in how she conducts herself socially. She would love his family and vise versa, but I just don't see her making him laugh and bringing out that silly, goofy side that we know Nick has and I think he really needs that in a partner.

Probably true, I was hoping that her friendship with Becca and Kaitlyn meant there was a fun and goofy side to her that we just didn't see. I thought they edited her to be the "lady" and I am was hoping that she might be a little goofier, because if she and Nick worked out, she would be loved and adored the way she deserved and have the family she craves, while also loving someone in return who would be worthy of her.

I know it probably won't happen, but it is my little hope.

[Gale1]

Stuck, I like both Nick and Whitney, but I just can't see them as a couple. I think Whitney is just a little too prim and proper for our Nick. She seems to be a lovely person and very probably on par with Nick intellectually, professionally and in how she conducts herself socially. She would love his family and vise versa, but I just don't see her making him laugh and bringing out that silly, goofy side that we know Nick has and I think he really needs that in a partner.

No I don't agree there as I think that Whitney also has a rather silly, funny side to herself as well & personally think they would make an ideal couple. They both as far as I can see want the same things in life a good profession, both equally intelligent, both wanting a family & equally as goofy at times.

[happygolucky]

I have to jump in because calling "ideal" for me is a stretch ... Whitney watched Andi's season, she liked Chris (of all people! ... sorry), which to me says a lot about her, it tells me that she didn't get Nick, that she might not "speak his language" (a la Sharleen) ... I have nothing against her or any kind of relationship, but I do want the best for Nick and I wish him to recognize his Great Love when the time comes, that will feel seamlessly right.

[mysthelma]

I have to jump in because calling "ideal" for me is a stretch ... Whitney watched Andi's season, she liked Chris (of all people! ... sorry), which to me says a lot about her, it tells me that she didn't get Nick, that she might not "speak his language" (a la Sharleen) ... I have nothing against her or any kind of relationship, but I do want the best for Nick and I wish him to recognize his Great Love when the time comes, that will feel seamlessly right.

I totally agree with you. I don't see the ideal match too. For someone who gushed about CS and wanted to marry him without and go live in Iowa I not a good match for Nick. Plus I for one would not want Nick to date or have a relationship with Whitney. Can you imagine the thongs CS will say about Nick. Sorry Whitney May be a great girl but not for Nick

[Gale1]

I have to jump in because calling "ideal" for me is a stretch ... Whitney watched Andi's season, she liked Chris (of all people! ... sorry), which to me says a lot about her, it tells me that she didn't get Nick, that she might not "speak his language" (a la Sharleen) ... I have nothing against her or any kind of relationship, but I do want the best for Nick and I wish him to recognize his Great Love when the time comes, that will feel seamlessly right.

I totally agree with you. I don't see the ideal match too. For someone who gushed about CS and wanted to marry him without and go live in Iowa I not a good match for Nick. Plus I for one would not want Nick to date or have a relationship with Whitney. Can you imagine the thongs CS will say about Nick. Sorry Whitney May be a great girl but not for Nick

We can all make mistakes with our choices in life. I did been divorced & remarried & thought the 1st was the real deal only to find out I had been blind sided so don't disrespect Whitney for making a huge error with Chris Soules she is only human & we can all make a huge oops in life!! So hoping these 2 (Whit & Nic) don't carry on choosing the wrong one's & one day get their ideal partners. Which of cause as you all know by now I would love them both to hook up together!!

[happygolucky]

Gale, I don't hold it against her, I just think the "understanding" might be more complicated between the 2.

That said, Nick has now 2 different "failed/doomed" relationships behind, that we've witnessed. In both cases the mistakes were made, so I don't hold it against him either. But it tells me he is seeking the relationship that is more of a challenge (exciting and unpredictable, animated and passionate) and he falls for that kind of women who keep him on his toes and who he sees as his opposite ... and I fear, that's not the "winning" formula for him.

That's why I wish he would recognize the beauty even in the smooth sail in someone close to home, someone of his "own kind", who gets him completely. The life offers already enough of the rough waters ...and I wish for Nick to find his "skipper/copilot" who understands him on the first call ...and then chase the wind with her.

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