Nick Viall - Bachelorette 11 - *Spoilers - Sleuthing* - Discussion #3

luvlady345 wrote:But the same can be said about every bachelor/rette non fans peggy..  That's what makes the world go around some people will like you and some won't...  I personally hope Nick is F1, then his journey will be complete......

I agree, people always see what they want to see.
I'm well aware of the polarizing character Nick is having, so I really am trying to understand the other side of thoughts, not trying to want people to change their minds.

So I am trying to understand what the non fans base their opinions on, trying if I see what they see.
But so far, I really cannot see something solid that led to a belief Nick is in it for frame.

mprssdbyu wrote:Just out of curiosity, since Andi conveniently found herself laughing and talking, laying her head on Nick's shoulder  with her friend Christy in Chicago, has she included any instagrams of her and Christy together again outside of Chicago esp since it became public knowledge Nick was all about Kaitlyn instead?

What, huh? What are you trying to say?

IMO As far as putting anyone on a pedestal, there is no difference between Nick's Fan threads and any other Fan thread on this forum. One can say, they are all put on a pedestal if that's the description one wants to use.

sdmom wrote:Here's what the man said himself :
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/seanlowe/2014/08/nick-why-i-brought-up-the-fantasy-suite/

"To me what’s most important is that the two people involved have a clear understanding of what sex means to the other person. If the emotional attachment to sex isn’t equal, sex can be hurtful."
"Sex, when enjoyed in the right context, is a wonderful way to solidify a relationship. But when expectations aren’t the same for both partners, it can be devastating."

IMO, Nick doesn't regard sex can only happen between fiances. What happened between him and Andi was they didn't have the same understanding of what sex meant in that particular situation ("In my mind, I went back to that night in the fantasy suite. Though she couldn’t tell me that she loved me, I’d told her in no uncertain terms how I felt. I loved her. This was no fling for me. As far as I was concerned, we’d be engaged in a few days.

To me, sex between us was a big deal, and she knew it.

That’s why I feel Andi’s decision to have sex with me was not appropriate")

Maybe this time between him and Kaitlyn was different? We just have to wait and see!

Sorry Mods for bringing this up. If you think it not appropriate, please delete it. I apologize for any troubles this may bring.

To me, the problem with what Nick said (which he may truly believe in theory, but I wonder whether he has always adhered to it IN PRACTICE), is that open communication and total honesty are not really possible within the confines of this show, where the lead is in the power position, and doing the choosing, and he should have known that.

eta, Yes, as I said in my earlier post, ANYONE (not just Nick) who is put on a pedestal by their fans is going to be fair game to get knocked off. That's the way it goes.

At one point Andi was spending a lot if time with Christy (from Chicago). Are they still hanging together alot now that its public knowledge Nick is all about Kaitlyn?

peggy0221 wrote:

luvlady345 wrote:But the same can be said about every bachelor/rette non fans peggy..  That's what makes the world go around some people will like you and some won't...  I personally hope Nick is F1, then his journey will be complete......

I agree, people always see what they want to see.
I'm well aware of the polarizing character Nick is having, so I really am trying to understand the other side of thoughts, not trying to want people to change their minds.

So I am trying to understand what the non fans base their opinions on, trying if I see what they see.
But so far, I really cannot see something solid that led to a belief Nick is in it for frame.

For me I have my opinion of Nick comes from how he was on his first go around, so forgive me if I don't read what Nick himself put out because if I don't like someone I don't follow them..

mprssdbyu wrote:At one point Andi was spending a lot if time with Christy (from Chicago). Are they still hanging together alot now that its public knowledge Nick is all about Kaitlyn?

But what does one has to do with the other? That's what I am not following, Andi is living in NY, so I doubt if she is hanging with Christy now, when she lives in Chicago......

luvlady345 wrote:

mprssdbyu wrote:At one point Andi was spending a lot if time with Christy (from Chicago). Are they still hanging together alot now that its public knowledge Nick is all about Kaitlyn?

But what does one has to do with the other? That's what I am not following, Andi is living in NY, so I doubt if she is hanging with Christy now, when she lives in Chicago......

MeandI was able to hang out in Chicago with Christy while living in the ATL., so why not now?

ironcat wrote:

sdmom wrote:Here's what the man said himself :
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/seanlowe/2014/08/nick-why-i-brought-up-the-fantasy-suite/

"To me what’s most important is that the two people involved have a clear understanding of what sex means to the other person. If the emotional attachment to sex isn’t equal, sex can be hurtful."
"Sex, when enjoyed in the right context, is a wonderful way to solidify a relationship. But when expectations aren’t the same for both partners, it can be devastating."

IMO, Nick doesn't regard sex can only happen between fiances. What happened between him and Andi was they didn't have the same understanding of what sex meant in that particular situation ("In my mind, I went back to that night in the fantasy suite. Though she couldn’t tell me that she loved me, I’d told her in no uncertain terms how I felt. I loved her. This was no fling for me. As far as I was concerned, we’d be engaged in a few days.

To me, sex between us was a big deal, and she knew it.

That’s why I feel Andi’s decision to have sex with me was not appropriate")

Maybe this time between him and Kaitlyn was different? We just have to wait and see!

Sorry Mods for bringing this up. If you think it not appropriate, please delete it. I apologize for any troubles this may bring.

To me, the problem with what Nick said (which he may truly believe in theory, but I wonder whether he has always adhered to it IN PRACTICE), is that open communication and total honesty are not really possible within the confines of this show, where the lead is in the power position, and doing the choosing, and he should have known that.

eta, Yes, as I said in my earlier post, ANYONE (not just Nick) who is put on a pedestal by their fans is going to be fair game to get knocked off.  That's the way it goes.

Sex is not a prerequisite of this show -- it's also not something that is captured on film and where producers convince the people involved to do sex a certain way or another etc.
Sex even on this show happens between two people in the private space with no external influence. Nick revealed his feelings and Andi was aware of the fact that he was "making love" with her cos he loved her...he said that on film and I assume he said he off camera. Andi could have chosen to go forward with sex OR NOT given that knowledge she has of nick and his feelings. she chose to have sex with him and while she was NOT on camera she could also share with him what her thoughts were on sex without any producer pressure. She did not. Then the AFTR came and she told him she had NO falling in love feelings for him, none. so then he asked her why she made love with him with the understanding that he had those deep feelings and without clarifying that she was coming at sex from a very different angle.

IMHO the fact that the cameras are there and the producers deceive people does not give full license  for everyone even in private settings to continue the farce. there have even been leads who chose to ON CAMERA to tell the F2 the truth and chose not to have sex with him openly (Ali and CL) 

Sorry but this does not sound like any pedestal to me  it sounds like two people who did not communicate openly about their expectations of sex - particularly Andi could have been more forthcoming than she was.

If he shows up on Bachelor Pad, he may just be our next Chris Bukowski.

IA emusha

but I'd like to add, that I think honesty is very possible from the lead. Kaitlyn just did. Sean did, the reverse, no sex for no one.

It's when everything is kept a secret, or when the lead deserves an Oscar for their performance that problems occur later on. As Kaitlyn said, she's not the only one that has had sex before the FS, its just that they don't talk about it.

FLChica wrote:

luvlady345 wrote:

mprssdbyu wrote:At one point Andi was spending a lot if time with Christy (from Chicago). Are they still hanging together alot now that its public knowledge Nick is all about Kaitlyn?

But what does one has to do with the other? That's what I am not following, Andi is living in NY, so I doubt if she is hanging with Christy now, when she lives in Chicago......

MeandI was able to hang out in Chicago with Christy while living in the ATL., so why not now?

Christy now lives in Atl and is always hanging out the Kelly. And if I remember right Andi only went visit Christy once.