Nick Viall - Bachelorette 11 - *Spoilers - Sleuthing* - Discussion

SueSt wrote:Emusha, thanks for the awesome timeline/analysis!!  

I really appreciate your well considered conclusion that K&N have already met.  And the implication that Nick is already all-in (friends cautioning) vs. K who is conflicted about wanting to pursue things with Nick directly (“you’re killing me”) vs. become the Bach’ette is very compelling.    I didn’t watch K on the Bach, but anyone with a heart (not Andi) should have empathy for Nick given the circumstances and the risks he appears willing to take for a shot at love.  Like you, I cautiously hope that even if they don’t end up together, that their story will have a more satisfying (compassionate) ending.

ETA: I do wonder how the producers will play this.... how much of K&N's SM (more than SM) interaction they will reveal when Nick comes on the show...  Hmmm???  


PS - Mods, not sure why my post is in italics...

Great post! Emusha

Interesting psychological profile …  

Nick seems to come alive in an environment where he has a singular focus, where he has to ‘work for it.’  (twitter: "Love is everything it's cracked up to be…It really is worth fighting for, being brave for, risking everything for") He’s had some time back in the real world where it’s obvious he had a lot of offers from women, but none has stuck (instagram: I’d rather let love find me.)  For this reason, it’s hard, from what we’ve seen so far, to imagine him being the active decision maker as the Bach…

Instead, it seems he’s most ‘comfortable’ when he has to fight, compete and earn confirmation (first 1 on 1 with Andi: I really have a tough time not knowing where I stand).  And there are countless examples of Nick “coloring outside the lines” and receiving confirmation on the prior season of the Bach’ette.  

Interestingly, Nick will begin his engagement on K’s show with K’s endorsement.  He’s not just one of the guys, playing by the rules; K has to confirm that she wants him there (and he’s special.)  He’s already outside the standard parameters of the show; requiring K to give him special dispensation to compete.  

Expect more of Nick breaking the rules!!  It seems like he needs it and thrives because of it.

And for the viewer, it sets him up as a sort of archetypal knight in shining armor; offering the grand gesture, laying it all on the line (Dinant: Go big or go home), ready to fight for what he wants and so it draws us (and the woman) in …. since it’s all very romantic … How will K be able to resist???  I’m already panting!!    

The downside of course (and I feel your pain AllAboutLove) is that he could lose the girl and his heart… but this is Nick, and I think this is truly what he needs.  And his fight against ‘impossible odds’ (his letter: [to] “put it on the line” enough to truly have a chance at something special) really is the stuff of fairy tales…. And it’s the reason I’m so invested!! ;-)

Hang on to your hats!

Loving these posts, emusha, mindless, and Sue Nick knows what he is getting into this time around and thus he must really be sincere about his intentions and have a plan and I cannot see Kaitlyn putting him through more heartache if she knows anything about him or watched his season.

I am going to be like Nick and keep my hopes alive but also keep my Nick-wits about me

  Sue!

I agree that we will be seeing a different side to Nick.  More irreverent than ever because he has an outlier personality. 
I do believe he was required to spend too much time reaffirming his interest in A. which took time away from him being his full self. Some of his previous "motivators" may have been more out of neccesity than preference.   It will be interesting see if anything changes this season in that regard. Different woman - should be exciting!

From his SM he reveals himself to be uninhibited and comical.  If he expresses his passionate side full on with "steam & fire" before the FS the we will know he is all in. If that happens I predict at least 25 shades of grey. Yep.

I think he only breaks rules that get in the way of him finding out what he needs to know. It's not a premeditated thing, it's just that some of the show "rules" interfere with his quest to discover if the relationship is worth it. 

Great catch on the 1-1 date quote - "not knowing where I stand".  Coming in on week 4 does place him in the running because there is a cost to Kaitlyn in accepting him at this point.  Remember his old bio and him saying he wants a reciprocal relationship. Now that is the basis of their budding relationship so he may not have further need of validation on that matter. Very unlike last season. 

I do think he was active in the decision. IMO he got rid of what were obtacles last time before he even came on this season. He came late to make sure that Kaitlyn was as willing as he was to "risk".   totally agree that he required an endorsement (great choice of descriptor, Sue)  which is fair as he specifically is there for her and therefore wants her to specifically want him there as she has foreknowledge of him. He may have even been the one to ask for Sharleen to be in the audience with him and later meet with Kaitlyn that afternoon at the rap GD ( pic taking area).  Perhaps Sharleen was there to be his 2nd pair of eyes as a final opinion of whether, when Nick spoke with Kaitlyn, Sharleen saw anything that would cause her concern.  If true, Sharleen seems to have given her perceptive go ahead. I think he did these things so that once they did begin their relationship exploration he wouldn't have to focus on doubts of why she is keeping him around. Instead he can just submit to whatever he is feeling and sensing like typical dating is for him. 

  He could lose the girl but if that happens it will be for the same reason he isn't with Andi. Not the right one.  The right girl is the one you end up marrying. If Kaitlyn and Nick can't mutually see a future as a couple then he will have confirmation of that... no what if.

I have no basis for this but it still is something my inner self thinks is true.

I think Sharleen knew Kaitlyn was in town for GMA and wanted to see and meet her, after all she was a fan.
I think it's possible that Nick, Kaitlyn, Sharleen and her fiancé all met at some point, in NYC.

Maybe the fiancé saw some sparks with Nick and Kaityn and or saw that she is a little spitfire in a good way. I never took the girl is trouble meaning in a bad way but in an endearing way.

I thought the picture of Sharleen and Nick jumping in the air was different at first but maybe they were having such a blast and maybe Kaitlyn was doing that with them in another picture that we didn't get to see. We know Kaitlyn did jump up in the air in the photos taken by the photographer in Vancouver.

great posts sue, allaboutlove notarose
I kinda feel like there's something old school about how romantic Nick is... it seems so out of the norm in 2015 to a point people see him as "creepy" -- I was actually thinking Nick reminds me of a cooler and wittier Ted Mosbey from How I met your mother if any of yall have seen that show.

He's so dynamic he needs someone who's also dynamic to compliment him in different ways. Whether or not him and Kaitlyn make it - it's still a treat for us to be able to see him in action and to see him date again in this day and age when romance is giving way to the hookup culture... for some reason the fact that these two were in touch before makes it feel like real "dating" to me... they've tweeted/likely texted or talked on the phone maybe even met up super casually and deepened crushes on each other...

I think Kaitlyn is multidimensional enough for him to stay engaged and excited - I see them as a Bonnie and Clyde type pairing. I have seen a bunch of stuff about her being in it for the fame, however, and that's given me pause. But it's probably also because the power rests soley in her hands now and we know that leads' edits generally get tarnished at some point. I don't pull her down a peg just cos she's on the bette and didn't give that up to date nick ...at the stage they were at - it didn't really make sense

Lucky Kaitlyn is going to experience the skilled passionate kisser that is Nick!! Never thought CS was that good of a kisser

notarose wrote:He came late to make sure that Kaitlyn was as willing as he was to "risk". yes  totally agree that he required an endorsement (great choice of descriptor, Sue)  which is fair as he specifically is there for her and therefore wants her to specifically want him there as she has foreknowledge of him. He may have even been the one to ask for Sharleen to be in the audience with him and later meet with Kaitlyn that afternoon ( pic taking area).  Perhaps Sharleen was there to be his 2nd pair of eyes as a final opinion of whether, when Nick spoke with Kaitlyn, Sharleen saw anything that would cause her concern.  If true, Sharleen seems to have given her perceptive go ahead. I think he did these things so that once they did begin their relationship exploration he wouldn't have to focus on doubts of why she is keeping him around. Instead he can just submit to whatever he is feeling and sensing like typical dating is for him.

I totally agree with the bolded and even would go far enough to say that Kaitlyn also likely wanted to see that it was more than a mere flirtation from him -- could he take a huge leap and go on the show for her?? So I think she was also looking for that validation and reciprocity since she's the one who started the social media flirtation.... Both of them have taken risks at this point solidifying their  interest in exploring something romantic between them. Great point on the reciprocity bit -- I think they're doing great so far and I wouldn't at all be surprised based on how Kailtyn was talking about the show and her questions to CS during WTA that she also would be looking for the ways to work the system to be empathetic and to let her relationship grow...She also really enjoyed the realness of her time with CS indicating she'd want to find ways to make the relationship as real as possible

I also completely agree that Nick was breaking rules that were show-created but that stood in the way of him getting to know the girl -- remember his first special quality time with Andi -- when he got her flowers, he said if he was in the real world dating a girl he'd get her flowers ...so that was him keeping it "real". Andi did require him to spend inordinate amounts of time giving/reassuring/chasing her... and I didn't see her give him much at all...

I just saw the group date photo with Nick in it! So, I guess that confirms it, right? Kaitlyn let him join the show! This is going to be gooooood!

I am also enjoying all of the posts about Nick's romanticism and sensuality! Keep them coming, ladies!

notarose wrote:snipped
I do think he was active in the decision. IMO he got rid of what were obtacles last time before he even came on this season. He came late to make sure that Kaitlyn was as willing as he was to "risk".   totally agree that he required an endorsement (great choice of descriptor, Sue)  which is fair as he specifically is there for her and therefore wants her to specifically want him there as she has foreknowledge of him. He may have even been the one to ask for Sharleen to be in the audience with him and later meet with Kaitlyn that afternoon at the rap GD ( pic taking area).  Perhaps Sharleen was there to be his 2nd pair of eyes as a final opinion of whether, when Nick spoke with Kaitlyn, Sharleen saw anything that would cause her concern.  If true, Sharleen seems to have given her perceptive go ahead. I think he did these things so that once they did begin their relationship exploration he wouldn't have to focus on doubts of why she is keeping him around. Instead he can just submit to whatever he is feeling and sensing like typical dating is for him. 

  He could lose the girl but if that happens it will be for the same reason he isn't with Andi. Not the right one.  The right girl is the one you end up marrying. If Kaitlyn and Nick can't mutually see a future as a couple then he will have confirmation of that... no what if.

Regarding the bolded. It makes complete sense also given that this season started out with 2 bettes. Nick not showing up night one will let everyone, including Kaitlyn, know that his "vote" so to speak is in person, not manipulated at all or where there may be any doubt cast on whom he is there for.

It is such a genuine gesture on Nick's part and there is no way IMO that Nick would have been there night one. He wants no doubt in anyone's mind (viewers, sleuthers, and Kaitlyn) that he is there for one girl only.

What a romantic man! Kaitlyn (or any girl for that matter), whether knowing Nick prior to filming or not, would be nuts to say no to someone who lays it ALL on the line like Nick. Bold, courageous, an old-school romantic maverick - that's Nick.

Either way, I think Nick will be okay. I think he will be even more upfront with Kaitlyn not to string him along and so, whatever edit he gets doesn't even matter (to me) because his entrance says it all - he is doing this for a real chance at a lasting love.

If it is not there, Nick will rather eliminate himself this time around, IMO than let himself be puppeteered. I think he will be wise enough to know what Kaitlyn feels for him and whether it is authentic (and she is a different girl completely than Andi.. Kaitlyn is a straight shooter). He also knows the tricks of the show and the producers and he knows how the guys can be when competing for a girl. He even came in later, so he's even more prepared. It really will come down to Kaitlyn and if she doesn't see that connection lasting, imo. Just him being there is putting it all on the line.

Brill wrote:I have no basis for this but it still is something my inner self thinks is true.

I think Sharleen knew Kaitlyn was in town for GMA and wanted to see and meet her, after all she was a fan.
I think it's possible that Nick, Kaitlyn, Sharleen and her fiancé all met at some point, in NYC.

Maybe the fiancé saw some sparks with Nick and Kaityn and or saw that she is a little spitfire in a good way.  I never took the girl is trouble meaning in a bad way but in an endearing way.  

I thought the picture of Sharleen and Nick jumping in the air was different at first but maybe they were having such a blast and maybe Kaitlyn was doing that with them in another picture that we didn't get to see. We know Kaitlyn did jump up in the air in the photos taken by the photographer in Vancouver.  

omg this makes so much sense in my head!!!

Kaitlyn is Canadian - Sharleen is Canadian... not sure how Nick ended up in NYC but I can definitely see it as all of them hanging out together in NYC. Sharleen and Kaitlyn surely set up a meetup cos they're both fans of each other. maybe Sharleen told Nick to fly over and hangout for the weekend cos they'd struck up a friendship and had expressed mutual like for Kaitlyn?? Not sure who made the move to bring Nick over but maybe both sharleen and kaitlyn told him to come over and hang with them in NYC for the weekend?? I prefer this story so much more than the one where the producers are driving the intros... I could even see it as Sharleen met up with Kaitlyn and Nick came up in the convo and they decided to try to get him to NYC -- maybe Kaitlyn was the one who said she has a bit of a crush on him and knows Sharleen is a fan of his...

I definitely see where the fiance's "watch out, that girl is trouble" could be endearing, natural and totally casual/fun in this case & make sense...
In this scenario Sharleen being at the rap show as audience totally makes sense - why her over any other former contestant (and Ashley I being invited makes sense cos she's close to Kaitlyn she kept saying during the Michelle Money video group chat that she'd just talked to Kaitlyn etc. etc.). I actually am thinking that the audience member situation might have been a ruse to bring Nick in casually while keeping it in the format of when Andi brought her girl friends to judge the stripping prowess of the guys in the beginning of the show... they could have brought one of the other girls from CS' season but they brought Sharleen and Nick instead. Bringing Sharleen covers things up... I think the fact that the guys got to see him as an audience member also helps them get used to the idea of him whether or not they think it's fair... they might think is she gonna pull in any random bloke from the street?? but it's not as wild and dramatic as when shantel joined during Ben's rose ceremony

(SPOILER): "Bachelorette" date is a two-stepping date today at Gruene Hall at 4:00pm in New Braunfels, TX.

emusha wrote:

Brill wrote:I have no basis for this but it still is something my inner self thinks is true.

I think Sharleen knew Kaitlyn was in town for GMA and wanted to see and meet her, after all she was a fan.
I think it's possible that Nick, Kaitlyn, Sharleen and her fiancé all met at some point, in NYC.

Maybe the fiancé saw some sparks with Nick and Kaityn and or saw that she is a little spitfire in a good way.  I never took the girl is trouble meaning in a bad way but in an endearing way.  

I thought the picture of Sharleen and Nick jumping in the air was different at first but maybe they were having such a blast and maybe Kaitlyn was doing that with them in another picture that we didn't get to see. We know Kaitlyn did jump up in the air in the photos taken by the photographer in Vancouver.  

omg this makes so much sense in my head!!!

Kaitlyn is Canadian - Sharleen is Canadian... not sure how Nick ended up in NYC but I can definitely see it as all of them hanging out together in NYC. Sharleen and Kaitlyn surely set up a meetup cos they're both fans of each other. maybe Sharleen told Nick to fly over and hangout for the weekend cos they'd struck up a friendship and had expressed mutual like for Kaitlyn?? Not sure who made the move to bring Nick over but maybe both sharleen and kaitlyn told him to come over and hang with them in NYC for the weekend?? I prefer this story so much more than the one where the producers are driving the intros... I could even see it as Sharleen met up with Kaitlyn and Nick came up in the convo and they decided to try to get him to NYC -- maybe Kaitlyn was the one who said she has a bit of a crush on him and knows Sharleen is a fan of his...  

I definitely see where the fiance's "watch out, that girl is trouble" could be endearing, natural and totally casual/fun in this case & make sense...
In this scenario Sharleen being at the rap show as audience totally makes sense - why her over any other former contestant (and Ashley I being invited makes sense cos she's close to Kaitlyn she kept saying during the Michelle Money video group chat that she'd just talked to Kaitlyn etc. etc.). I actually am thinking that the audience member situation might have been a ruse to bring Nick in casually while keeping it in the format of when Andi brought her girl friends to judge the stripping prowess of the guys in the beginning of the show... they could have brought one of the other girls from CS' season but they brought Sharleen and Nick instead. Bringing Sharleen covers things up... I think the fact that the guys got to see him as an audience member also helps them get used to the idea of him whether or not they think it's fair... they might think is she gonna pull in any random bloke from the street?? but it's not as wild and dramatic as when shantel joined during Ben's rose ceremony

This is all making a lot of sense to me too. That ssaid, I do think production had some involvement.

Sharlene is so well liked (at least on this forum!) but she's not a candidate for any future episode. She blogs the show and was very kind/fair to both Nick and Kaitlyn. She and Kaitlyn are both Canadians. Kaitlyn and Nick are flirting on Twitter.

And, think about this fan thread ... Mura had us all on the SharNick train if he was F2. So that shipped may have sailed now that Sharlene is engaged to a seriously HOT man, but new ship is on the horizon ... Kaitlyn.

What better meet cute than for ABC to involve SHarlene in the match making :cutesmile!: And it's a win-win as Sharlene gets (hopefully!) a little financial incentive plus a very positive appearance on TV, which could help career wise.

So all the stars are certainly lining up but I just have to believe that production helped with the configuring of them. Nothing "just happens" with this show ...

I just love the Nick threads!  :dancingdoggy!