Re: Nick Viall Bachelorette 11 - Fan Forum - ***SLEUTHING - SPOILERS*** - Thread #12

[notarose]

Fantastic summary, thanks for posting Emusha! Revisiting the mind of our man heightens the anticipatation.  On no!  But oh yes, it is delicious   

I feel what you have posted illustrates why some show viewers during & post-show may have struggled with identifying with him as some people are unable, as he is, to detach from past events/people and instead pluck from it the learnings and carry them into the next relationship without remorse or inhibition.  Personally I think it is the only way to be - take control of what is within your control, recognize & accept that which is not. 

I agree that his family was heavily impacted the first time around but a family that nurtured someone who views life through the lens Nick does would have one or more family members wearing the same glasses in a group of 11 children plus parents. An example would be Maria Teressa.  During last season I posted some vid segments of an interview she gave about her life view.  She is very much a philosopher and it is not surprising that Nick has said she is the sibling he is closest to. 

Nick remaining with Kaitlyn from NY to Ireland bodes so very very well in the context of how he thinks and represents.  I recall her talk with her mother about seeing the return of the light in her eyes.
 Hope Nick is laughing and Kaitlyn is radiating light.

[emusha]

Oh i'd love to see that interview if you could please share again?
How do you mean how he thinks and represents....and the fact that he's been there from NY to Ireland? I don't think I know what you mean about returning the light in Kaitlyn's eyes...I do feel that both K & N fall hard and esp K is very very afraid of getting hurt prolly cos of past heartbreak - is that what you mean?

[SueSt]

Dear emusha,

Thanks SO much for compiling these quotes.  It’s great to be reminded what a ferocious and fearless lover Nick is.  The fact that Nick was unwilling to downplay or denigrate his experience and remained steadfast in his feelings about the experience AND Andi just highlights what a mature and principled guy he is.  I KNOW many lesser men would have found a way to rationalize what they did or restate their feelings in order to ‘save face’, but not Nick.  No!  As you note, it was real to him and he never backed off from saying it, remained kind and balanced, even in the face of Andi’s heartless rejection and post show antics.  And this, more than anything, is what draws me to him and has kept me invested in him.  I look forward to watching more of his journey, regardless of the outcome, because win or lose with K, I know it is an authentic and honorable quest.  

[notarose]

Oh i'd love to see that interview if you could please share again?
How do you mean how he thinks and represents....and the fact that he's been there from NY to Ireland? I don't think I know what you mean about returning the light in Kaitlyn's eyes...I do feel that both K & N fall hard and esp K is very very afraid of getting hurt prolly cos of past heartbreak - is that what you mean?

Emusha
  I've just scoured the web and I can't find the Maria T.  interview segments.  The thing that stood out was her saying she views herself in terms of color combinations. She explained it in a fascinating way but I forget the details   .   She is a holistic nutritionist and very much into mind/body teachings.

Thinks & represents: we know he asked to be on Kaitlyn's season only because it is her.  The interview bits you posted are really now a template of how he enters into a relationship and what needs to be there for him in order to want to continue. 
NYC to Ireland - I think he would have a convo with Kaitlyn about leaving if he didn't think there was real potential for reclaiming, or even surpassing, his last feelings of being in love. If he is still with her, it must be going extremely well. 
Light - on Kaitlyn's HTD she asked her mom if she could see it in her eyes.  They also talked about whether her heart was good as in ready to love again. 

I agree, I too think they both fall hard and perhaps their former lovers were always less invested or less willing to love without inhibition (but please no show lines about guards and walls   ). If that's the case, and if Nick & Kaitlyn become invested in each other, this could be a very powerful love story.

Sue 
Definitely a mature man.  It really was great how he was able to discuss his feelings in relation to Andi in a positive matter-of-fact way. There really is no reason to knock down former partners.   Becca is also a great example of an F2 as well as frontrunner Sharleen who have no ill will post break up.

[SueSt]

Oh i'd love to see that interview if you could please share again?
How do you mean how he thinks and represents....and the fact that he's been there from NY to Ireland? I don't think I know what you mean about returning the light in Kaitlyn's eyes...I do feel that both K & N fall hard and esp K is very very afraid of getting hurt prolly cos of past heartbreak - is that what you mean?

Emusha
  I've just scoured the web and I can't find the Maria T.  interview segments.  The thing that stood out was her saying she views herself in terms of color combinations. She explained it in a fascinating way but I forget the details   .   She is a holistic nutritionist and very much into mind/body teachings.

Thinks & represents: we know he asked to be on Kaitlyn's season only because it is her.  The interview bits you posted are really now a template of how he enters into a relationship and what needs to be there for him in order to want to continue. 
NYC to Ireland - I think he would have a convo with Kaitlyn about leaving if he didn't think there was real potential for reclaiming, or even surpassing, his last feelings of being in love. If he is still with her, it must be going extremely well. 
Light - on Kaitlyn's HTD she asked her mom if she could see it in her eyes.  They also talked about whether her heart was good as in ready to love again. 

I agree, I too think they both fall hard and perhaps their former lovers were always less invested or less willing to love without inhibition (but please no show lines about guards and walls   ). If that's the case, and if Nick & Kaitlyn become invested in each other, this could be a very powerful love story.

Sue 
Definitely a mature man.  It really was great how he was able to discuss his feelings in relation to Andi in a positive matter-of-fact way. There really is no reason to knock down former partners.   Becca is also a great example of an F2 as well as frontrunner Sharleen who have no ill will post break up.

NR, YES! I think the conversation with K is going to be key this season. And better, I can't imagine TPTB would not show it to us, given N's history on the show!!
Obviously, I don't watch the Bach, but my sense is that neither Sharleen or Becca fell to the degree that Nick (or Kaitlyn?) did. I think having no ill will post break up would be easier in these situations.

[notarose]

^ yes, in the case of Becca/Sharleen the relationships were less advanced but neither did what so many on the show do at any exit point which is to criticize the lead.  Instead, they just talk about the relationship and how they perceived it. 
 It's especially weird when the rejected aren't even in the final 4. 
In Sharleen's case, she wasn't but she was definitely a frontrunner.

[GuardianAngel]

hey yall brill's link reminded me of these indepth interviews with nick... some great stuff

http://www.realitytvworld.com/news/nick-viall-the-bachelorette-couple-andi-dorfman-and-josh-murray-had-one-thing-i-couldnt-match-16579.php

what he wants in a relationship -- def that can help him grow and he do the same for them + reciprocity

Watching it back, we connected on every level: physically, emotionally, mentally. To me, the intensity and the passion, things like that, to me, that's the foundation of a relationship that I've always wanted. I think that's why I expressed that to her.

Kind of like I said in my bio, I think something along the lines -- and I said this to Andi, and this is where our connection really started and took off -- is that I've always been attracted to someone who is very confident and sure of themselves and has opinions.

But more than anything, I want to find that person who, we have that connection, and more than anything, we bring out the best in each other. I think every couple, you know, you get to know someone and whether in good times or bad, sometimes you critique each other.

And sometimes that can come from a place of resentment or anger or frustration, but I hoped to find it in someone where any feedback or anything they say to me like, "Hey babe. You can do better."

I want someone to bring out the best in me and I want to be with someone I bring out the best in. I do want that. I see that in my parents and that partnership that they have, and I think it's an incredible connection. I very much, at the time, thought I had that with Andi. So, I hope to find that again and hope to find that with someone who feels the same way about me.

also really interesting that nick saw his relationship with andi just like we saw it...

With that being said, watching it back, I remembered our relationship and how it was, and I felt like watching it back, that's how I remembered it. It was just two very different relationships and she just chose one that she thought was best suited for her.

it is still soooo fascinating to me how he simply didn't care about how he was portrayed. he really seemed focused on the fact that he was in love and that was the WHOLE experience for him - not the friendships not the tv portrayal. and afterwards he just took it as par for the course and didn't dwell *at all* on it even when his family seems extremely torn up by his negative depiction on the show. maybe he was prepared cos of the contracts they made them sign where it's obviously stated that the level of effect the show could have on their reputation....but even still -- it shows how clearly nick isn't concerned about his public persona and that makes me feel confident he'll do just fine whatever happens during this season

You know, I think as you guys know, they film so much, and given time constraints, they're only able to air such a little bit about it.  And like I said before, you know, if there's one thing I wish they could've shown more of, it's some of the friendships with some of the guys -- and clearly the ones that I had.

I was very confident; She made me feel very confident. I had a lot of insecurities too that, you know, they may not have had an opportunity to show for whatever reason why.

I said it wasn't like that I was trying to make, I don't know. I was hopeful -- I wanted to make friends, but once I started having incredibly real feelings for Andi, I didn't want to -- at that point, when she asked me to do things like take the initiative and trust and put myself out there, I very much listened to her.

And there's a reason why she repeated over and over that she feels like she knows me, because I tried to listen to her, you know? I tried to understand her, and that was my focus.
I don't take any of that personally, like you know, guys were upset at times with me and that was shown.

I don't regret, in that moment, following my heart and being very focused on a person I was falling in love with.

I was not just focused on trying to build relationships with the guys in the house, who were dating [Andi] at the same time. I thought, "If there are any friendships that are going to blossom into some real genuine friendships, it would happen outside of that." And thankfully, it has. So, no, certainly no regrets about that.

http://www.realitytvworld.com/news/nick-viall-interview-id-like-wish-the-bachelorette-couple-andi-dorfman-and-josh-murray-best-but-im-still-hurt-16573.php

I think this is helpful info for us:  

I, you know, as we kind of talked about last night -- [Chris Harrison] and I -- I reached out to Harrison through my contacts. I mean, I don't have his phone number, but I just wanted to talk to him. And I knew the rules in terms of, I was going to have to wait until AFR, and I truly wanted to respect the process, so I didn't make any attempt to reach out to her directly.

interesting intel imo cos what it seems to say is that ( due to the plane vid but maybe also the producers warned him cos of that breach of his contract that they'd come after him if he did something else) nick has been extra careful about following the term of the show he agreed to...I wouldn't be surprised if they scared him that they'd sue him if he doesn't adhere to rules -- remocked said that the fam wouldn't discuss the show with even ppl related to them and i think that's a big indicator for how he/they might deal with the show this season...my guess is they/he'd rather opt to be tight lipped rather than tell his family overtly and take the risk. I see him being more cryptic than ever before this season JMHO (cryptic or coded tweets don't seem out of that realm tho i don't really take any of his social media as sleuthing info)

a clue as to how he might approach the show this time round -- KEEP IT REAL and what he's looking for -- i think his time with andi made him realize that multidimensional love is what he wants and that he CAN find it which is what i think he wanted to thank her for

I just tried to be very realistic about it. I know it's a very extraordinary situation and, in many ways, the whole process is an unrealistic way of finding love.
I developed these incredibly real feelings for her. And everything I did was about trying to make that experience as real as possible whether it was me giving her flowers or, you know, not waiting for one of the other guys to grab her and kiss her and tell her how much they missed her just because I had a rose on my chest.

To me, it was all very real to me, and so, I very much fell in love with her and it was an incredible connection. And I very much meant what I said last night. I wanted to thank her for -- even though it didn't work out -- that the ability to find that type of love.

interesting to realize his post bette perspective about the show

So for me to say that I didn't believe in the process would not be true, because my feelings for her were incredibly real. I tried throughout the entire process to be very honest with myself, and I was very aware of the possibility of falling in love with the idea of someone given [how] extraordinary the situation [was] and the elaborate dates and things like that.

I had real feelings, and so to say that I don't think that would happen again, that wouldn't be true. Because I think if you're honest with yourself, and you meet the right person, I think you could find love anywhere.

http://www.realitytvworld.com/news/nick-viall-interview-i-only-revealed-i-had-sex-with-the-bachelorette-star-andi-dorfman-because-she-was-so-cold-16568.php

Bringing this forward.

This is a great post emusha! Thanks for all that. This is a reminder of who Nick is. The edit did not show this side of him. Those that disliked him didn't bother following him post how, therefore they were left with an impression of what they saw through the edit lens.

I can't think of another F2 who was so sincere and so confident in knowing what he wants in a relationship. Giving credit to his parents is so touching!

[emusha]

Dear emusha,

Thanks SO much for compiling these quotes.  It’s great to be reminded what a ferocious and fearless lover Nick is.  The fact that Nick was unwilling to downplay or denigrate his experience and remained steadfast in his feelings about the experience AND Andi just highlights what a mature and principled guy he is.  I KNOW many lesser men would have found a way to rationalize what they did or restate their feelings in order to ‘save face’, but not Nick.  No!  As you note, it was real to him and he never backed off from saying it, remained kind and balanced, even in the face of Andi’s heartless rejection and post show antics.  And this, more than anything, is what draws me to him and has kept me invested in him.  I look forward to watching more of his journey, regardless of the outcome, because win or lose with K, I know it is an authentic and honorable quest.  

you know -- i ended up watching some of the segments of last season cos i was just curious if i'd have a different perspective. Knowing what we know now -- I actually saw Andi saying things like 'Nick and I are so aligned' and 'it's very clear to me that I have a connection with him'... I think a lot of that is very theoretical...I think logically she does want to see relationships in the mature way that Nick does but she still needed/s to walk the walk to earn the depth of wisdom that has led Nick to this point where he has fully internalized lessons about who he is and exactly the nuances and components of the relationship that would sustain him in the long-run. I don't at all see Andi as having progressed through that journey. on their second CP convo nick's question was "what is it that you're looking for and more specifically what have you been missing in the past??" and Andi pretty much said "I don't know" along with some mumblings about a "perfect connection" and unconditional love -- a lot of the nuances of experience and a personal journey/realization weren't there -- I think that convo would go very differently with Kaitlyn  :Nod:

Kaitlyn just seems more introspective due to her past relationships which have given her lessons and which do also, in a way, hold her back (the fear about vulnerability) but she would (in spite of fears and the physical manifestation which seems to really cripple her) overcome fear of being vulnerable to get intimate with someone if she feels it's worth it -- she was VERY proactive about overcoming those fears with CS and she was very self-aware about the hurdles "I don't want to hold back" etc. or for example knowing that she deserves to be treated with respect and to expect the other person to do things to reciprocate (her tweets about going a mile when someone wouldn't even take a step -- paraphrasing here). I also appreciated the way she'd talk about relationships and the language of love with CS - finding out what'll make him feel loved (touch) while also letting him know what would do that for her (words). I do think her past relationships have helped her learn things

On the other hand - I can see (from re-watching) several attributes of Nick's that could make him a thrill to be with for Kaitlyn. There are many things that make him a MAN (resolute and decisive in his action/risk taking + goes after what he wants without any excuses). Also attributes that make him a romantic man when he is in a relationship he fully tunes in to a woman (he said that Andi felt like I understood her because I made sure to understand and listen to her - Andi said it over and over that she felt like Nick sees her through to her soul). I think given K saying words are her way to connect and how she'd not felt the reciprocity in her past.... she deserves being with Nick which could be a thrilling and reaffirming experience for her. CS provided some of those attributes IMO cos he was so kind and attentive and focused on a woman when he's with her...K seems to have been the giver in the past but Nick will meet her ever step of the way and exceed all her expectations making her feel wanted and loved physically, emotionally and challenging/intriuging her mentally -- I can def see him bring out the best in Kaitlyn or any woman for that matter cos of his approach to relationships. (women imo want to be seen and understood which is something many men struggle with doing) in the last season it's not at all a matter of debate whether Nick showed Andi how much an all the many ways and dimensions he loved her. He's a fearless and ferocious lover like you said and he is NOT even at all hesitant or shy about making that very very clear when he's into a woman  

All this is with the condition that the romantic feelings are mutual -- cos he has to feel strongly about her and she feel about him for any of this work  and for whatever they've both learnt about being in relationships to contribute to a relationship between them. Right now we don't know any of that and whether the chemistry is or isn't there --- unless he is indeed going to be at HTDs according the radio show host but even then I won't take that as 100% confirmation that they "click" in the most important ways. we'll have to wait and see about that...however great the potential might seem - impossible to just run with it.

ITA that it will be an authentic and worth-watching journey however it ends up!!

[notarose]

^ I would like to preorder a copy of your book, Emusha.  When is the release date?  Always enthralled by your insight. 

I, too, so want authenticity unsullied by edit wizardry. They've had their go at Nick already so can hone their skills on others.  Nick will bring the real; let us watch that. 

I thoroughly enjoyed his love story last time although it was much like a labyrinth and classic in the way of epics that play a last note of sorrow.  This time I am optimistically envisioning a nautilus and even if his quest must continue elsewhere with another the belief in infinite love will remain golden without tarnish.

[emusha]

NR the feeling is very mutual I love reading your insights and findings!!

Also others on this board who have intruiging perspectives -- it's so fun that this show is like a personality/relationship show in a way that we can explore and discuss aspects of relationships and personalities...

I soo agree that "the nick show" was an epic in some ways    -- he fell so hard for the girl but so much of the show was simply him and the tragedy up till the very end -- his personality brings sooo much to what we watch. I actually think Andi was way too closed off to really take advantage of the relationship nick was offering... she just received and lavished in the love he was pouring over her and kept prodding him to give more and more... I can't imagine how it would be for N with someone who reciprocates or who themselves let their guard down and truly connect with him...

I also wonder if K has watched or will watch N last season to see the way he romances a woman!    She watched JPG's season according to her twitter and while she was in Germany for part of the time I imagine she must have watched part of the show to learn about CS. whichever part she watches -- Nick would have been totally all over last season i.e. she'd learn about him. I'm looking forward to finding out how she'd see him and react to him...I almost think that Kaitlyn would be a bit intimidated or anxious - she said her worst date fear is the two not feeling the same... If she likes him I could see her be anxious -- but I also hope she's not too intimidated and nervous around him to let her true self shine through...if she doesn't like him so much then I see her being anxious to figure out whether she should keep him or have him go...

[SueSt]

Dear emusha,

Thanks SO much for compiling these quotes.  It’s great to be reminded what a ferocious and fearless lover Nick is.  The fact that Nick was unwilling to downplay or denigrate his experience and remained steadfast in his feelings about the experience AND Andi just highlights what a mature and principled guy he is.  I KNOW many lesser men would have found a way to rationalize what they did or restate their feelings in order to ‘save face’, but not Nick.  No!  As you note, it was real to him and he never backed off from saying it, remained kind and balanced, even in the face of Andi’s heartless rejection and post show antics.  And this, more than anything, is what draws me to him and has kept me invested in him.  I look forward to watching more of his journey, regardless of the outcome, because win or lose with K, I know it is an authentic and honorable quest.  

you know -- i ended up watching some of the segments of last season cos i was just curious if i'd have a different perspective. Knowing what we know now -- I actually saw Andi saying things like 'Nick and I are so aligned' and 'it's very clear to me that I have a connection with him'... I think a lot of that is very theoretical...I think logically she does want to see relationships in the mature way that Nick does but she still needed/s to walk the walk to earn the depth of wisdom that has led Nick to this point where he has fully internalized lessons about who he is and exactly the nuances and components of the relationship that would sustain him in the long-run. I don't at all see Andi as having progressed through that journey. on their second CP convo nick's question was "what is it that you're looking for and more specifically what have you been missing in the past??" and Andi pretty much said "I don't know" along with some mumblings about a "perfect connection" and unconditional love -- a lot of the nuances of experience and a personal journey/realization weren't there -- I think that convo would go very differently with Kaitlyn  :Nod:

Kaitlyn just seems more introspective due to her past relationships which have given her lessons and which do also, in a way, hold her back (the fear about vulnerability) but she would (in spite of fears and the physical manifestation which seems to really cripple her) overcome fear of being vulnerable to get intimate with someone if she feels it's worth it -- she was VERY proactive about overcoming those fears with CS and she was very self-aware about the hurdles "I don't want to hold back" etc. or for example knowing that she deserves to be treated with respect and to expect the other person to do things to reciprocate (her tweets about going a mile when someone wouldn't even take a step -- paraphrasing here). I also appreciated the way she'd talk about relationships and the language of love with CS - finding out what'll make him feel loved (touch) while also letting him know what would do that for her (words). I do think her past relationships have helped her learn things

On the other hand - I can see (from re-watching) several attributes of Nick's that could make him a thrill to be with for Kaitlyn. There are many things that make him a MAN (resolute and decisive in his action/risk taking + goes after what he wants without any excuses). Also attributes that make him a romantic man when he is in a relationship he fully tunes in to a woman (he said that Andi felt like I understood her because I made sure to understand and listen to her - Andi said it over and over that she felt like Nick sees her through to her soul). I think given K saying words are her way to connect and how she'd not felt the reciprocity in her past.... she deserves being with Nick which could be a thrilling and reaffirming experience for her. CS provided some of those attributes IMO cos he was so kind and attentive and focused on a woman when he's with her...K seems to have been the giver in the past but Nick will meet her ever step of the way and exceed all her expectations making her feel wanted and loved physically, emotionally and challenging/intriuging her mentally -- I can def see him bring out the best in Kaitlyn or any woman for that matter cos of his approach to relationships. (women imo want to be seen and understood which is something many men struggle with doing) in the last season it's not at all a matter of debate whether Nick showed Andi how much an all the many ways and dimensions he loved her. He's a fearless and ferocious lover like you said and he is NOT even at all hesitant or shy about making that very very clear when he's into a woman  

All this is with the condition that the romantic feelings are mutual -- cos he has to feel strongly about her and she feel about him for any of this work  and for whatever they've both learnt about being in relationships to contribute to a relationship between them. Right now we don't know any of that and whether the chemistry is or isn't there --- unless he is indeed going to be at HTDs according the radio show host but even then I won't take that as 100% confirmation that they "click" in the most important ways. we'll have to wait and see about that...however great the potential might seem - impossible to just run with it.

ITA that it will be an authentic and worth-watching journey however it ends up!!

When Nick asked Andi in his letter if she had ever had her heart broken, he was really on to something critical with Andi. The fact that she said verbatim, “Now I’m had my heart broken” in her sit down with CH in January, was very telling for me. Conscious or not, IMHO it was definitely a shout out to Nick. (On a side note, I still wonder if there were parts of the letter (racy??) the general public didn't see.... Hmmmm)

And since the show, Andi appears to have taken a number of steps towards self-actualization, although she clearly has more to go. She’s a very lucky lady and has advantages many of us mere mortals have not. My hope for her is that one day she learns to feel and express gratitude and compassion…

I didn’t watch CS’s Bach… but I’m excited about the possibility of N&K since so many of you really like her. What you describe about both parties recognizing the need to put it out there and sharing their vulnerability sounds, as NR said, like a recipe for the perfect romance and perfect love story. I can’t wait.

I said it before, but the fact that Nick asked to come on the show, put his job and life on hold for the chance to court K is one of the most romantic things I’ve ever witnessed, it’s the stuff of story books really. Regardless of whether he is the last man standing, his effort will enhance his life. Best of all - his risk is my inspiration!

Look forward to sharing the journey [drink please] with YOU!

[SueSt]

^ I would like to preorder a copy of your book, Emusha.  When is the release date?  Always enthralled by your insight. 

I, too, so want authenticity unsullied by edit wizardry. They've had their go at Nick already so can hone their skills on others.  Nick will bring the real; let us watch that. 

I thoroughly enjoyed his love story last time although it was much like a labyrinth and classic in the way of epics that play a last note of sorrow.  This time I am optimistically envisioning a nautilus and even if his quest must continue elsewhere with another the belief in infinite love will remain golden without tarnish.

Love this NR. Bring the real. Yes. Not even TPTB's edit wizardry could obscure it!!
So true about epics with a last note of sorrow, but watching Nick play out a redemption arch is going to be awesome....
Infinite love, golden without tarnish... beautiful!!

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