DWTS Season 20 - Episode Discussion - *Spoilers - Sleuthing*

northernviewer wrote:I think the older dancers should be scored with their age taken into consideration, the same as a person with a handicap should be.  Otherwise, they shouldn't be invited to compete because it's a physical impossibility for them to be as good as a younger, physically stronger person is.  Nothing irks me more than the criticism older ones get.... Buzz aldrin comes to mind.  They were plain old mean to him, and I was disgusted with the judges for some of the things they said.

So if they take age and disability into consideration they should also take into consideration previous experience that would lend itself to dancing ability. Someone that's a gymnast or Olympic gold medal winner is going to do better than someone with no previous dancing skills at all. For example Shawn (was that her name?) the gymnast was clearly coming into the competition with a better skills than Sean the bachelor. There are lots of things that should make the scoring weighted one way or the other. I admire Patti and Suzanne but they did not dance better than Chris last night....JMO.

Does anybody know exactly how they decide to who to eliminate? I know half is the judges scores and half is the votes they get but have they ever explained it beyond that? And since I in no way think the judges aren't biased, I'm not sure I believe the votes are counted accurately. I'm feeling very cynical about this whole thing so I just hope Chris is having fun and not taking it too seriously. He seems to be working really hard.

mindless wrote:I watched SYTYCD for years and have taken dance lessons in various styles myself and I thought the judges were perfectly fair with their scores this week. His extensions were so half-assed and he had to take an extra step at least a couple of times to steady himself. And Witney did most of the dancing anyway. Last week he at least nailed the little he did, except for the awkward turning lift, and most importantly he had the right attitude for the dance. So one point less than last week for this dance that even my non-dancing bf thought was bad, seems pretty accurate.

Patti definitely gets a few extra points for being Patti, but it was her best dance so far I think.  

There are quite a few people who have watched all the dance shows and have taken lessons. Myself included. IMO, Chris should have received the same score as last week or at least a point higher. Bruno criticized his turns and this week they were much improved but the scores didn't reflect that. I believe it was Bruno who said that he was steadier too. I went back and watched all the dances and there isn't one that didn't have a misstep or 2. The least the judges could do is be fair in their critiques and that means calling out Rumers timing issues or Mark and Willow's lack of chemistry or Patti's chorus of back up dancers and props Artem is using to distract the audience etc.

Rolly wrote:

northernviewer wrote:I think the older dancers should be scored with their age taken into consideration, the same as a person with a handicap should be.  Otherwise, they shouldn't be invited to compete because it's a physical impossibility for them to be as good as a younger, physically stronger person is.  Nothing irks me more than the criticism older ones get.... Buzz aldrin comes to mind.  They were plain old mean to him, and I was disgusted with the judges for some of the things they said.

So if they take age and disability into consideration they should also take into consideration previous experience that would lend itself to dancing ability. Someone that's a gymnast or Olympic gold medal winner is going to do better than someone with no previous dancing skills at all. For example Shawn (was that her name?) the gymnast was clearly coming into the competition with a better skills than Sean the bachelor. There are lots of things that should make the scoring weighted one way or the other. I admire Patti and  Suzanne but they did not dance better than Chris last night....JMO.

Does anybody know exactly how they decide to who to eliminate? I know half is the judges scores and half is the votes they get but have they ever explained it beyond that? And since I in no way think the judges aren't biased, I'm not sure I believe the votes are counted accurately. I'm feeling very cynical about this whole thing so I just hope Chris is having fun and not taking it too seriously. He seems to be working really hard.

I agree with everything you said Rolly.

^Agree with Cindebugg too.

Patti LaBelle needs to go.. although she may be fun to watch, she hasn't done anything different than she has from week 1, all of her dances are the same.

cindebugg wrote:

mindless wrote:I watched SYTYCD for years and have taken dance lessons in various styles myself and I thought the judges were perfectly fair with their scores this week. His extensions were so half-assed and he had to take an extra step at least a couple of times to steady himself. And Witney did most of the dancing anyway. Last week he at least nailed the little he did, except for the awkward turning lift, and most importantly he had the right attitude for the dance. So one point less than last week for this dance that even my non-dancing bf thought was bad, seems pretty accurate.

Patti definitely gets a few extra points for being Patti, but it was her best dance so far I think.  

There are quite a few people who have watched all the dance shows and have taken lessons.  Myself included.  IMO, Chris should have received the same score as last week or at least a  point higher.  Bruno criticized his turns and this week they were much improved but the scores didn't reflect that. I believe it was Bruno who said that he was steadier too.  I went back and watched all the dances and there isn't one that didn't have a misstep or 2.  The least the judges could do is be fair in their critiques and that means calling out Rumers timing issues or Mark and Willow's lack of chemistry or Patti's chorus of back up dancers and props Artem is using to distract the audience etc.

I just saw the rumba version of T-Rex arms and it does make him seem timid like the judges said. Like he's not fully trying and it's hard to enjoy watching him. The performance quality is lacking even more than the technique. They also gave him plenty of positive feedback, so that's why I don't get the outrage about the judging this week. It's not their fault he was the worst last night, which he was IMO. I want him to stay as long as possible, but he needs to improve a lot if he plans on doing that. I can understand the judges being a bit annoyed if he's up there in viewer votes and better dancers are in the bottom. It's the name of the game, but it would bug me too if I was the one judging.

Max64 wrote:Patti LaBelle needs to go.. although she may be fun to watch, she hasn't done anything different than she has from week 1, all of her dances are the same.

ITA...you would have thought after her performance last night that the audience just got done watching Meryl and Maks dance by the reaction OK so I exaggerate a bit.

I watch little tv as I have stated before so last night I watched the entire show. These are my observations.
As previously stated, there are different benchmarks for the Older (Pattie), the younger (Willow), the athlete (Michael), the disabled vet (Noah) and Chris.
It seems to me that in some cases there is what I consider "real dancing" going on and in others more of one person dancing and the other posing and turning. For example, I thought Suzanne Sommers "dance" was beyond insulting to the word dance. I think both Chris and Noah were further behind them, but nonetheless IMO they were barely dancing. I did think Robert Herjavec did a nice job for a non pro.

I think the better way to judge this would be to have all perform to the same dance. For example the Waltz. I would have each one perform their version of the waltz and the scoring would only be after every couple had finished, this eliminating any low scores for the starting couple. That way the judges could have a slate of what each was able to do with the specific dance. Having been a disabled sports official for over 30 years, I can say that there are many sports that with adaptive equipment a disabled athlete can compete in a manner that does not give them an advantage, I do not think that dancing is one where they can compete equally.

There is no way the Patti should have scored a 30 and Chris get a 27. I don't think Chris' dance was all that great, but no way should he have scored less than Patti and Suzanne.

mindless wrote:

cindebugg wrote:

mindless wrote:I watched SYTYCD for years and have taken dance lessons in various styles myself and I thought the judges were perfectly fair with their scores this week. His extensions were so half-assed and he had to take an extra step at least a couple of times to steady himself. And Witney did most of the dancing anyway. Last week he at least nailed the little he did, except for the awkward turning lift, and most importantly he had the right attitude for the dance. So one point less than last week for this dance that even my non-dancing bf thought was bad, seems pretty accurate.

Patti definitely gets a few extra points for being Patti, but it was her best dance so far I think.  

There are quite a few people who have watched all the dance shows and have taken lessons.  Myself included.  IMO, Chris should have received the same score as last week or at least a  point higher.  Bruno criticized his turns and this week they were much improved but the scores didn't reflect that. I believe it was Bruno who said that he was steadier too.  I went back and watched all the dances and there isn't one that didn't have a misstep or 2.  The least the judges could do is be fair in their critiques and that means calling out Rumers timing issues or Mark and Willow's lack of chemistry or Patti's chorus of back up dancers and props Artem is using to distract the audience etc.

I just saw the rumba version of T-Rex arms and it does make him seem timid like the judges said. Like he's not fully trying and it's hard to enjoy watching him. The performance quality is lacking even more than the technique. They also gave him plenty of positive feedback, so that's why week. I don't get the outrage about the judging this It's not their fault he was the worst last night, which he was IMO. I want him to stay as long as possible, but he needs to improve a lot if he plans on doing that. I can understand the judges being a bit annoyed if he's up there in viewer votes and better dancers are in the bottom. It's the name of the game, but it would bug me too if I was the one judging.

I am outraged by the judging and I don't agree that Chris was the worst last night. Willow and Mark score a 39!!! Seriously??? And Chris was scored lower than Suzanne (1 point), Patti (3 points) and Noah (5 points). JMO and granted I'm not a dancing expert but anybody that scored Suzanne higher than Chris is not seeing the dancing I saw last night. Willow and Mark were good but it should not have been a 39...JMO.... Viewer votes count for half and if they are going to score dancers higher because they don't agree with the viewer votes they should just admit that's what they're doing. I know I'm but the judging sucks and not just the scores given but the comments don't seem to be fair... and with each show I find myself more outraged by it. JMOAA

In my opinion if they do not like the fact that better dancers get higher votes then they should do something like what Idol did and come out with the "save"...where you can save one "dancer" for the season. And I completely agree that the "judging" and such on all reality shows SYTYCD, AI, The Voice, etc etc...is all a bunch of crap. It's all staged and it's all basically up to what TPTB want to happen.

To answer the scoring question, I believe it is percentages added or averaged together:

If there were two teams:

Team A
judges score 36  51.43%
Viewer votes 1M  47.62%

Team B
judges score 34  48.57%
Viewer votes 1.1M  52.38%

Team B is the winner

It works out that the judges scores, which tend to be somewhat close together, carry very little weight and viewer votes are what really count.