Andi Dorfman & Josh Murray - Bachelorette 10 - General Discussion #3

Bet2Win wrote:The article left out the elephant in the room.

I can't wait for your response?

GuardianAngel wrote:

Bet2Win wrote:The article left out the elephant in the room.

I can't wait for your response?

Josh's and MM's jaws hitting the floor at Nick's announcement on the ATFR.  It felt like an earthquake here that night.  

Jolena wrote:


I disagree with the bold part. I think Josh was looking for love and I do think he fell in love with her., If he was there to win a competition he was the chosen F1 but he didn't have to propose. IMO he would have been the one in the relationship to put up with more and try harder to make things work. My take is that Andi probably didn't try hard enough on the relationship,, and was trying more to keep up the bachelorette persona. Looking back at some of the interviews and from what I saw in person I would have to lean more towards it being her that was more capable of putting on the happy front for as long as she did as opposed to Josh. I agree that she probably was a bit harder to handle then what he thought.

Josh reminds me of this bad habit I also have. When I usually want something I am quite desperate to have It but when get it I lose interest in it. I later realize I just like the chase. It's really a terrible habit I have been trying to control these past few years.

Anyway, about Josh. I think if Josh and Andi met a different time, like a blind date or a club they wouldn't even have a second date. They are just too similar for each other taste. I think Josh might have fallen in love with an idea of love instead of falling in love with Andi. He seems to have an ideal picture of a woman he wants as a wife. Maybe someone similar like his mom. I remember in his season reading this board his friends were always talking smack at Nick and laughing at him when he says he sees a future with Andi. They looked at it as if it was a competition instead of their friend that wanted to get married to Andi. I also felt that way when I saw him in the show. He seemed competitive even his proposal seemed just there.

They were together for only 8 months Nikki and JPG lasted longer than these two. Who knows who was acting with these two? Josh was there in the red carpet talking about a wedding he knew it wasn't gonna happen.

10 seasons of The bacherlotte all the men have proposed. It seems its a given that you have to propose in that show unlike The Bachelor since you are competing for the lady.


@chasingpavements Nick only spoke the truth. He saw through him the same way Eric saw through Andi. I never blamed Nick about that video. He was talking to a friend about a private situation that was recorded by someone without his knowledge.

StacyNor wrote:

Jolena wrote:


I disagree with the bold part. I think Josh was looking for love and I do think he fell in love with her., If he was there to win a competition he was the chosen F1 but he didn't have to propose. IMO he would have been the one in the relationship to put up with more and try harder to make things work. My take is that Andi probably didn't try hard enough on the relationship,, and was trying more to keep up the bachelorette persona. Looking back at some of the interviews and from what I saw in person I would have to lean more towards it being her that was more capable of putting on the happy front for as long as she did as opposed to Josh. I agree that she probably was a bit harder to handle then what he thought.

Josh reminds me of this bad habit I also have. When I usually want something I am quite desperate to have It but when get it I lose interest in it. I later realize I just like the chase. It's really a terrible habit I have been trying to control these past few years.

Anyway, about Josh. I think if Josh and Andi met a different time, like a blind date or a club they wouldn't even have a second date.  They are just too similar for each other taste. I think Josh might have fallen in love with an idea of love instead of falling in love with Andi. He seems to have an ideal picture of a woman he wants as a wife. Maybe someone similar like his mom. I remember in his season reading this board his friends were always talking smack at Nick and laughing at him when he says he sees a future with Andi. They looked at it as if it was a competition instead of their friend that wanted to get married to Andi. I also felt that way when I saw him in the show. He seemed competitive even his proposal seemed just there.

They were together for only 8 months Nikki and JPG lasted longer than these two. Who knows who was acting with these two? Josh was there in the red carpet talking about a wedding he knew it wasn't gonna happen.

10 seasons of The bacherlotte all the men have proposed. It seems its a given that you have to propose in that show unlike The Bachelor since you are competing for the lady.


@chasingpavements Nick only spoke the truth. He saw through him the same way Eric saw through Andi. I never blamed Nick about that video. He was talking to a friend about a private situation that was recorded by someone without his knowledge.

To be fair, I personally think it's a lot different when a couple lives together for eight straight months and is seen out daily doing everyday things versus a couple who would fly out to see each other for a few days once or twice a month.

^Point taken

StacyNor wrote:

Jolena wrote:


I disagree with the bold part. I think Josh was looking for love and I do think he fell in love with her., If he was there to win a competition he was the chosen F1 but he didn't have to propose. IMO he would have been the one in the relationship to put up with more and try harder to make things work. My take is that Andi probably didn't try hard enough on the relationship,, and was trying more to keep up the bachelorette persona. Looking back at some of the interviews and from what I saw in person I would have to lean more towards it being her that was more capable of putting on the happy front for as long as she did as opposed to Josh. I agree that she probably was a bit harder to handle then what he thought.

Josh reminds me of this bad habit I also have. When I usually want something I am quite desperate to have It but when get it I lose interest in it. I later realize I just like the chase. It's really a terrible habit I have been trying to control these past few years.

Anyway, about Josh. I think if Josh and Andi met a different time, like a blind date or a club they wouldn't even have a second date.  They are just too similar for each other taste. I think Josh might have fallen in love with an idea of love instead of falling in love with Andi. He seems to have an ideal picture of a woman he wants as a wife. Maybe someone similar like his mom. I remember in his season reading this board his friends were always talking smack at Nick and laughing at him when he says he sees a future with Andi. They looked at it as if it was a competition instead of their friend that wanted to get married to Andi. I also felt that way when I saw him in the show. He seemed competitive even his proposal seemed just there.

They were together for only 8 months Nikki and JPG lasted longer than these two. Who knows who was acting with these two? Josh was there in the red carpet talking about a wedding he knew it wasn't gonna happen.

10 seasons of The bacherlotte all the men have proposed. It seems its a given that you have to propose in that show unlike The Bachelor since you are competing for the lady.


@chasingpavements Nick only spoke the truth. He saw through him the same way Eric saw through Andi. I never blamed Nick about that video. He was talking to a friend about a private situation that was recorded by someone without his knowledge.

I always love it when the things we speculate about during the season prove to be correct. Many of us saw the truth in the things that both Eric and Nick said...even if it was not always the most popular opinion. We also saw issues with both Andi and Josh which have since been shown to be spot on.

Andi is a hard woman to deal with. JPab and Eric both had a hard exit with her, but the clincher for me was her behaviour in the interview with CH after Eric's death...that I believe was supposed to make her appear more sympathetic. It didn't. If she couldn't muster up sympathy for a man who died so tragically young, whose only issue with her was to ask her to be herself on a stupid reality show, then I don't know when she would/could ever be a kinder, gentler, forgiving person. He dared question her and she could not forgive that...even under those tragic circumstances. That is harsh. Really harsh.

One thing that I want to bring up about the whole relationship between Josh and Andi is that they both knew of each other before the show even started. We had Josh saying he saw her in some club before her season of the Bette started and he was in the middle of being cast. His mom loved her on the Bachelor and I have to think that that had a big influence on him. No doubt his mom pointed out all the similarities between them that would make them a good match and he likely values her opinion since they appear very close. Same deal with Hy and Andi. From all accounts, he was well aware of the Murray clan and likely encouraged Andi in that direction even before the show...not to mention he was there for the meet and greet the first night and during the MTF date. So likely, they were primed to be interested in one another by their families and their approval and encouragement. I think that might have made them more blinded to the problems in the relationship since their families thought they were a good match....and they have both shown that they seek that family approval. It might also be what made them stick it out for longer than they originally might have.

Sprite wrote:

StacyNor wrote:

Jolena wrote:


I disagree with the bold part. I think Josh was looking for love and I do think he fell in love with her., If he was there to win a competition he was the chosen F1 but he didn't have to propose. IMO he would have been the one in the relationship to put up with more and try harder to make things work. My take is that Andi probably didn't try hard enough on the relationship,, and was trying more to keep up the bachelorette persona. Looking back at some of the interviews and from what I saw in person I would have to lean more towards it being her that was more capable of putting on the happy front for as long as she did as opposed to Josh. I agree that she probably was a bit harder to handle then what he thought.

Josh reminds me of this bad habit I also have. When I usually want something I am quite desperate to have It but when get it I lose interest in it. I later realize I just like the chase. It's really a terrible habit I have been trying to control these past few years.

Anyway, about Josh. I think if Josh and Andi met a different time, like a blind date or a club they wouldn't even have a second date.  They are just too similar for each other taste. I think Josh might have fallen in love with an idea of love instead of falling in love with Andi. He seems to have an ideal picture of a woman he wants as a wife. Maybe someone similar like his mom. I remember in his season reading this board his friends were always talking smack at Nick and laughing at him when he says he sees a future with Andi. They looked at it as if it was a competition instead of their friend that wanted to get married to Andi. I also felt that way when I saw him in the show. He seemed competitive even his proposal seemed just there.

They were together for only 8 months Nikki and JPG lasted longer than these two. Who knows who was acting with these two? Josh was there in the red carpet talking about a wedding he knew it wasn't gonna happen.

10 seasons of The bacherlotte all the men have proposed. It seems its a given that you have to propose in that show unlike The Bachelor since you are competing for the lady.


@chasingpavements Nick only spoke the truth. He saw through him the same way Eric saw through Andi. I never blamed Nick about that video. He was talking to a friend about a private situation that was recorded by someone without his knowledge.

I always love it when the things we speculate about during the season prove to be correct. Many of us saw the truth in the things that both Eric and Nick said...even if it was not always the most popular opinion. We also saw issues with both Andi and Josh which have since been shown to be spot on.

Andi is a hard woman to deal with. JPab and Eric both had a hard exit with her, but the clincher for me was her behaviour in the interview with CH after Eric's death...that I believe was supposed to make her appear more sympathetic. It didn't. If she couldn't muster up sympathy for a man who died so tragically young, whose only issue with her was to ask her to be herself on a stupid reality show, then I don't know when she would/could ever be a kinder, gentler, forgiving person. He dared question her and she could not forgive that...even under those tragic circumstances. That is harsh. Really harsh.

One thing that I want to bring up about the whole relationship between Josh and Andi is that they both knew of each other before the show even started. We had Josh saying he saw her in some club before her season of the Bette started and he was in the middle of being cast. His mom loved her on the Bachelor and I have to think that that had a big influence on him. No doubt his mom pointed out all the similarities between them that would make them a good match and he likely values her opinion since they appear very close. Same deal with Hy and Andi. From all accounts, he was well aware of the Murray clan and likely encouraged Andi in that direction even before the show...not to mention he was there for the meet and greet the first night and during the MTF date. So likely, they were primed to be interested in one another by their families and their approval and encouragement. I think that might have made them more blinded to the problems in the relationship since their families thought they were a good match....and they have both shown that they seek that family approval. It might also be what made them stick it out for longer than they originally might have.

To the bolded absolutely. As I have mentioned before this is my biggest issue with this season. Andi was primed to pick Josh even before the full cast was set. And IMO no one else had a chance even if they were much better suited for her, which I believe some of them were.

StacyNor wrote:
Josh reminds me of this bad habit I also have. When I usually want something I am quite desperate to have It but when get it I lose interest in it. I later realize I just like the chase. It's really a terrible habit I have been trying to control these past few years.

Anyway, about Josh. I think if Josh and Andi met a different time, like a blind date or a club they wouldn't even have a second date.  They are just too similar for each other taste. I think Josh might have fallen in love with an idea of love instead of falling in love with Andi. He seems to have an ideal picture of a woman he wants as a wife. Maybe someone similar like his mom. I remember in his season reading this board his friends were always talking smack at Nick and laughing at him when he says he sees a future with Andi. They looked at it as if it was a competition instead of their friend that wanted to get married to Andi. I also felt that way when I saw him in the show. He seemed competitive even his proposal seemed just there.

They were together for only 8 months Nikki and JPG lasted longer than these two. Who knows who was acting with these two? Josh was there in the red carpet talking about a wedding he knew it wasn't gonna happen.

10 seasons of The bacherlotte all the men have proposed. It seems its a given that you have to propose in that show unlike The Bachelor since you are competing for the lady.


@chasingpavements Nick only spoke the truth. He saw through him the same way Eric saw through Andi. I never blamed Nick about that video. He was talking to a friend about a private situation that was recorded by someone without his knowledge.

I agree Stacy, IMO I do not understand nor comprehend how this break up all falls on Andi. It takes two people to make a relationship and two people to break one up.

Yes Andi appears to be controlling and difficult, she needs to always have the last word in fight, and is stubborn as heck. But IMO Josh is no saint, as much as he tries to portray how #blessed he is. I think that Josh is aggressive, competitive, and angers easily. BOTH Josh and Andi have Alpha personalities.

I haven't checked either's social media today but as of yesterday to be honest I am more impressed with Andi dealings. I don't understand the distaste for her posing in a picture with her trainer (whom she has been with for a while) at the gym. That is one of the healthiest ways of getting over a break up, working out, it is something that is good for her to do. She didn't post the picture so I don't understand how that makes her look self absorbed or a princess.

While at the same time Josh posts a picture of how proud he is about some girl using Advocare, sorry that IMO that is not him helping someone, that is him advertising a product that he is selling to fans to earn money in a pyramid scheme. If he were really helping someone he would be volunteering somewhere trying to go unnoticed as a D-list celebrity and especially without posting about it on SM.

I can't ever imagine seeing Andi as the bachelorette again I don't think TPTB or the fans liked her enough the first time, and I really hope we don't have Josh as the bachelor, if we do I probably won't be watching. I don't think he is insincere or a bad person but his holier than attitude is a real turn off for me.

Funny enough the way I see it is Nick called the whole thing when he spoke with Brian on the show and again on the phone to his dad.

sbolduc wrote:

Sprite wrote:

StacyNor wrote:
Josh reminds me of this bad habit I also have. When I usually want something I am quite desperate to have It but when get it I lose interest in it. I later realize I just like the chase. It's really a terrible habit I have been trying to control these past few years.

Anyway, about Josh. I think if Josh and Andi met a different time, like a blind date or a club they wouldn't even have a second date.  They are just too similar for each other taste. I think Josh might have fallen in love with an idea of love instead of falling in love with Andi. He seems to have an ideal picture of a woman he wants as a wife. Maybe someone similar like his mom. I remember in his season reading this board his friends were always talking smack at Nick and laughing at him when he says he sees a future with Andi. They looked at it as if it was a competition instead of their friend that wanted to get married to Andi. I also felt that way when I saw him in the show. He seemed competitive even his proposal seemed just there.

They were together for only 8 months Nikki and JPG lasted longer than these two. Who knows who was acting with these two? Josh was there in the red carpet talking about a wedding he knew it wasn't gonna happen.

10 seasons of The bacherlotte all the men have proposed. It seems its a given that you have to propose in that show unlike The Bachelor since you are competing for the lady.


@chasingpavements Nick only spoke the truth. He saw through him the same way Eric saw through Andi. I never blamed Nick about that video. He was talking to a friend about a private situation that was recorded by someone without his knowledge.

I always love it when the things we speculate about during the season prove to be correct. Many of us saw the truth in the things that both Eric and Nick said...even if it was not always the most popular opinion. We also saw issues with both Andi and Josh which have since been shown to be spot on.

Andi is a hard woman to deal with. JPab and Eric both had a hard exit with her, but the clincher for me was her behaviour in the interview with CH after Eric's death...that I believe was supposed to make her appear more sympathetic. It didn't. If she couldn't muster up sympathy for a man who died so tragically young, whose only issue with her was to ask her to be herself on a stupid reality show, then I don't know when she would/could ever be a kinder, gentler, forgiving person. He dared question her and she could not forgive that...even under those tragic circumstances. That is harsh. Really harsh.

One thing that I want to bring up about the whole relationship between Josh and Andi is that they both knew of each other before the show even started. We had Josh saying he saw her in some club before her season of the Bette started and he was in the middle of being cast. His mom loved her on the Bachelor and I have to think that that had a big influence on him. No doubt his mom pointed out all the similarities between them that would make them a good match and he likely values her opinion since they appear very close. Same deal with Hy and Andi. From all accounts, he was well aware of the Murray clan and likely encouraged Andi in that direction even before the show...not to mention he was there for the meet and greet the first night and during the MTF date. So likely, they were primed to be interested in one another by their families and their approval and encouragement. I think that might have made them more blinded to the problems in the relationship since their families thought they were a good match....and they have both shown that they seek that family approval. It might also be what made them stick it out for longer than they originally might have.

To the bolded absolutely. As I have mentioned before this is my biggest issue with this season. Andi was primed to pick Josh even before the full cast was set. And IMO no one else had a chance even if they were much better suited for her, which I believe some of them were.

I definitely see where you're coming from, but for me at least, I think there's a contestant every season that is most expected for the lead to pick. When we look at Sean's season, and you take away the personality aspects and the fact that she appears to be a bit nuts with relationships, AshLee lived in Texas, is super faithful and her father was a pastor. Sean lives in Texas, is super faithful and his father is heavily involved with church considering he himself baptized Catherine. I would say just looking in on the outside, AshLee made the most sense for Sean, but he didn't pick her. Josh made the most sense for Andi and she picked him. The same could be said for Juan Pablo's season. I would say there were two girls on his season that legitimately made sense for him on paper, but he didn't pick them.

For me, part of the reason why I liked Andi and Josh so much during the season was because on paper, they seemed like a match and it seemed the most realistic because neither of them had to uproot their life to another state or part of the country. Obviously none of that matters now, but it seems more realistic. I think production knew they struck gold in a match for Andi, at least on paper, and if she didn't pick him they struck gold with a good bachelor.

Sprite wrote:

StacyNor wrote:

Jolena wrote:


I disagree with the bold part. I think Josh was looking for love and I do think he fell in love with her., If he was there to win a competition he was the chosen F1 but he didn't have to propose. IMO he would have been the one in the relationship to put up with more and try harder to make things work. My take is that Andi probably didn't try hard enough on the relationship,, and was trying more to keep up the bachelorette persona. Looking back at some of the interviews and from what I saw in person I would have to lean more towards it being her that was more capable of putting on the happy front for as long as she did as opposed to Josh. I agree that she probably was a bit harder to handle then what he thought.

Josh reminds me of this bad habit I also have. When I usually want something I am quite desperate to have It but when get it I lose interest in it. I later realize I just like the chase. It's really a terrible habit I have been trying to control these past few years.

Anyway, about Josh. I think if Josh and Andi met a different time, like a blind date or a club they wouldn't even have a second date.  They are just too similar for each other taste. I think Josh might have fallen in love with an idea of love instead of falling in love with Andi. He seems to have an ideal picture of a woman he wants as a wife. Maybe someone similar like his mom. I remember in his season reading this board his friends were always talking smack at Nick and laughing at him when he says he sees a future with Andi. They looked at it as if it was a competition instead of their friend that wanted to get married to Andi. I also felt that way when I saw him in the show. He seemed competitive even his proposal seemed just there.

They were together for only 8 months Nikki and JPG lasted longer than these two. Who knows who was acting with these two? Josh was there in the red carpet talking about a wedding he knew it wasn't gonna happen.

10 seasons of The bacherlotte all the men have proposed. It seems its a given that you have to propose in that show unlike The Bachelor since you are competing for the lady.


@chasingpavements Nick only spoke the truth. He saw through him the same way Eric saw through Andi. I never blamed Nick about that video. He was talking to a friend about a private situation that was recorded by someone without his knowledge.

I always love it when the things we speculate about during the season prove to be correct. Many of us saw the truth in the things that both Eric and Nick said...even if it was not always the most popular opinion. We also saw issues with both Andi and Josh which have since been shown to be spot on.

Andi is a hard woman to deal with. JPab and Eric both had a hard exit with her, but the clincher for me was her behaviour in the interview with CH after Eric's death...that I believe was supposed to make her appear more sympathetic. It didn't. If she couldn't muster up sympathy for a man who died so tragically young, whose only issue with her was to ask her to be herself on a stupid reality show, then I don't know when she would/could ever be a kinder, gentler, forgiving person. He dared question her and she could not forgive that...even under those tragic circumstances. That is harsh. Really harsh.

One thing that I want to bring up about the whole relationship between Josh and Andi is that they both knew of each other before the show even started. We had Josh saying he saw her in some club before her season of the Bette started and he was in the middle of being cast. His mom loved her on the Bachelor and I have to think that that had a big influence on him. No doubt his mom pointed out all the similarities between them that would make them a good match and he likely values her opinion since they appear very close. Same deal with Hy and Andi. From all accounts, he was well aware of the Murray clan and likely encouraged Andi in that direction even before the show...not to mention he was there for the meet and greet the first night and during the MTF date. So likely, they were primed to be interested in one another by their families and their approval and encouragement. I think that might have made them more blinded to the problems in the relationship since their families thought they were a good match....and they have both shown that they seek that family approval. It might also be what made them stick it out for longer than they originally might have.

I've been saying this too. I think the reason Josh fell so quickly is because his mom basically hand picked Andi for him. When Andi lost MM's stamp of approval she was in trouble. I have no idea what is real with Andi and what is not now, but if she sincerely worried all through the filming that Josh was to good to be true and wouldn't accept her for who she is, it's sad that she turned out to be right. Her gut was telling her it would never work and he convinced her it would on their FD. I don't think it would have worked with Nick either, but we can't fault her for second guessing it now. He didn't accept her flaws.

grace8136 wrote:

Sprite wrote:

StacyNor wrote:
Josh reminds me of this bad habit I also have. When I usually want something I am quite desperate to have It but when get it I lose interest in it. I later realize I just like the chase. It's really a terrible habit I have been trying to control these past few years.

Anyway, about Josh. I think if Josh and Andi met a different time, like a blind date or a club they wouldn't even have a second date.  They are just too similar for each other taste. I think Josh might have fallen in love with an idea of love instead of falling in love with Andi. He seems to have an ideal picture of a woman he wants as a wife. Maybe someone similar like his mom. I remember in his season reading this board his friends were always talking smack at Nick and laughing at him when he says he sees a future with Andi. They looked at it as if it was a competition instead of their friend that wanted to get married to Andi. I also felt that way when I saw him in the show. He seemed competitive even his proposal seemed just there.

They were together for only 8 months Nikki and JPG lasted longer than these two. Who knows who was acting with these two? Josh was there in the red carpet talking about a wedding he knew it wasn't gonna happen.

10 seasons of The bacherlotte all the men have proposed. It seems its a given that you have to propose in that show unlike The Bachelor since you are competing for the lady.


@chasingpavements Nick only spoke the truth. He saw through him the same way Eric saw through Andi. I never blamed Nick about that video. He was talking to a friend about a private situation that was recorded by someone without his knowledge.

I always love it when the things we speculate about during the season prove to be correct. Many of us saw the truth in the things that both Eric and Nick said...even if it was not always the most popular opinion. We also saw issues with both Andi and Josh which have since been shown to be spot on.

Andi is a hard woman to deal with. JPab and Eric both had a hard exit with her, but the clincher for me was her behaviour in the interview with CH after Eric's death...that I believe was supposed to make her appear more sympathetic. It didn't. If she couldn't muster up sympathy for a man who died so tragically young, whose only issue with her was to ask her to be herself on a stupid reality show, then I don't know when she would/could ever be a kinder, gentler, forgiving person. He dared question her and she could not forgive that...even under those tragic circumstances. That is harsh. Really harsh.

One thing that I want to bring up about the whole relationship between Josh and Andi is that they both knew of each other before the show even started. We had Josh saying he saw her in some club before her season of the Bette started and he was in the middle of being cast. His mom loved her on the Bachelor and I have to think that that had a big influence on him. No doubt his mom pointed out all the similarities between them that would make them a good match and he likely values her opinion since they appear very close. Same deal with Hy and Andi. From all accounts, he was well aware of the Murray clan and likely encouraged Andi in that direction even before the show...not to mention he was there for the meet and greet the first night and during the MTF date. So likely, they were primed to be interested in one another by their families and their approval and encouragement. I think that might have made them more blinded to the problems in the relationship since their families thought they were a good match....and they have both shown that they seek that family approval. It might also be what made them stick it out for longer than they originally might have.

I've been saying this too. I think the reason Josh fell so quickly is because his mom basically hand picked Andi for him. When Andi lost MM's stamp of approval she was in trouble. I have no idea what is real with Andi and what is not now, but if she sincerely worried all through the filming that Josh was to good to be true and wouldn't accept her for who she is, it's sad that she turned out to be right. Her gut was telling her it would never work and he convinced her it would on their FD. I don't think it would have worked with Nick either, but we can't fault her for second guessing it now. He didn't accept her flaws.

I think MM and Hy both pushed their children to be interested in each other. But Josh was also Andi's perfect, nailed it type. I did think some what that Josh was in love with the idea of Andi. He was too all in straight out of the limo. It actually made Chloep's spoiler that they met up in advance in a hotel seem more likely because right out of the limo he wanted her no matter what.

As for your bolded grace, I think this is very true, but I can't blame Josh for this. If Andi's gut said Josh isn't right, then she should have listened. Let me explain. I knew my ex-hubby and I weren't a great fit. I loved him, but when I pictured our lives it wasn't as one it was two people who had children and came together for the kids, but pretty much did our own separate thing in everyday most of the time. It was hubris on my part that I thought I was strong enough and could make anything work.

I think Andi doesn't know who she is or what she wants. She thought she would do tennis professionally until for whatever reason she had to accept that wasn't it. Then with her argumentative and always right nature I am sure many told her she would be a great lawyer, I know because I heard the same thing. So she pursued law head on, got that degree, passed the bar on attempt one (which good for her, many don't) and found out that as KB's Mom has posted it is actually a lot of hard and unexciting work and the little glory time of what was shown for the bachelorette did not make her happy. She is neither the first or last to go through this, but I am sure it was a shock. But instead of evaluating herself and figuring out what she wanted, she went on the bachelor. I get it, it is fun travel a little while, make some friends. Fun. Then during taping it seemed that TPTB picked her for the next lead, and we get her FS performance with JPG. Then she never fully returns to real life in prepping for the bachelorette, so she never actually takes time to deal with the fact that once again, what she thought she would be isn't happening. She went on the bachelorette as lawyer girl. Strong, independent, career woman. That is what she sold to all her suitors.

So she picks Josh, he picks her and she immediately moves in with him and quits her job. So she goes from tough lawyer to lost girl focusing all her energy on her relationship. Then she becomes wannabee fashion designer Andi and poor little Nick outted her Andi. So opposite of what she had portrayed herself to be.

For a while I think Josh's protective instincts took over and he was in make it all better for Andi mode. But then, Andi's $1000 shoe habit didn't ease up even though she wasn't a working or contributing part of the household income. And instead of building their ATL dynasty Andi wanted to travel and reap every opportunity, so instead of focusing on building his FA business in ATL he is on the road way too much. He decides to do Advocare and Andi while supportive with pics and her big party she could throw and get credit for, she complained openly on twitter that Josh spent too much time on it and not enough time cuddling her.

I don't think Josh took nicely to all the times Andi made fun of him. I think he lashed out and probably got mad at the shopping and spending when she wasn't really working. I think he got sick of traveling everywhere to pursue what she wanted but except for the trip to Charlotte at the pre-season not making any effort to go see his family. I think he even got mad at his family because it was easier than admitting that Andi was not the person he had convinced himself she was. I am sure it was pretty hard for alpha Josh to admit to his family that the engagement wasn't going to work out. Big, strong brother got it really, really wrong and did it very, very publicly.

I think as Kasha pointed out both are in flux at the moment. I think Josh has a stronger basis and will move forward with his career and such quicker. I think Andi is figuring herself out, but hope she learns to be honest with herself and to accept whatever it is she really wants. I also hope that Hy actually lets Andi struggle. If she wants to do this let her pay her own bills, let her find out that sometimes in life you figure out what you need to do as well.

These are two people who feel very much in love with the idea of each other. They both tried hard to make it work, but IMO they had ignored both of their inner voices or self conscious telling them something wasn't right. Both has the eye on the prize. It would have been really interesting to see how they recovered from their fight in Italy. Did they even talk everything out, or as we saw was it, but I want you, so this is silly move on. I ask because, if instead of facing the times they had issues if they instead just relied on "I want you" that was not good. Life shows you when things aren't right, if you ignore this issues they just get bigger, they don't go away.

I hope for both of them they grow and come out the other side better people. Sorry, I wrote a book again.

chasingpavements wrote:
Yeah, I agree. I honestly think that Nick nailed it in his plane video. He talked about how Josh was super competitive and would do basically whatever Andi wanted; I think that he probably did that to "win" the Bachelorette and early on in their relationship to appease her, and then stopped, which Andi did not expect. Nick also talked about Josh having a bad temper and being very emotional and insecure and I definitely believe that since we saw signs of that on the show. Probably not the best characteristics to have when you're dating someone who is stubborn, very set in her own ways, and also has a bad temper.

Yes indeed. Nick really had these two pegged since day one. No wonder Andi hates him so much.

Nothing surprising about that article. You'd think they wrote it based on our speculations. You could just tell Josh hated her controlling ways. But no, the failure of the relationship isn't all on Andi. You could see during the season what kind of a person she is and Josh claimed he'd love her no matter what. Well obviously that wasn't true. I hope he learns to approach love in a more realistic manner instead of this romance novel stuff he was spouting at Andi. At least he knows what to avoid now.