Episode 12 - 8/1 After the Final Rose - Discussion - Spoilers

Peppermom wrote:

reason wrote:I have long come to the conclusion any thing ben does he is not final 1 so say the majority on the board. That is one of the reason why I limit myself from posting here it has be come an unpleasant place to be.

reason, this isn't directed at you but I wanted to quote your post because I really hate to see that people feel like the part of your post that I bolded. It is sad to me to think that people won't post because of ill feelings. I think too often people are so busy trying to convince others to change their mind and that the only correct view is the one they hold. This isn't about changing someone's mind. It is about laying out your view for others to consider. Whether or not they choose to agree with your position or stay true to their position, doesn't matter. What each person sees and how they view the edit is dictated by their own life experiences and preferences. No one view is more valid than another. I for one have been disappointed in my life because something I thought I saw in another, turned out to not be true. Others could see what I couldn't. And sometimes, I saw the truth and others couldn't fathom it. Ultimately everything we see on this show is highly edited to elicit responses at the direction of TPTB. VO's and SC's are spliced and diced until the true version will never be known. San and Love_me have done a great job providing this forum and helping us keep it civil and on track. I hope everyone will do their best to make everyone feel valid and welcome. I think we owe it to Love_me and San.

I have been following the bachelor/ette boards since 2003 and it usually gets very partisan at this point in the season. It seems to have gotten a bit nastier the last several years. This is what I do - I don't do a lot of sleuthing, so I will I skim the posts to get the gist of what is happening, the current theories, etc., and that way I seem to miss a lot of the nastiness. If one or two start to wear on me - I skip those posts all together. After awhile you learn whose (who's?) posts to pay attention to and whose to avoid. Every now and then I will throw in my 2 cents worth. I really appreciate all the work of the sleuthers and those with contacts do to supply our "need to know." So thank you everyone!

Peppermom wrote:

reason wrote:I have long come to the conclusion any thing ben does he is not final 1 so say the majority on the board. That is one of the reason why I limit myself from posting here it has be come an unpleasant place to be.

reason, this isn't directed at you but I wanted to quote your post because I really hate to see that people feel like the part of your post that I bolded. It is sad to me to think that people won't post because of ill feelings. I think too often people are so busy trying to convince others to change their mind and that the only correct view is the one they hold. This isn't about changing someone's mind. It is about laying out your view for others to consider. Whether or not they choose to agree with your position or stay true to their position, doesn't matter. What each person sees and how they view the edit is dictated by their own life experiences and preferences. No one view is more valid than another. I for one have been disappointed in my life because something I thought I saw in another, turned out to not be true. Others could see what I couldn't. And sometimes, I saw the truth and others couldn't fathom it. Ultimately everything we see on this show is highly edited to elicit responses at the direction of TPTB. VO's and SC's are spliced and diced until the true version will never be known. San and Love_me have done a great job providing this forum and helping us keep it civil and on track. I hope everyone will do their best to make everyone feel valid and welcome. I think we owe it to Love_me and San.

Props to peppermom for a respectful, compassionate and heartfelt post.

LaureanT wrote:I do appreciate Love_Me and San! They have really put a lot of time & effort into this site. They are awesome.

ICAM Thanks to you both for all you do.

I feel very gratiful and privleged to San & Love_me for giving me a placeto come and enjoy . I'm happy to read everyones ideas and although i'm a JP fan i also think Ben is a great guy and if it turns out its ben i'll be happy too .

:skating:

realityfan26 wrote:

Peppermom wrote:

reason wrote:I have long come to the conclusion any thing ben does he is not final 1 so say the majority on the board. That is one of the reason why I limit myself from posting here it has be come an unpleasant place to be.

reason, this isn't directed at you but I wanted to quote your post because I really hate to see that people feel like the part of your post that I bolded. It is sad to me to think that people won't post because of ill feelings. I think too often people are so busy trying to convince others to change their mind and that the only correct view is the one they hold. This isn't about changing someone's mind. It is about laying out your view for others to consider. Whether or not they choose to agree with your position or stay true to their position, doesn't matter. What each person sees and how they view the edit is dictated by their own life experiences and preferences. No one view is more valid than another. I for one have been disappointed in my life because something I thought I saw in another, turned out to not be true. Others could see what I couldn't. And sometimes, I saw the truth and others couldn't fathom it. Ultimately everything we see on this show is highly edited to elicit responses at the direction of TPTB. VO's and SC's are spliced and diced until the true version will never be known. San and Love_me have done a great job providing this forum and helping us keep it civil and on track. I hope everyone will do their best to make everyone feel valid and welcome. I think we owe it to Love_me and San.

Very well said!!
It has been mentioned that this was turning out to be a fan board. I can see how some might see that, but my question for Love Me or San is: Was this site designed to NOT be a fan site?? My recollection is the the only rule is that everyone treats everyone with respect, so having unwavering supporters of one contestant would still fall within the guidelines - right??

Bless you for saying this! I am a JP fan, so I am in the majority. Yet I have felt the need to leave because of the unsubstantiated and . gratuitous character assassination directed at him. I can understand that some people won't like JP, maybe his looks, personality, whatever. I get that. We all like who we like and it's intensely personal. However, what I cannot understand is when one contestant is targeted without rhyme or reason for relentless, groundless, baseless attacks that are extremely damaging. That is why I have left and refrained from posting more.

I love this forum. I think that San and Love_Me have done an extraordinary job of creating a wonderful place where we all get to share our thoughts, ideas and beliefs during each season of this show. The vast majority of posters here have managed to express their opinions and have differences without making it personal. Once someone appears to have a virtual vendetta against one contestant, someone who happens to have many fans and is well liked, then things can get unbearable quickly. When someone tells another poster that the mud bath discussion is over and decided, period, and no one else can have an opinion or point of view, then it becomes toxic.

Just to make the case that it's not only about Ben fans feeling uncomfortable. I do think it's a shame, because San and Love_Me have put their heart and soul into this forum. It's up to all of us to honor them by conducting ourselves in a respectful manner.

Nativenewyorker wrote:
Bless you for saying this! I am a JP fan, so I am in the majority. Yet I have felt the need to leave because of the unsubstantiated and . gratuitous character assassination directed at him. I can understand that some people won't like JP, maybe his looks, personality, whatever. I get that. We all like who we like and it's intensely personal. However, what I cannot understand is when one contestant is targeted without rhyme or reason for relentless, groundless, baseless attacks that are extremely damaging. That is why I have left and refrained from posting more.

I love this forum. I think that San and Love_Me have done an extraordinary job of creating a wonderful place where we all get to share our thoughts, ideas and beliefs during each season of this show. The vast majority of posters here have managed to express their opinions and have differences without making it personal. Once someone appears to have a virtual vendetta against one contestant, someone who happens to have many fans and is well liked, then things can get unbearable quickly. When someone tells another poster that the mud bath discussion is over and decided, period, and no one else can have an opinion or point of view, then it becomes toxic.

Just to make the case that it's not only about Ben fans feeling uncomfortable. I do think it's a shame, because San and Love_Me have put their heart and soul into this forum. It's up to all of us to honor them by conducting ourselves in a respectful manner.

1. It's very doubtful that Marissa intended this tweet to confirm that they've met if she even knows. She was standing up for a friend.

2. Not knowing the situation if they did meet, how can Ben be held to the high standard that he not be seen with a woman including one who's a former Bachelorette? Perhaps they ran into each other somewhere in SF, were at the same party, have a mutual friend, ....... The thing is we don't know anything and I'd hazard a guess that RS doesn't either.

Not saying this is what happened or even likely but Fleiss could be involved. Didn't he get Ali to have her friends send out misinformation emails? I'm not holding out hope that Ben is the f1 but it doesn't sit right that Fleiss is not only giving us JP on a platter but even worse for him - RS. Seems beyond strange to me.

Good points. I dont see RS declaration as definitive either, because really there are other alternative explanations. However having said that, it is also possible that they have become friends and have seen each other several times (thus = RS theory) I should think that Ben would like to talk to someone who has been through this, especially a pretty girl. (unless RS is being totally punked) I do think it is more likely that he would talk to her if he had not won, because othewise he would talk to Ashley.
Chris L sought out his buddies, Chantal was tweeting her peeps from the show at first, Ben is also visible on the intrenet. The flaw in this is that we dont know if JP ever tweeted for comparison. I dont see the RS reveal (whatever the truth is about it) as definitive, I just see it as a posibility to consider in wht we think we know of Ben's demeanor post-show.

Love_Me wrote:

LaureanT wrote:I do appreciate Love_Me and San! They have really put a lot of time & effort into this site. They are awesome.

Thank you for the kind words. San and I are trying our very best to make this place a site people go to in order to escape the stresses of their real lives. This should not be a place people get even more stressed out when they sign on to view the board. It might take some time, but I have faith we can get it back on track.

I love coming here. Emotions are running high now. However, emotions will die down a bit after the season finale.

Bullwinkle wrote:
I have been following the bachelor/ette boards since 2003 and it usually gets very partisan at this point in the season. It seems to have gotten a bit nastier the last several years. This is what I do - I don't do a lot of sleuthing, so I will I skim the posts to get the gist of what is happening, the current theories, etc., and that way I seem to miss a lot of the nastiness. If one or two start to wear on me - I skip those posts all together. After awhile you learn whose (who's?) posts to pay attention to and whose to avoid. Every now and then I will throw in my 2 cents worth. I really appreciate all the work of the sleuthers and those with contacts do to supply our "need to know." So thank you everyone!

Very good advice!! I also skim when things get to be too much for me.

jelle wrote:

1. It's very doubtful that Marissa intended this tweet to confirm that they've met if she even knows. She was standing up for a friend.

2. Not knowing the situation if they did meet, how can Ben be held to the high standard that he not be seen with a woman including one who's a former Bachelorette? Perhaps they ran into each other somewhere in SF, were at the same party, have a mutual friend, ....... The thing is we don't know anything and I'd hazard a guess that RS doesn't either.

Not saying this is what happened or even likely but Fleiss could be involved. Didn't he get Ali to have her friends send out misinformation emails? I'm not holding out hope that Ben is the f1 but it doesn't sit right that Fleiss is not only giving us JP on a platter but even worse for him - RS. Seems beyond strange to me.

Good points. I dont see RS declaration as definitive either, because really there are other alternative explanations. However having said that, it is also possible that they have become friends and have seen each other several times (thus = RS theory) I should think that Ben would like to talk to someone who has been through this, especially a pretty girl. (unless RS is being totally punked) I do think it is more likely that he would talk to her if he had not won, because othewise he would talk to Ashley.
Chris L sought out his buddies, Chantal was tweeting her peeps from the show at first, Ben is also visible on the intrenet. The flaw in this is that we dont know if JP ever tweeted for comparison. I dont see the RS reveal (whatever the truth is about it) as definitive, I just see it as a posibility to consider in wht we think we know of Ben's demeanor post-show.

Obviously it's up to whatever anyone wants to think but it appears to me that Ben really can't win because everything he's done (or even not done) post-show has been looked at as a clue that he's not the f1. I guess we all have our own guidelines that we use in life but not sure we can apply it to another person. For example, I follow a lot of people on twitter and have even tweeted single guys yet I'm very happily married. I don't think most people look on a tweet as flirting or as serious as if you went up to someone to talk to them or picked up the phone and called them. Ben's tweeting has been very innocent & a little humorous until they pulled the plug. I'm not going to get into anything else because I really don't think there's anything in them. Ben either is the f1 or not. :awesome:

realityfan26 wrote:

Bullwinkle wrote:
I have been following the bachelor/ette boards since 2003 and it usually gets very partisan at this point in the season. It seems to have gotten a bit nastier the last several years. This is what I do - I don't do a lot of sleuthing, so I will I skim the posts to get the gist of what is happening, the current theories, etc., and that way I seem to miss a lot of the nastiness. If one or two start to wear on me - I skip those posts all together. After awhile you learn whose (who's?) posts to pay attention to and whose to avoid. Every now and then I will throw in my 2 cents worth. I really appreciate all the work of the sleuthers and those with contacts do to supply our "need to know." So thank you everyone!

Very good advice!! I also skim when things get to be too much for me.

I'm an avid reader of fiction. Sometimes I like the endings, sometimes I don't. I can't imagine getting my knickers in a knot because somebody detested a book I liked, or loved a book I gave up on halfway through because I found it boring. Similarly, at the beginning of a Bach/ette season, I read all threads. As they grow in number and length, I narrow my focus down because, frankly, when my work production goes down, so does my pay. Invariably, I stick to a few threads which support my hoped-for ending. I may end up in F1's Camp, usually I'm not. It doesn't matter who else is in "my" camp or if someone has a completely different viewpoint.
Hats off and THANKS to those who spend hours sleuthing and researching. You provide a pleasant distraction in my workday. I enjoy the commentary while working (somewhat, anyway), and then watch episodes later when I can skip commercials.

ironcat wrote:For everyone who still thinks it can't be JP because it's too obvious, try to imagine what other options the producers had for editing the show that would have been less obvious, and what that finished product would have looked like, and whether it would have gotten the kind of ratings that this show did. IOW, if they cut out much of the kissing/chemistry with JP, what exactly would we have been watching and why? Yes, I know some people still believe Ashley had this smoking hot connection with Ben, and it's all on the cutting room floor. But what if she just didn't? Do the producers then put together a boring show, where Ashley is shown to have no real chemistry with any of her final 4 guys, in the opinions of the majority of viewers, just for the sake of hiding the final outcome?

I am going to ask this and probably get bombarded for doing so, but last season with Brad.......who felt that the connection between Brad and Chantal was smoking hot?? Yet we all know she was F2, so how is that differrent?