Episode 12 - 8/1 After the Final Rose - Discussion - Spoilers

agentcurls wrote:Guess who is going to ATFR taping today?

sushifan wrote:Since it's that time of the season, when everyone has run out of things to sleuth and instead is arguing why the edit points to his/her favorite, I thought this bore reminding:

It is a mistake to "sleuth" from the edit. We've seen enough seasons of this show to know there are no static F1 or F2 boxes. The edit is a chimera, fashioned from pieces of the personalities they get every season. Not only that, but we all read different things into the edit based upon our personalities, culture, relationship history, etc. -- and once we pick a favorite based upon those things, we then have a further vested interest in our horse winning, because it validates our perspective on things. Not the most objective way to assess a situation!

Let me give you an example from my field: there was a well-publicized study done on lawyers, in which a group of people was divided up into two sections, and each person assigned the role of plaintiff's or defendant's counsel. Everyone was then given the EXACT SAME FACTS to read -- word for word -- and asked who they thought would win. Surprise! The people who were assigned the role of plaintiff's counsel overwhelmingly thought plaintiff would win, and defendant's counsel were similarly convinced for the defendant.

In TB, as in law, we pick a "winner" and then filter everything we see, through that lens. The edit is NOT evidence of who wins. This is an entertainment show, the goal of which is to generate ratings, not a love story for all the ages. At this point, TB has been around for-freaking-ever: its ability to survive and generate ratings season after season depends on its ability to shake things up and keep it fresh. So if you're going off what happened in last season's edit, or the season before, or even way back to the Ultimate Grand D-Bag Alex Michel with the whipped cream in the fantasy suite (god help me for remembering that), you're at best taking a guess, just like the unspoiled masses who watch this show for fun.

So remember, folks, at this point in the season everyone who cares to has picked their "horse" and sees everything through that lens. It's also worth repeating that the edited version of what we see on our screens has very little relation to the actual personalities behind the edit -- so the "horse" you've picked onscreen may be a complete horse's ass in real life. The opposite also can be true. I'd hate to be judged on the worst sixty seconds of my day, you know? Nor would it be fair of me to be judged on the best sixty seconds. I'm a well-meaning but flawed person, just like most people out there.

And just to be fair, I'll show my cards: I watched the beginning of this season unspoiled, to see if I could pick the winner. At the end of the first episode, I picked JP and Ames as the final two, with Ashley feeling torn between her head (Ames, Ivy League, great on paper) and heart (JP, construction, good chemistry). I had Ben F. in my top four, based purely upon the fact that I thought he was hot and I'm kind of a recovering lush who really likes good wine. 8)

Speaking of which, I'm going to pour myself a glass and go to bed. Happy watching, everyone!

Alanna wrote:I am so jealous, Agent!!!! Yay!!!! Please PM someone when you come back and spill as much as you can without TPTB showing up to haul you to jail for life. Have so much fun!!!!

Alanna wrote:I am so jealous, Agent!!!! Yay!!!! Please PM someone when you come back and spill as much as you can without TPTB showing up to haul you to jail for life. Have so much fun!!!!

Pattycake92 wrote:

Alanna wrote:I am so jealous, Agent!!!! Yay!!!! Please PM someone when you come back and spill as much as you can without TPTB showing up to haul you to jail for life. Have so much fun!!!!

We can keep it on the DL!!! It's not like we dont know anyway, right Alanna

deedreamer wrote:

Pattycake92 wrote:

Alanna wrote:I am so jealous, Agent!!!! Yay!!!! Please PM someone when you come back and spill as much as you can without TPTB showing up to haul you to jail for life. Have so much fun!!!!

We can keep it on the DL!!! It's not like we dont know anyway, right Alanna

We just need to know if they served cupcakes or wine right????

emusha wrote:you know you can even say affirmative or yup or bingo in any thread...and we'll get it or even a smiley will do haha!

emusha wrote:you know you can even say affirmative or yup or bingo in any thread...and we'll get it or even a smiley will do haha!

Pattycake92 wrote:

Alanna wrote:I am so jealous, Agent!!!! Yay!!!! Please PM someone when you come back and spill as much as you can without TPTB showing up to haul you to jail for life. Have so much fun!!!!

We can keep it on the DL!!! It's not like we dont know anyway, right Alanna

philphan wrote:

sushifan wrote:Since it's that time of the season, when everyone has run out of things to sleuth and instead is arguing why the edit points to his/her favorite, I thought this bore reminding:

It is a mistake to "sleuth" from the edit. We've seen enough seasons of this show to know there are no static F1 or F2 boxes. The edit is a chimera, fashioned from pieces of the personalities they get every season. Not only that, but we all read different things into the edit based upon our personalities, culture, relationship history, etc. -- and once we pick a favorite based upon those things, we then have a further vested interest in our horse winning, because it validates our perspective on things. Not the most objective way to assess a situation!

Let me give you an example from my field: there was a well-publicized study done on lawyers, in which a group of people was divided up into two sections, and each person assigned the role of plaintiff's or defendant's counsel. Everyone was then given the EXACT SAME FACTS to read -- word for word -- and asked who they thought would win. Surprise! The people who were assigned the role of plaintiff's counsel overwhelmingly thought plaintiff would win, and defendant's counsel were similarly convinced for the defendant.

In TB, as in law, we pick a "winner" and then filter everything we see, through that lens. The edit is NOT evidence of who wins. This is an entertainment show, the goal of which is to generate ratings, not a love story for all the ages. At this point, TB has been around for-freaking-ever: its ability to survive and generate ratings season after season depends on its ability to shake things up and keep it fresh. So if you're going off what happened in last season's edit, or the season before, or even way back to the Ultimate Grand D-Bag Alex Michel with the whipped cream in the fantasy suite (god help me for remembering that), you're at best taking a guess, just like the unspoiled masses who watch this show for fun.

So remember, folks, at this point in the season everyone who cares to has picked their "horse" and sees everything through that lens. It's also worth repeating that the edited version of what we see on our screens has very little relation to the actual personalities behind the edit -- so the "horse" you've picked onscreen may be a complete horse's ass in real life. The opposite also can be true. I'd hate to be judged on the worst sixty seconds of my day, you know? Nor would it be fair of me to be judged on the best sixty seconds. I'm a well-meaning but flawed person, just like most people out there.

And just to be fair, I'll show my cards: I watched the beginning of this season unspoiled, to see if I could pick the winner. At the end of the first episode, I picked JP and Ames as the final two, with Ashley feeling torn between her head (Ames, Ivy League, great on paper) and heart (JP, construction, good chemistry). I had Ben F. in my top four, based purely upon the fact that I thought he was hot and I'm kind of a recovering lush who really likes good wine. 8)

Speaking of which, I'm going to pour myself a glass and go to bed. Happy watching, everyone!

Finally catching up with yesterday's posts...

GREAT GREAT post SushiFan!! I also picked JP as a frontrunner early on because I saw him have a very natural connection with Ashley. I also think she is pretty darned transparent and there was no way to hide it. Fleiss was finally smart and decided to highlight the connection and transparency rather than hide it. Unfortunately we had to deal with the Bentley stuff to divert our attention away for awhile.
By dissecting the edit we sometimes miss some of the storyline being shown right in front of us. JP's insecurities (jealousy) shouldn't be construed as a negative F1 edit but rather part of the plotline for how Ashley and JP overcome these obstacles and get together in the end.