Episode 12 - 8/1 After the Final Rose - Discussion - Spoilers

bluwavz wrote:

Barbarossa wrote:I was thinking about something late last night. As a guy who has not gotten emotionally invested in anyone this season (like Ashley and both guys fine, just not emotionally attached to any outcome) i've got no dog in this fight. I seem to remember Ali's season, when Fleiss knew the spoilers were wrong and could sew tremendous uncertainty, the closed the ATFR taping for the first time in ages. I'm not sure, but it seems this season that they are taping early and I have not heard that the set is closed.

Logic says 2 things are very probable ( at least to me):

1) there is no huge surprise (wedding)

2) the cat is already out of the bag on the outcome.

Just my humble opinion.

I agree. I don't think there's a wedding and I don't think there's a big surprise at the end, at least when it comes to who she picked. I'll admit the whole wedding theme this season gives me a bit of a pause and I wonder if they were at least trying to get a wedding at the end of this.

emusha wrote:I think the wedding stuff may also be a way of getting the show refocused on what it's about -- vs. the debacle that unfolded with Bremily... to keep giving the messaging that they are trying to get couples with that end goal in mind? there's definitely been some format changes this season what with the wedding stuff and zero extreme dates, wonder if it's Ashley's suggestion or the producers... does anyone remember how Ashley responded to all the extreme stuff?
personally, I find the wedding and sit-down dates boring cos they're not giving us anything that interesting like stimulating convo (minus when Ames is on the screen) --- it's been a very boring season thus far IMO - an this has nothing to do with the cast members/ashley and her boys it's all about the editing for me...

ironcat wrote:Honestly, if it weren't for my enjoyment of watching JP, and seeing him fall for Ashley, this season would have been a bust for me as far as entertainment. Boring dates for the most part. I commend all the non-JP fans for sticking it out actually, I wouldn't have.

ironcat wrote:Honestly, if it weren't for my enjoyment of watching JP, and seeing him fall for Ashley, this season would have been a bust for me as far as entertainment. Boring dates for the most part. I commend all the non-JP fans for sticking it out actually, I wouldn't have.

bluwavz wrote:

emusha wrote:I think the wedding stuff may also be a way of getting the show refocused on what it's about -- vs. the debacle that unfolded with Bremily... to keep giving the messaging that they are trying to get couples with that end goal in mind? there's definitely been some format changes this season what with the wedding stuff and zero extreme dates, wonder if it's Ashley's suggestion or the producers... does anyone remember how Ashley responded to all the extreme stuff?
personally, I find the wedding and sit-down dates boring cos they're not giving us anything that interesting like stimulating convo (minus when Ames is on the screen) --- it's been a very boring season thus far IMO - an this has nothing to do with the cast members/ashley and her boys it's all about the editing for me...

We found out Ashley is afraid of helicopters in Brad's season, so that may be why we're not seeing anything extreme this season. Which is too bad because that's what I loved about Jillian's season. I also like Ashley and the guys this season, but I have to agree it's been a boring season and I just can't wait to see who we'll have next season and hope that it's much better and less predictable than this one has been. This board and it's members have made it more exciting, though, and I'm glad I found it.

bluwavz wrote:

Kelad9 wrote:

albean99 wrote:

JBF wrote:

Diana wrote: think her top 4 for the first night were JP, ..., Will and Ryan

What makes the situation so bad is that she does not PI about Ben that first episode. He comments on HER though. The ones she discusses on screen are Ryan, JP, Willie, Bentley, drunk Tim and Jeff. This, for me, was the first red flag against Ben being final 1. You would think they would include SOME comment suggesting that she remembered their conversation.

On the plus side, we DID see his 1 on 1 with her. Ames' was missing and Constantine's was an "extra" deleted scene.

It all depends what edit they're going for with Ben if he's the f1. It's not usual but everyone keeps saying this season is different and it is in a way because the Bentley drama went on for so long and she gave him so much of her attention. If Ben's the f2 it's just as important to show him as the alternative from early on. It's possible Ben's getting the slow burning love edit, the dark horse who slowly but surely wins her heart, the Tortoise and the Hare --- take your pick. We do have some indication about it from some DH comments.

Thanks for explaining, GrahamGal. When you said he got a group date rose I was thinking about the one he got alone. We can't say for sure that Ben didn't get time with Ashley or a kiss either time because we didn't see it but it appeared that everyone got time with her. When was it he said he'd kissed Ashley to JP & Blake?

I think he said it to JP in the Las Vegas episode but I'm not positive. So he's at least been with her before episode 4 but TPTB chose not to show that kiss. Can someone with a better memory help me out here?

I thought he said it to JP in episode 4 before the group date (please correct me if I'm wrong) and they were both talking with Blake about Ashley possibly kissing Constantine. It's not clear whether or not Ben was just joking with JP or if he really did kiss her.

philphan wrote:I must be an old stick in the mud. I didn't really find this season that boring. I finally saw a love story develop in front of my eyes and saw people having real conversation and doing things that they would do in real life. I will say that some of the dates were a little ridiculous though. Not a big fan of the boxing date or wedding photos date either.

I guess for ME it's not the adrenaline dates....it's the storyline that builds with the F1/F2 that makes for a good show. Fleiss was generous to us in that respect this season.

philphan wrote:I must be an old stick in the mud. I didn't really find this season that boring. I finally saw a love story develop in front of my eyes and saw people having real conversation and doing things that they would do in real life. I will say that some of the dates were a little ridiculous though. Not a big fan of the boxing date or wedding photos date either.

I guess for ME it's not the adrenaline dates....it's the storyline that builds with the F1/F2 that makes for a good show. Fleiss was generous to us in that respect this season.

ironcat wrote:Regarding the shortened dates, I think it's highly possible that JP's first date was supposed to start earlier in the day, but due to Bentley leaving (wasn't it the morning of the date?), Ashley needed more time to "compose herself" and the date was delayed until evening. I mentioned in an earlier post why Bentley's leaving, coming on top of losing 2 more of her original F4 picks, hit her so hard, so I can understand her meltdown being about more than just losing Bentley, but feeling that she was a total failure as a Bachelorette on the whole. In fact, her feeling that way may account for CH's claims that they almost had to "shut down production", if Ashley really doubted she was cut out for the lead role at that point, based on everything going wrong.

I have always suspected that Ryan was originally supposed to get the HK date, but Ashley, after kicking Bentley to the curb, wanted to have alone time with JP to tell him, so they switched his date which was planned for the following week (which might have even been planned to be the overnight date, although I suspect the producers wanted Ben to have a chance to "catch up" with him and would have insisted he have that one regardless) to the shorter, dinner date that week. And as has been often said, we have no idea how late in the evening (or early morning) that date ended.

On to HTDs. What time did JP's start? Maybe, due to scheduling issues, it started in the morning, while the other dates started in the afternoon. And if his date ended just before sunset and Ben's ended just after sunset, it may have been a difference of only a couple of hours at most. And something else that nobody's mentioned on any of these dates, is how much time is actually spent with Ashley vs on long breaks with the crew setting up or finagling with the shot, or pulling the people aside to give PIs and whatnot. Some of those dates may have taken hours and hours, but more due to production "issues" than because the couple was spending extra quality time together.