Episode 12 - 8/1 After the Final Rose - Discussion - Spoilers

Pattycake92 wrote:I don't think she was ever that interested in Ryan. He was a producer pick all the way. I mean she even gave Ben C a date before Ryan.

Thank you for explaining.

Pattycake92 wrote:I don't think she was ever that interested in Ryan. He was a producer pick all the way. I mean she even gave Ben C a date before Ryan.

I would agree with you based on the fact that he didn't even get his first 1:1 until episode 8 (or was it 9) and was eliminated right from the date. I think Ryan sounded appealing to her on night 1, but it never developed. Her body language with him was pretty obvious to me.

albean99 wrote:

GrahamGal wrote:

chicagoowl wrote:

emusha wrote:I hope one of the journalists will help clear this up in her media tour post-show
I don't think it was instant but JP was prolly in the top 5 for her night 1

Yes... even after JP lost the coin toss date, she told him to hang in there and enjoy the ride. She always kept reassuring him that there would be "good things to come". She had him pegged at F1 or F2 from the first night.

Yep and even though he lost the coin flip he got a kiss and a 1-1 the next week with more kisses. Ben on the other hand got a group date rose, no date the next week and no kisses either week.

Are you talking the orphanage group date rose? Ben got kisses that night plus a 1 on 1 date the next week & more kisses with Ashley talking about jumping on him with her cute little growl.

Does anyone think that Chris & Peyton are going to make an appearance at the ATFR show? They're in CA.

No, I was referring to Jabawakees and the next week. I used Coastal charts. So weeks 2 and 3. I think you are talking about 4 and 5.

Diana wrote: think her top 4 for the first night were JP, ..., Will and Ryan

What makes the situation so bad is that she does not PI about Ben that first episode. He comments on HER though. The ones she discusses on screen are Ryan, JP, Willie, Bentley, drunk Tim and Jeff. This, for me, was the first red flag against Ben being final 1. You would think they would include SOME comment suggesting that she remembered their conversation.

On the plus side, we DID see his 1 on 1 with her. Ames' was missing and Constantine's was an "extra" deleted scene.

I was thinking about something late last night. As a guy who has not gotten emotionally invested in anyone this season (like Ashley and both guys fine, just not emotionally attached to any outcome) i've got no dog in this fight. I seem to remember Ali's season, when Fleiss knew the spoilers were wrong and could sew tremendous uncertainty, the closed the ATFR taping for the first time in ages. I'm not sure, but it seems this season that they are taping early and I have not heard that the set is closed.

Logic says 2 things are very probable ( at least to me):

1) there is no huge surprise (wedding)

2) the cat is already out of the bag on the outcome.

Just my humble opinion.

JBF wrote:

Diana wrote: think her top 4 for the first night were JP, ..., Will and Ryan

What makes the situation so bad is that she does not PI about Ben that first episode. He comments on HER though. The ones she discusses on screen are Ryan, JP, Willie, Bentley, drunk Tim and Jeff. This, for me, was the first red flag against Ben being final 1. You would think they would include SOME comment suggesting that she remembered their conversation.

On the plus side, we DID see his 1 on 1 with her. Ames' was missing and Constantine's was an "extra" deleted scene.

It all depends what edit they're going for with Ben if he's the f1. It's not usual but everyone keeps saying this season is different and it is in a way because the Bentley drama went on for so long and she gave him so much of her attention. If Ben's the f2 it's just as important to show him as the alternative from early on. It's possible Ben's getting the slow burning love edit, the dark horse who slowly but surely wins her heart, the Tortoise and the Hare --- take your pick. We do have some indication about it from some DH comments.

Thanks for explaining, GrahamGal. When you said he got a group date rose I was thinking about the one he got alone. We can't say for sure that Ben didn't get time with Ashley or a kiss either time because we didn't see it but it appeared that everyone got time with her. When was it he said he'd kissed Ashley to JP & Blake?

albean99 wrote:

JBF wrote:

Diana wrote: think her top 4 for the first night were JP, ..., Will and Ryan

What makes the situation so bad is that she does not PI about Ben that first episode. He comments on HER though. The ones she discusses on screen are Ryan, JP, Willie, Bentley, drunk Tim and Jeff. This, for me, was the first red flag against Ben being final 1. You would think they would include SOME comment suggesting that she remembered their conversation.

On the plus side, we DID see his 1 on 1 with her. Ames' was missing and Constantine's was an "extra" deleted scene.

It all depends what edit they're going for with Ben if he's the f1. It's not usual but everyone keeps saying this season is different and it is in a way because the Bentley drama went on for so long and she gave him so much of her attention. If Ben's the f2 it's just as important to show him as the alternative from early on. It's possible Ben's getting the slow burning love edit, the dark horse who slowly but surely wins her heart, the Tortoise and the Hare --- take your pick. We do have some indication about it from some DH comments.

Thanks for explaining, GrahamGal. When you said he got a group date rose I was thinking about the one he got alone. We can't say for sure that Ben didn't get time with Ashley or a kiss either time because we didn't see it but it appeared that everyone got time with her. When was it he said he'd kissed Ashley to JP & Blake?

I think he said it to JP in the Las Vegas episode but I'm not positive. So he's at least been with her before episode 4 but TPTB chose not to show that kiss. Can someone with a better memory help me out here?

Barbarossa wrote:I was thinking about something late last night. As a guy who has not gotten emotionally invested in anyone this season (like Ashley and both guys fine, just not emotionally attached to any outcome) i've got no dog in this fight. I seem to remember Ali's season, when Fleiss knew the spoilers were wrong and could sew tremendous uncertainty, the closed the ATFR taping for the first time in ages. I'm not sure, but it seems this season that they are taping early and I have not heard that the set is closed.

Logic says 2 things are very probable ( at least to me):

1) there is no huge surprise (wedding)

2) the cat is already out of the bag on the outcome.

Just my humble opinion.

I agree. I don't think there's a wedding and I don't think there's a big surprise at the end, at least when it comes to who she picked. I'll admit the whole wedding theme this season gives me a bit of a pause and I wonder if they were at least trying to get a wedding at the end of this.

First night, first impressions: Constantine, Bentley, JP and Ryan

JBF wrote:

Diana wrote: think her top 4 for the first night were JP, ..., Will and Ryan

What makes the situation so bad is that she does not PI about Ben that first episode. He comments on HER though. The ones she discusses on screen are Ryan, JP, Willie, Bentley, drunk Tim and Jeff. This, for me, was the first red flag against Ben being final 1. You would think they would include SOME comment suggesting that she remembered their conversation.

On the plus side, we DID see his 1 on 1 with her. Ames' was missing and Constantine's was an "extra" deleted scene.

I think it's pretty obvious that Ben F wasn't really on her radar, other than she thought he was her "type" looks-wise, until the fourth episode. Otherwise, he would have been given a solo date before the fifth episode. I think he wasn't very aggressive in approaching her to spend time together, and she was busy with other guys. That's also why his early claim that he had kissed her already, to me, was clearly meant as a joke. When on the orphanage date, he told her she was buzzing around him more, that indicated that she was finally taking the initiative to seek him out and spend some actual time with him, as at this point, she knew that she needed to find a few more contenders, as many of her early picks had fizzled.

I agree that her first night top picks were JP, Bentley, William and Ryan, with perhaps some interest in Mickey as well (why he and JP got the coin toss). I think her interest in Ryan, which was largely based on his looks and resume, got dimmer and dimmer the more she got to know him, but she was encouraged by producers to keep trying to find some sort of connection with him.

Kelad9 wrote:

albean99 wrote:

JBF wrote:

Diana wrote: think her top 4 for the first night were JP, ..., Will and Ryan

What makes the situation so bad is that she does not PI about Ben that first episode. He comments on HER though. The ones she discusses on screen are Ryan, JP, Willie, Bentley, drunk Tim and Jeff. This, for me, was the first red flag against Ben being final 1. You would think they would include SOME comment suggesting that she remembered their conversation.

On the plus side, we DID see his 1 on 1 with her. Ames' was missing and Constantine's was an "extra" deleted scene.

It all depends what edit they're going for with Ben if he's the f1. It's not usual but everyone keeps saying this season is different and it is in a way because the Bentley drama went on for so long and she gave him so much of her attention. If Ben's the f2 it's just as important to show him as the alternative from early on. It's possible Ben's getting the slow burning love edit, the dark horse who slowly but surely wins her heart, the Tortoise and the Hare --- take your pick. We do have some indication about it from some DH comments.

Thanks for explaining, GrahamGal. When you said he got a group date rose I was thinking about the one he got alone. We can't say for sure that Ben didn't get time with Ashley or a kiss either time because we didn't see it but it appeared that everyone got time with her. When was it he said he'd kissed Ashley to JP & Blake?

I think he said it to JP in the Las Vegas episode but I'm not positive. So he's at least been with her before episode 4 but TPTB chose not to show that kiss. Can someone with a better memory help me out here?

I thought he said it to JP in episode 4 before the group date (please correct me if I'm wrong) and they were both talking with Blake about Ashley possibly kissing Constantine. It's not clear whether or not Ben was just joking with JP or if he really did kiss her.

I think the wedding stuff may also be a way of getting the show refocused on what it's about -- vs. the debacle that unfolded with Bremily... to keep giving the messaging that they are trying to get couples with that end goal in mind? there's definitely been some format changes this season what with the wedding stuff and zero extreme dates, wonder if it's Ashley's suggestion or the producers... does anyone remember how Ashley responded to all the extreme stuff?
personally, I find the wedding and sit-down dates boring cos they're not giving us anything that interesting like stimulating convo (minus when Ames is on the screen) --- it's been a very boring season thus far IMO - an this has nothing to do with the cast members/ashley and her boys it's all about the editing for me...