Episode 12 - 8/1 After the Final Rose - Discussion - Spoilers

etherealfire wrote:She absolutely did notice JP and a few others right away - I think there were half a dozen guys on her radar and I suspect both Dino and Ben were included in that group - JMO. Meanwhile, the DB Bentley story is so TPTB produced and overblown. I just don't believe she was nearly as invested as they have made out in the story. I think at least in a minor way, she is complicit in participating in that storyline but that is mostly all that it ever was.

I don't understand the notion that unless she knew absolutely, unequivocally who the one was from the first night and she never, ever deviated from that choice that she couldn't possibly have fallen for somebody by the end of the six weeks. Attraction happens very quickly; getting to know someone in a week or more can absolutely lead to a romantic attraction. Let's face it: the engagement at the end of this show is largely a farce. The couples who do make it in the long haul, make it after the show ends and once they can actually get down to the work of building on a relationship. The engagement at the end of this show is, in the best case scenario, an unspoken mutual agreement between the two parties to begin working on a relationship that will hopefully end up permanent in some form: long term relationship, living together, marriage. That is the best that the couple can hope for when this silly little show wraps up. Ashley and her F1, whomever he may be, has every bit of a chance to make it (or not) as any other couple on the show. I hope that they do, but I won't consider it fake or a failure if they don't end up married in a year's time.

Eagle Eye wrote:

pbmax wrote:

Eagle Eye wrote:

pbmax wrote:

Love_Me wrote:

For everyone who still thinks it can't be JP because it's too obvious

I don't think JP became too obvious until Bentley left for some viewers.

And for some, not until HK. If she continues with this charade. Like I said before JP was there in the beginning along with Bentley. Why didn't she see him then.

Ben was there in the beginning as well, was he not? Why didn't she see HIM then?

He sure was, and she didn't see him either.

Oh, she saw JP, all right. I'm not sure to which "charade" you're referring, but it's clear to me that JP caught her eye from the beginning. She was temporarily infatuated with Bentley and once she got that out of her system, it was JP all the way.

CarrieAlexander wrote:She was blinded by Bentley temporarily

Alanna wrote:

CarrieAlexander wrote:She was blinded by Bentley temporarily

What? Carrie, don't you know that once a woman screws up, she never deserves to be with a good guy anymore and must commit to raising cats her whole life? Those are the rules!

northernviewer wrote:

Alanna wrote:

CarrieAlexander wrote:She was blinded by Bentley temporarily

What? Carrie, don't you know that once a woman screws up, she never deserves to be with a good guy anymore and must commit to raising cats her whole life? Those are the rules!

That whole Bentley drama was an over-exaggeration crush IMO She knew him about 8 days, saw him at the M&G, a RC and 2 group dates. He didn't even rate a 1/1 in the coveted first 2 episodes of dates after the M&G, so I dont' think he was as prominent in her mind as the edit has shown. Bentley also came to tell her he was leaving after that roast fiasco, which had left her emotionally vulnerable to start. He tells her he cares for her but has to leave because of his daughter **gag** At an extreme low when she's feeling so insecure that some of the guys preferred Emily or Chantal to her.... she broke down and cried for a "what could have been" which was based on a playa feeding her lines. IMO she wasn't as into Bentley as the edit and coached VO's seem to indicate. He just had the look she was into, and so did Ben, Constantine..... so did she even pick them for personality in the first place? or would any guy with long hair have got the rose? those are things that make me go hmmmmmmm

Coastal wrote:

ironcat wrote:For everyone who still thinks it can't be JP because it's too obvious, try to imagine what other options the producers had for editing the show that would have been less obvious, and what that finished product would have looked like, and whether it would have gotten the kind of ratings that this show did. IOW, if they cut out much of the kissing/chemistry with JP, what exactly would we have been watching and why? Yes, I know some people still believe Ashley had this smoking hot connection with Ben, and it's all on the cutting room floor. But what if she just didn't? Do the producers then put together a boring show, where Ashley is shown to have no real chemistry with any of her final 4 guys, in the opinions of the majority of viewers, just for the sake of hiding the final outcome?

I am going to ask this and probably get bombarded for doing so, but last season with Brad.......who felt that the connection between Brad and Chantal was smoking hot?? Yet we all know she was F2, so how is that differrent?

Coastal wrote:

ironcat wrote:For everyone who still thinks it can't be JP because it's too obvious, try to imagine what other options the producers had for editing the show that would have been less obvious, and what that finished product would have looked like, and whether it would have gotten the kind of ratings that this show did. IOW, if they cut out much of the kissing/chemistry with JP, what exactly would we have been watching and why? Yes, I know some people still believe Ashley had this smoking hot connection with Ben, and it's all on the cutting room floor. But what if she just didn't? Do the producers then put together a boring show, where Ashley is shown to have no real chemistry with any of her final 4 guys, in the opinions of the majority of viewers, just for the sake of hiding the final outcome?

I am going to ask this and probably get bombarded for doing so, but last season with Brad.......who felt that the connection between Brad and Chantal was smoking hot?? Yet we all know she was F2, so how is that differrent?

ironcat wrote:

Coastal wrote:

ironcat wrote:For everyone who still thinks it can't be JP because it's too obvious, try to imagine what other options the producers had for editing the show that would have been less obvious, and what that finished product would have looked like, and whether it would have gotten the kind of ratings that this show did. IOW, if they cut out much of the kissing/chemistry with JP, what exactly would we have been watching and why? Yes, I know some people still believe Ashley had this smoking hot connection with Ben, and it's all on the cutting room floor. But what if she just didn't? Do the producers then put together a boring show, where Ashley is shown to have no real chemistry with any of her final 4 guys, in the opinions of the majority of viewers, just for the sake of hiding the final outcome?

I am going to ask this and probably get bombarded for doing so, but last season with Brad.......who felt that the connection between Brad and Chantal was smoking hot?? Yet we all know she was F2, so how is that differrent?

First of all, let me state that having people respond to you with a differing opinion, instead of just agreeing with you, does NOT constitute being bombarded. (And playing the victim is not an attractive quality, and it doesn't work on me, just sayin".)

Secondly, I don't think that men and women can be compared when it comes to their way of dealing with physical vs emotional connection; as several have said, including Lucas, our resident male on this board, men tend to separate sex from love, and have no problem making out with the "sexy" one while pining after the one they really want. Women typically don't do this.

Thirdly, you sort of missed my point. Let's pose the hypothetical that Brad HAD actually picked Chantal, the one he DID have the hot chemistry with. Would they have hidden all of that in the edit? Not if there was no other hot sexy chemistry to show with any of the other women they wouldn't have. Brad made it an easy editing decision for the producers in that he picked the more proper, reserved woman, and not the one he had the upfront, obvious chemistry with. But assuming Ashley did the opposite, there really wasn't any other way to edit and end up with an interesting show other than the way they did it.

People have to realize when analyzing the edit that the edit does not come first, the facts on the ground do (ie, who the lead picks). The producers then construct the edit to make the most compelling show they can based on what they have to work with. Since every season, they have something different to work with (and sometimes an outcome that is particularly unique), the edit can't be determined in advance, nor can it always be recycled from the previous season, or sometimes any season.

Moving on to Bentley, it appears to me that Ashley, after spending some time getting to know her top 4 picks, who were Bentley, JP, William, and Ryan, realized by the time the third episode was playing out, that only 2 were still of interest, and they became her co-frontrunners. These would be Bentley and JP. (William and Ryan both fell out of favor at the roast, for totally different reasons.) When Bentley decided to leave, remember she hadn't even been on one date with JP, either solo or a group date, but he she had kissed him and had a connection with him that even she didn't fully understand. But Bentley, based on having been on two group dates with him, was still more familiar to her than JP at the time that he left, so of course, she freaked out. The day before, 2 of her presumed F4 had cast a lot of doubt on themselves (William with his behavior at the roast, Ryan because that makeout session kind of turned her off physically to him), and now, the guy she felt she knew best, and who she felt REALLY liked her, drops out, leaving her with one guy who she likes, but hasn't even had a date with. Turned out to be a great date of course, but she is not allowed by the show to put all her eggs in one basket, so she needs, once they go abroad, to try to find some connection with a few of the guys she had previously overlooked. Enter Dino, Ames and Ben, and she feels comfortable enough with all three (and none of them are too aggressive with her) to consider bringing them all to the end, along with JP. So she now has her F4, but she still had the Bentley "what if" hanging over her head, and once she started realizing she was falling for JP, needed to close that loop, so she wouldn't ever wonder, before going further. When he came back (I'm sure she would have been happy with just a phonecall, but of course the show was going to pull out all the stops, and it also gave her the false impression that Bentley really WANTED to see her again, which wasn't the case), she was able, with fresh eyes and more confidence in herself, to finally see that Bentley was really a BS artist, and he wasn't as into her as he had pretended to be, and that "reality check" woke her up and made her recognize/appreciate the great guy who actually WAS into her, and she couldn't wait to let him know what was happening, which she did when they had their date 2 days later.

ironcat wrote:

Coastal wrote:

ironcat wrote:For everyone who still thinks it can't be JP because it's too obvious, try to imagine what other options the producers had for editing the show that would have been less obvious, and what that finished product would have looked like, and whether it would have gotten the kind of ratings that this show did. IOW, if they cut out much of the kissing/chemistry with JP, what exactly would we have been watching and why? Yes, I know some people still believe Ashley had this smoking hot connection with Ben, and it's all on the cutting room floor. But what if she just didn't? Do the producers then put together a boring show, where Ashley is shown to have no real chemistry with any of her final 4 guys, in the opinions of the majority of viewers, just for the sake of hiding the final outcome?

I am going to ask this and probably get bombarded for doing so, but last season with Brad.......who felt that the connection between Brad and Chantal was smoking hot?? Yet we all know she was F2, so how is that differrent?

First of all, let me state that having people respond to you with a differing opinion, instead of just agreeing with you, does NOT constitute being bombarded. (And playing the victim is not an attractive quality, and it doesn't work on me, just sayin'.)

Secondly, I don't think that men and women can be compared when it comes to their way of dealing with physical vs emotional connection; as several have said, including Lucas, our resident male on this board, men tend to separate sex from love, and have no problem making out with the "sexy" one while pining after the one they really want. Women typically don't do this.

Thirdly, you sort of missed my point. Let's pose the hypothetical that Brad HAD actually picked Chantal, the one he DID have the hot chemistry with. Would they have hidden all of that in the edit? Not if there was no other hot sexy chemistry to show with any of the other women they wouldn't have. Brad made it an easy editing decision for the producers in that he picked the more proper, reserved woman, and not the one he had the upfront, obvious chemistry with. But assuming Ashley did the opposite, there really wasn't any other way to edit and end up with an interesting show other than the way they did it.

People have to realize when analyzing the edit that the edit does not come first, the facts on the ground do (ie, who the lead picks). The producers then construct the edit to make the most compelling show they can based on what they have to work with. Since every season, they have something different to work with (and sometimes an outcome that is particularly unique), the edit can't be determined in advance, nor can it always be recycled in its entirety from the previous season, or sometimes from any season.

Moving on to Bentley, it appears to me that Ashley, after spending some time getting to know her top 4 picks, who were Bentley, JP, William, and Ryan, realized by the time the third episode was playing out, that only 2 were still of interest, and they became her co-frontrunners. These would be Bentley and JP. (William and Ryan both fell out of favor at the roast, for totally different reasons.) When Bentley decided to leave, remember she hadn't even been on one date with JP, either solo or a group date, but she had kissed him and had a connection with him that even she didn't fully understand. But Bentley, based on having been on two group dates with him, was still more familiar to her than JP at the time that he left, so of course, she freaked out. The day before, 2 of her presumed F4 had cast a lot of doubt on themselves (William with his behavior at the roast, Ryan because that makeout session kind of turned her off physically to him), and now, the guy she felt she knew best, and who she felt REALLY liked her, drops out, leaving her with one guy who she likes, but hasn't even had a date with. Turned out to be a great date of course, but she is not allowed by the show to put all her eggs in one basket, so she needs, once they go abroad, to try to find some connection with a few of the guys she had previously overlooked. Enter Dino, Ames and Ben, and she feels comfortable enough with all three (and none of them are too aggressive with her) to consider bringing them all to the end, along with JP. So she now has her F4, but she still had the Bentley "what if" hanging over her head, and once she started realizing she was falling for JP, needed to close that loop, so she wouldn't ever wonder, before going further. When he came back (I'm sure she would have been happy with just a phonecall, but of course the show was going to pull out all the stops, and it also gave her the false impression that Bentley really WANTED to see her again, which wasn't the case), she was able, with fresh eyes and more confidence in herself, to finally see that Bentley was really a BS artist, and he wasn't as into her as he had pretended to be, and that "reality check" woke her up and made her recognize/appreciate the great guy who actually WAS into her, and she couldn't wait to let him know what was happening, which she did when they had their date 2 days later.