Episode 8 - 7/18 Hometown dates - Discussion - Spoilers

Nibbles22 wrote:

northernviewer wrote:

clueless wrote:Interesting conversation about JP and Ashley and the degree of intimacy they seem to have.

When I watched one of the latest previews with the scene between Ashley and Ben when she is rubbing the lotion on his chest, Ben asked if that was ok (or something to that effect). That seems odd to me and it seems odd to me because in this point in time if they were intimate or physically/emotionally close I do not think he would have to ask, he would know if it's ok. JMO of course and just a scene I have speculated on. Thoughts?

I mentioned, I think yesterday, that after rewatching that preview it wasn't as "hot" as I first thought. she's sitting back on his thighs and when she kisses him, it's her signature peck and then she very carefully got off of him. She does have to play a part on all these dates, just like all the other leads do, but IMO she's much less convincing than others have been.

I was expecting a level of *hot* between the two of them too, until I actually saw the preview. I do not
mean to disrespect Ben, however, the entire scene felt like obligatory lead duties when it comes to the
F2. Ashley was much more transparent than any others. It was like you said NV, she was sitting back on
this thighs, and a quick peck. With JP, it's authentic passion!

One good thing about Ashley being an easy read with her feelings is that I don't think that Ben will be too heartbroken at the FRC . I'm sure being F2 does sting a little, even if it's just pride, but I think it was easier than most for Ben to go back home and get on with his life as I'm sure when he refected on the events of the few months of taping, he knew deep down that Ashley was more into JP from the getgo.

Nibbles22 wrote:

northernviewer wrote:

clueless wrote:Interesting conversation about JP and Ashley and the degree of intimacy they seem to have.

When I watched one of the latest previews with the scene between Ashley and Ben when she is rubbing the lotion on his chest, Ben asked if that was ok (or something to that effect). That seems odd to me and it seems odd to me because in this point in time if they were intimate or physically/emotionally close I do not think he would have to ask, he would know if it's ok. JMO of course and just a scene I have speculated on. Thoughts?

I mentioned, I think yesterday, that after rewatching that preview it wasn't as "hot" as I first thought. she's sitting back on his thighs and when she kisses him, it's her signature peck and then she very carefully got off of him. She does have to play a part on all these dates, just like all the other leads do, but IMO she's much less convincing than others have been.

I was expecting a level of *hot* between the two of them too, until I actually saw the preview. I do not
mean to disrespect Ben, however, the entire scene felt like obligatory lead duties when it comes to the
F2. Ashley was much more transparent than any others. It was like you said NV, she was sitting back on
this thighs, and a quick peck. With JP, it's authentic passion!

I wouldn't totally disregard the sunscreening. It may not be hot to some viewers but it's very flirty and they're clearly having fun with it. It wasn't the time or place for more than that. I know it gets disregarded but Ashley does like to get up to Ben's level when she's kissing him. It seems to be their thing and is the way to get closer to him while they're kissing because of his height. Why do that? It's not expected of her.

I don't think anyone's trying to say that Ben & Ashley are as far along in the intimacy scale if there is one but he & JP are two completely different people and he's moving slower in the emotional side also. I think that's a good thing. :Nod:

Ryan would be on Trista's left if she was facing them like the recent bachelorettes do.

ironcat wrote:

onlyme wrote:

When I look at this SC I have to wonder also if JP was this 'forward' with Ashley because she was giving him signs that he could. What I am trying to say is maybe he got the vibe from Ashley that he could be that intimate and she responded in kind.

Now for the million $ question, do we have anything like this with Ben and is it on the cutting room floor? For me, I'm guessing no. I see more of a very good friend vibe with Ben. I really like Ben. I would love to see him with Shawntel.

We can't forget that Ashley is the one with all the power in this situation. If she didn't encourage JP's physical intimacy with her, wasn't comfortable with it, or regretted how far they had gone after the fact in any way, she could have just sent him home. She didn't. That says it all.

If she had been equally intimate with Ben, I think they would have shown it, and then, they wouldn't need to do the hard sell to try to convince everybody that the two guys are running neck and neck for Ashley's affections. If she actually ends up choosing Ben, she will be the exception to the rule, in that women, unlike men, don't act more physically uninhibited with the man they are less interested in while putting their future husband on a "virginal" pedestal (see Brad with Emily). If JP is getting the physical edit, it's more evidence, not less, that he is F1. Bachelorettes choose opposite from Bachelors when it comes to the physical edit.

I am going to beg to differ.............Kiptyn got the physical edit, we know where that got him. Same with Charlie, and same with John Paul with Jen's season.

Seems to alternate every two years..........the F2 gets the heat. So if we look at it this way, Trista, Jen, Jill, now Ashley..........the F2 is getting the physical edit.

Coastal wrote:

ironcat wrote:

onlyme wrote:

When I look at this SC I have to wonder also if JP was this 'forward' with Ashley because she was giving him signs that he could. What I am trying to say is maybe he got the vibe from Ashley that he could be that intimate and she responded in kind.

Now for the million $ question, do we have anything like this with Ben and is it on the cutting room floor? For me, I'm guessing no. I see more of a very good friend vibe with Ben. I really like Ben. I would love to see him with Shawntel.

We can't forget that Ashley is the one with all the power in this situation. If she didn't encourage JP's physical intimacy with her, wasn't comfortable with it, or regretted how far they had gone after the fact in any way, she could have just sent him home. She didn't. That says it all.

If she had been equally intimate with Ben, I think they would have shown it, and then, they wouldn't need to do the hard sell to try to convince everybody that the two guys are running neck and neck for Ashley's affections. If she actually ends up choosing Ben, she will be the exception to the rule, in that women, unlike men, don't act more physically uninhibited with the man they are less interested in while putting their future husband on a "virginal" pedestal (see Brad with Emily). If JP is getting the physical edit, it's more evidence, not less, that he is F1. Bachelorettes choose opposite from Bachelors when it comes to the physical edit.

I am going to beg to differ.............Kiptyn got the physical edit, we know where that got him. Same with Charlie, and same with John Paul with Jen's season.

Seems to alternate every two years..........the F2 gets the heat. So if we look at it this way, Trista, Jen, Jill, now Ashley..........the F2 is getting the physical edit.

Coastal.. Let us agree to disagree.I guess we will have to wait for 1 more week to find out who is right or wrong about this season. I am 100% sure F1 is JP and you think it is Ben. May the best man for Ashley win

Coastal wrote:

ironcat wrote:

onlyme wrote:

When I look at this SC I have to wonder also if JP was this 'forward' with Ashley because she was giving him signs that he could. What I am trying to say is maybe he got the vibe from Ashley that he could be that intimate and she responded in kind.

Now for the million $ question, do we have anything like this with Ben and is it on the cutting room floor? For me, I'm guessing no. I see more of a very good friend vibe with Ben. I really like Ben. I would love to see him with Shawntel.

We can't forget that Ashley is the one with all the power in this situation. If she didn't encourage JP's physical intimacy with her, wasn't comfortable with it, or regretted how far they had gone after the fact in any way, she could have just sent him home. She didn't. That says it all.

If she had been equally intimate with Ben, I think they would have shown it, and then, they wouldn't need to do the hard sell to try to convince everybody that the two guys are running neck and neck for Ashley's affections. If she actually ends up choosing Ben, she will be the exception to the rule, in that women, unlike men, don't act more physically uninhibited with the man they are less interested in while putting their future husband on a "virginal" pedestal (see Brad with Emily). If JP is getting the physical edit, it's more evidence, not less, that he is F1. Bachelorettes choose opposite from Bachelors when it comes to the physical edit.

I am going to beg to differ.............Kiptyn got the physical edit, we know where that got him. Same with Charlie, and same with John Paul with Jen's season.

Seems to alternate every two years..........the F2 gets the heat. So if we look at it this way, Trista, Jen, Jill, now Ashley..........the F2 is getting the physical edit.

from what I remember, Kiptyn got "a" physical edit, but Ed got "the" physical edit. Jillian liked to kiss Kiptyn but she was always all over Ed.

LibbyBell wrote:

CarrieAlexander wrote:

northernviewer wrote:

clueless wrote:Interesting conversation about JP and Ashley and the degree of intimacy they seem to have.

When I watched one of the latest previews with the scene between Ashley and Ben when she is rubbing the lotion on his chest, Ben asked if that was ok (or something to that effect). That seems odd to me and it seems odd to me because in this point in time if they were intimate or physically/emotionally close I do not think he would have to ask, he would know if it's ok. JMO of course and just a scene I have speculated on. Thoughts?

I mentioned, I think yesterday, that after rewatching that preview it wasn't as "hot" as I first thought. she's sitting back on his thighs and when she kisses him, it's her signature peck and then she very carefully got off of him. She does have to play a part on all these dates, just like all the other leads do, but IMO she's much less convincing than others have been.

When he said that I wondered for a second if he was asking Ashley or if he was subconsciously asking if it's ok with JP that he's being rubbed down by Ash. Go ahead and throw stones, I can handle them just fine..

Hilarious CA!!!! I agree with all the posts that are stating that JP and Ashley's level of intimacy long surpassed that of Ashley and Ben. (No insult to Ben-- he's a great guy but, unfortunately, I think that Ashley fell for JP and not Ben) As I have posted many times, I think that Ashley most likely arranged "more time" with JP in between dates. I believe that I read somewhere that Ali said that she did this. One statementt that makes me feel this way is early on (I believe around episode 2 or 3) JP mentions that he looks forward to "our 1:1 time" and, at that time, we had only been shown a couple of "official" 1:1 times for them.

Is it a possibility that not all of Ben's and Ashley's connection is being seen by everyone?? There is a very strong emotional connection there and Ashley even said as much in epi 5. Then there is also a strong physical connection that is obviously there in epi 7/Taroko gorge.......and at the HTD. I am thinking that a lot of their connection is being missed by some...........a possibility??

northernviewer wrote:

Coastal wrote:

ironcat wrote:

onlyme wrote:

When I look at this SC I have to wonder also if JP was this 'forward' with Ashley because she was giving him signs that he could. What I am trying to say is maybe he got the vibe from Ashley that he could be that intimate and she responded in kind.

Now for the million $ question, do we have anything like this with Ben and is it on the cutting room floor? For me, I'm guessing no. I see more of a very good friend vibe with Ben. I really like Ben. I would love to see him with Shawntel.

We can't forget that Ashley is the one with all the power in this situation. If she didn't encourage JP's physical intimacy with her, wasn't comfortable with it, or regretted how far they had gone after the fact in any way, she could have just sent him home. She didn't. That says it all.

If she had been equally intimate with Ben, I think they would have shown it, and then, they wouldn't need to do the hard sell to try to convince everybody that the two guys are running neck and neck for Ashley's affections. If she actually ends up choosing Ben, she will be the exception to the rule, in that women, unlike men, don't act more physically uninhibited with the man they are less interested in while putting their future husband on a "virginal" pedestal (see Brad with Emily). If JP is getting the physical edit, it's more evidence, not less, that he is F1. Bachelorettes choose opposite from Bachelors when it comes to the physical edit.

I am going to beg to differ.............Kiptyn got the physical edit, we know where that got him. Same with Charlie, and same with John Paul with Jen's season.

Seems to alternate every two years..........the F2 gets the heat. So if we look at it this way, Trista, Jen, Jill, now Ashley..........the F2 is getting the physical edit.

from what I remember, Kiptyn got "a" physical edit, but Ed got "the" physical edit. Jillian liked to kiss Kiptyn but she was always all over Ed.

Nope, I liked Ed and Kiptyn worried me. Jillian was definitely all into him for a good part of the show. She was very comfortable and touchy feely with Kiptyn as well as the kissing.

This is probably neither here nor there and only JMO, but Kiptyn's so-called physical edit with Jillian just seemed awkward to me. I knew it was supposed to be a physical edit only because Jillian seemed to insist it was so perhaps it was very one-sided on her part. And yet, no matter what she seemed to imply about it, he never seemed more than a friend edit to me. I don't think he really was interested in her beyond that, I don't really believe that he believed he'd ever actually have to go through a proposal with her and I think her part in it was far more sound bytes than action.

I used to think that Kiptyn needed kissing lessons when watching him with Jill. After seeing him with Tenley I know that wasn't the least bit true. Kip and Jill kisses were NOT the stuff of any kind of physical chemistry, at least to me.

In any case, in retrospect, it seems clear to me at least that E.D. had the physical edit and Reid's was much more the emotional one. I think the biggest reason Reid was sent home at F3 was because Jill didn't want to hurt him as much and I think she knew very well that it wasn't going to hurt Kip nearly so much to go at F2. The irony, of course, is that Reid got suckered into a de facto F2 edit and a very painful twice rejection.

You can't give Ed the chemistry/physical edit when he wasn't there and a lot of the time was him either worried about having to leave or begging to come back. Even part of his FD was taken up with Jillian meeting his family and then the E.D. that evening. They clearly had chemistry but you really had to look for it a lot of the time.

albean99 wrote:You can't give Ed the chemistry/physical edit when he wasn't there and a lot of the time was him either worried about having to leave or begging to come back. Even part of his FD was taken up with Jillian meeting his family and then the E.D. that evening. They clearly had chemistry but you really had to look for it a lot of the time.

Trust me, I tried desperately NOT to look at their nasty chemistry! Thanks for the reminder! :vomit:

Coastal wrote:

ironcat wrote:

onlyme wrote:

When I look at this SC I have to wonder also if JP was this 'forward' with Ashley because she was giving him signs that he could. What I am trying to say is maybe he got the vibe from Ashley that he could be that intimate and she responded in kind.

Now for the million $ question, do we have anything like this with Ben and is it on the cutting room floor? For me, I'm guessing no. I see more of a very good friend vibe with Ben. I really like Ben. I would love to see him with Shawntel.

We can't forget that Ashley is the one with all the power in this situation. If she didn't encourage JP's physical intimacy with her, wasn't comfortable with it, or regretted how far they had gone after the fact in any way, she could have just sent him home. She didn't. That says it all.

If she had been equally intimate with Ben, I think they would have shown it, and then, they wouldn't need to do the hard sell to try to convince everybody that the two guys are running neck and neck for Ashley's affections. If she actually ends up choosing Ben, she will be the exception to the rule, in that women, unlike men, don't act more physically uninhibited with the man they are less interested in while putting their future husband on a "virginal" pedestal (see Brad with Emily). If JP is getting the physical edit, it's more evidence, not less, that he is F1. Bachelorettes choose opposite from Bachelors when it comes to the physical edit.

I am going to beg to differ.............Kiptyn got the physical edit, we know where that got him. Same with Charlie, and same with John Paul with Jen's season.

Seems to alternate every two years..........the F2 gets the heat. So if we look at it this way, Trista, Jen, Jill, now Ashley..........the F2 is getting the physical edit.

I would say that in Ali's season, Roberto also got the physical edit over Chris, but of course this is just my opinion

albean99 wrote:You can't give Ed the chemistry/physical edit when he wasn't there and a lot of the time was him either worried about having to leave or begging to come back. Even part of his FD was taken up with Jillian meeting his family and then the E.D. that evening. They clearly had chemistry but you really had to look for it a lot of the time.

I guess what I'm saying that Kip's so-called physical edit was impossible for me to swallow. Reid's edit was clearly more than any physical edit. And I have no other explanation for Jill's interest in Ed besides a visceral thinking NOT with her head but only gravitating toward her tall dark and I'm not gonna say it because I can't physical type This is my bias, I suppose, but I know that I am not alone in thinking it, and not at all clear in understanding what the edit was supposed to tell us, if not that