Episode 8 - 7/18 Hometown dates - Discussion - Spoilers

beader wrote:

Bhaka wrote:Since I am a JP fan, I must be the first to admit that I see his edit through rose-colored glasses. Having said that, the scene that most convinces me that he is F1 is the scene between Ashley and JP's mother, Eileen.

Ashley has already told us that she doesn't think she hides her feelings well. When Eileen asks if she's put Ashley "on the spot", Ashley responds, "You can put me on the spot as much as you want." Ashley's "role" didn't require her to be that open.

Then when Eileen tells Ashley she doesn't want to see her son hurt again, Ashley responds, "I am smitten by your son. We have something that is very special to me."

It's one thing for Ashley to hide her feelings from F4, F3, F2. As hard as that might be, they are adults who knew what they signed up for. But Ashley didn't have to respond so lovingly to Eileen. She could have said something like, "You're right, it's hard. But I just have to stay open and trust the process."

If I were Ashely, which obviously I am not, I couldn't have given such open answers to anyone but the mother of my F1.

Bhaka! ITA with you. If JP is not F1, I'll feel most upset for Mrs. Rosenbaum because of the things Ashley said to her. If I were the mom, I'd take those things as total assurance that my son would be chosen by Ashley--unless there was more that we weren't shown like--"Seriously, Mom R., you know they made me say those things, and you know we have several more weeks to film, I have four great guys right now, and things could go any of their ways." Otherwise, I'll say shame on Ashley if JP is not F1.

ETA: The problem is that we'll never know if more was said--on any of the dates! We only know what they show us.

Very true "only what they show". I cannot forget what Trista said about her HT date w/Ryan. She said they had such fun, so many laughs w/his family and they didn't show any of it. It looked boring compared to Charlie's HTD she said. It will not surprise me if Ben turns out to be F1 because JP has been so obvious. I'm afraid we are being set up once again. I like Ben but still rooting for JP.

When I look at this SC I have to wonder also if JP was this 'forward' with Ashley because she was giving him signs that he could. What I am trying to say is maybe he got the vibe from Ashley that he could be that intimate and she responded in kind.

Now for the million $ question, do we have anything like this with Ben and is it on the cutting room floor? For me, I'm guessing no. I see more of a very good friend vibe with Ben. I really like Ben. I would love to see him with Shawntel.

onlyme wrote:

When I look at this SC I have to wonder also if JP was this 'forward' with Ashley because she was giving him signs that he could. What I am trying to say is maybe he got the vibe from Ashley that he could be that intimate and she responded in kind.

Now for the million $ question, do we have anything like this with Ben and is it on the cutting room floor? For me, I'm guessing no. I see more of a very good friend vibe with Ben. I really like Ben. I would love to see him with Shawntel.

Did you see Ali's season? Remember her giving Chris what seemed like hundreds of kisses while he was carrying her in the water in Tahiti. All the kissing with JP makes me wonder. Given what we are shown yes, I agree, I think a friend vibe with Ben.

onlyme wrote:

When I look at this SC I have to wonder also if JP was this 'forward' with Ashley because she was giving him signs that he could. What I am trying to say is maybe he got the vibe from Ashley that he could be that intimate and she responded in kind.

Now for the million $ question, do we have anything like this with Ben and is it on the cutting room floor? For me, I'm guessing no. I see more of a very good friend vibe with Ben. I really like Ben. I would love to see him with Shawntel.

We can't forget that Ashley is the one with all the power in this situation. If she didn't encourage JP's physical intimacy with her, wasn't comfortable with it, or regretted how far they had gone after the fact in any way, she could have just sent him home. She didn't. That says it all.

If she had been equally intimate with Ben, I think they would have shown it, and then, they wouldn't need to do the hard sell to try to convince everybody that the two guys are running neck and neck for Ashley's affections. If she actually ends up choosing Ben, she will be the exception to the rule, in that women, unlike men, don't act more physically uninhibited with the man they are less interested in while putting their future husband on a "virginal" pedestal (see Brad with Emily). If JP is getting the physical edit, it's more evidence, not less, that he is F1. Bachelorettes choose opposite from Bachelors when it comes to the physical edit.

I don't see the gift issue as being determinative or significant regarding who is F1. As far as this physical edit idea, I just think that we have seen more of that and less of the emotional connection. If you watch JP and Ashley on his HTD, you can see a degree of familiarity that simply would not be there if there wasn't some deeper connection. They have a comfort level and an affection that goes beyond a mere physical connection.

At the skating rink, you could see the fun between them. We haven't had much of that and it was wonderful to finally get the chance to watch them this way. There is a bond between them that no edit can hide.

Patterns from prior seasons are interesting for discussion purposes, but one always has to keep in mind the fact that they can and have been broken. That's how they keep us off balance.

I do think HK sealed the deal for JP and Ashley. That's my gut feeling and I am sticking with it. However, it has never been about me being right. Whatever happens, I will not be one who will trash or disrespect either the F1 or F2. I have always felt that both JP and Ben are great guys who are appealing in their own special way. I only wish happiness for both of these fine young men. Whoever Ashley picks, it will be okay with me!

onlyme wrote:

When I look at this SC I have to wonder also if JP was this 'forward' with Ashley because she was giving him signs that he could. What I am trying to say is maybe he got the vibe from Ashley that he could be that intimate and she responded in kind.

Now for the million $ question, do we have anything like this with Ben and is it on the cutting room floor? For me, I'm guessing no. I see more of a very good friend vibe with Ben. I really like Ben. I would love to see him with Shawntel.

I don't think Chico is far from Ben's HT either.

onlyme wrote:

2observe wrote: Well imo, this just supports JP having a physical edit.

In my opinion the physical edit should be viewed differently for a male lead than a female lead. I get 'tricked' much more by a physical edit if it is FOR a female (i.e. Chantal). I believe when the lead is female, we can put more weight into the physical edit. I hope that makes sense.

I agree, and have mentioned this a few times this season and in seasons past. When girls commit to a guy physically, it's because she's emotionally attached first. Guys .... not so much :winkie: (Jilly is a bit of an exception once she got a few drinks in her)
So when we see Ashley draped all over JP, and how she's always touching him, and when she cradles his face with her hands...... that's an indication that he's her F1, not that she's just looking for a hot guy to cuddle to help pass the time during filming.

onlyme wrote:

When I look at this SC I have to wonder also if JP was this 'forward' with Ashley because she was giving him signs that he could. What I am trying to say is maybe he got the vibe from Ashley that he could be that intimate and she responded in kind.

Now for the million $ question, do we have anything like this with Ben and is it on the cutting room floor? For me, I'm guessing no. I see more of a very good friend vibe with Ben. I really like Ben. I would love to see him with Shawntel.

Notice that Ash was wrapping her legs or covering her legs in a blanket when ever she was having a one on one with most of the other guys and not JP. It was like the blanket was protection or a boundary the men knew not to cross and she didn't share her blanket. JP and she were in each other's personal space early on.

JP is also the only one shown that has seen her in her sweats and purple glasses. She fell asleep on his chest. When they talk her legs are draped over him. There is a comfort level between these 2 that cannot be hidden very easily.

ironcat wrote:

onlyme wrote:

When I look at this SC I have to wonder also if JP was this 'forward' with Ashley because she was giving him signs that he could. What I am trying to say is maybe he got the vibe from Ashley that he could be that intimate and she responded in kind.

Now for the million $ question, do we have anything like this with Ben and is it on the cutting room floor? For me, I'm guessing no. I see more of a very good friend vibe with Ben. I really like Ben. I would love to see him with Shawntel.

We can't forget that Ashley is the one with all the power in this situation. If she didn't encourage JP's physical intimacy with her, wasn't comfortable with it, or regretted how far they had gone after the fact in any way, she could have just sent him home. She didn't. That says it all.

If she had been equally intimate with Ben, I think they would have shown it, and then, they wouldn't need to do the hard sell to try to convince everybody that the two guys are running neck and neck for Ashley's affections. If she actually ends up choosing Ben, she will be the exception to the rule, in that women, unlike men, don't act more physically uninhibited with the man they are less interested in while putting their future husband on a "virginal" pedestal (see Brad with Emily). If JP is getting the physical edit, it's more evidence, not less, that he is F1. Bachelorettes choose opposite from Bachelors when it comes to the physical edit.

I agree. I've said before with Fleiss alternating male/female I can't say 'well last season so and so go the physical edit'. It will continue to flip flop to some extent. Yes, if Ben is F1, they have left a lot out in MY eyes or as you say Ashley were be the exception to the rule. JMO

Teenamarie wrote:

onlyme wrote:

When I look at this SC I have to wonder also if JP was this 'forward' with Ashley because she was giving him signs that he could. What I am trying to say is maybe he got the vibe from Ashley that he could be that intimate and she responded in kind.

Now for the million $ question, do we have anything like this with Ben and is it on the cutting room floor? For me, I'm guessing no. I see more of a very good friend vibe with Ben. I really like Ben. I would love to see him with Shawntel.

Did you see Ali's season? Remember her giving Chris what seemed like hundreds of kisses while he was carrying her in the water in Tahiti. All the kissing with JP makes me wonder. Given what we are shown yes, I agree, I think a friend vibe with Ben.

Yes I did see Ali's but I didn't watch too closely. Didn't think Chris L was ever going to be the ONE. I believed RS for awhile that she picked no one or Roberto. I need to go back and look at those kisses.

But on GL Ashley said she took her lead in the kissing etc. from the guys....????

Pattycake92 wrote:JPs mom sent some food with Ashley to take back to her hotel. I wonder how they kept JP from going to her hotel? Seems very tempting for them to spend some extra time together. Also, doesn't JP live in the city? I wish we could have seen his apartment.

I think they did spend time in NYC. I mentioned this right after the episode aired, but was shot down. While Ashley was on Ames' HTD, she said, "From NYC to this!" I though she had just flown in from JP's HTD and had mentioned NYC because it was fresh in her mind. IMO JP and Ashley spent some time in NYC later that evening of his HTD. People disagreed with me saying she meant it that Ames lived in NYC and there. (his HTD) If she brought leftovers back to her hotel...
Anyway I am not a Jp fan, nor Ben fan, nor Ashley fan. Merely a fan of the show, watching this season completely unbiased, I do care who the F1 is.