Episode 8 - 7/18 Hometown dates - Discussion - Spoilers

ironcat wrote:So do we really think that the producers, knowing at this point who the lead is going to pick, set the guys up in a specific order every season so that the sleuthers, right before the last 2 episodes, have the definitive clue to the ending? If they are going to give it away at this point every season, why do they work so hard to make sure the cat doesn't get out of the bag earlier? Or is this just a cool game they play with us, so that we'll know, while taking pains to throw everyone else off the track? Awesome.

Because not many will believe it. I say that the proof is in the pudding. Just look at Jill, Ali' & Ashley's F3 Toasts.

2observe wrote:

ironcat wrote:So do we really think that the producers, knowing at this point who the lead is going to pick, set the guys up in a specific order every season so that the sleuthers, right before the last 2 episodes, have the definitive clue to the ending? If they are going to give it away at this point every season, why do they work so hard to make sure the cat doesn't get out of the bag earlier? Or is this just a cool game they play with us, so that we'll know, while taking pains to throw everyone else off the track? Awesome.

Because not many will believe it. I say that the proof is in the pudding. Just look at Jill, Ali' & Ashley's F3 Toasts.

There was also a pattern of not showing the lead leave the F1 hometown date. But this season, they didn't show Ashley leave with Dino & Ames, and did show her leave with Ben & JP. And only Jill & Ali's toasts had F3 on the right. That doesn't really tell us anything...JMO.

2observe wrote:

ironcat wrote:So do we really think that the producers, knowing at this point who the lead is going to pick, set the guys up in a specific order every season so that the sleuthers, right before the last 2 episodes, have the definitive clue to the ending? If they are going to give it away at this point every season, why do they work so hard to make sure the cat doesn't get out of the bag earlier? Or is this just a cool game they play with us, so that we'll know, while taking pains to throw everyone else off the track? Awesome.

Because not many will believe it. I say that the proof is in the pudding. Just look at Jill, Ali' & Ashley's F3 Toasts.

Really, I don't think these patterns matter. I don't think TB have a set formula. Sometimes they go with what worked in the past and sometimes they create new rules and patterns. I understand it's a sleuthing board and we tend to over analyze things, but this season you can figure out who F1 is by just looking at the body language. Ashley and JP just have a connection that they cannot hide from anyone. Mamma Rosenbaum saw it in Ashley and JP's eyes and it's easy to see if you simply just observe and stop looking for patterns.... this is JMHO. :sweetheart:

chicagoowl wrote:

2observe wrote:

ironcat wrote:So do we really think that the producers, knowing at this point who the lead is going to pick, set the guys up in a specific order every season so that the sleuthers, right before the last 2 episodes, have the definitive clue to the ending? If they are going to give it away at this point every season, why do they work so hard to make sure the cat doesn't get out of the bag earlier? Or is this just a cool game they play with us, so that we'll know, while taking pains to throw everyone else off the track? Awesome.

Because not many will believe it. I say that the proof is in the pudding. Just look at Jill, Ali' & Ashley's F3 Toasts.

Really, I don't think these patterns matter. I don't think TB have a set formula. Sometimes they go with what worked in the past and sometimes they create new rules and patterns. I understand it's a sleuthing board and we tend to over analyze things, but this season you can figure out who F1 is by just looking at the body language. Ashley and JP just have a connection that they cannot hide from anyone. Mamma Rosenbaum saw it in Ashley and JP's eyes and it's easy to see if you simply just observe and stop looking for patterns.... this is JMHO. :sweetheart:

chicagoowl wrote:

2observe wrote:

ironcat wrote:So do we really think that the producers, knowing at this point who the lead is going to pick, set the guys up in a specific order every season so that the sleuthers, right before the last 2 episodes, have the definitive clue to the ending? If they are going to give it away at this point every season, why do they work so hard to make sure the cat doesn't get out of the bag earlier? Or is this just a cool game they play with us, so that we'll know, while taking pains to throw everyone else off the track? Awesome.

Because not many will believe it. I say that the proof is in the pudding. Just look at Jill, Ali' & Ashley's F3 Toasts.

Really, I don't think these patterns matter. I don't think TB have a set formula. Sometimes they go with what worked in the past and sometimes they create new rules and patterns. I understand it's a sleuthing board and we tend to over analyze things, but this season you can figure out who F1 is by just looking at the body language. Ashley and JP just have a connection that they cannot hide from anyone. Mamma Rosenbaum saw it in Ashley and JP's eyes and it's easy to see if you simply just observe and stop looking for patterns.... this is JMHO. :sweetheart:

2observe wrote:

ironcat wrote:So do we really think that the producers, knowing at this point who the lead is going to pick, set the guys up in a specific order every season so that the sleuthers, right before the last 2 episodes, have the definitive clue to the ending? If they are going to give it away at this point every season, why do they work so hard to make sure the cat doesn't get out of the bag earlier? Or is this just a cool game they play with us, so that we'll know, while taking pains to throw everyone else off the track? Awesome.

Because not many will believe it. I say that the proof is in the pudding. Just look at Jill, Ali' & Ashley's F3 Toasts.

Just curious, why do you think the producers do this? IOW, what would be their motivation for puposely giving out this extremely revealing and easy to interpret clue, that gives away the ending? They certainly don't have to, so why do you suppose they do it? I'd really love an answer from anybody who thinks the toast lineup is so significant and foolproof. Thanks!

albean99 wrote:I get what you're saying 2observe. In Ali's & Jillian's seasons they were facing the guys and their f1 guy was on the left, f2 in the middle, and f3 on the right. If you apply this pattern to Ashley it would mean Ben is f1, Constantine f2, and JP f3. Did Constantine leaving change that?

Did I get it right? Interesting idea.

You Got It!!!! ETARemember that we only saw Ashley bring gifts for Constantine and Ben's families; but, not Ames and JP's families. So, imo, Ames was F4, JP was F3, Constantine was F2 and Ben is F1. But since Constantine leaves on his own, JP became the new F2.

ironcat wrote:

2observe wrote:

ironcat wrote:So do we really think that the producers, knowing at this point who the lead is going to pick, set the guys up in a specific order every season so that the sleuthers, right before the last 2 episodes, have the definitive clue to the ending? If they are going to give it away at this point every season, why do they work so hard to make sure the cat doesn't get out of the bag earlier? Or is this just a cool game they play with us, so that we'll know, while taking pains to throw everyone else off the track? Awesome.

Because not many will believe it. I say that the proof is in the pudding. Just look at Jill, Ali' & Ashley's F3 Toasts.

Just curious, why do you think the producers do this? IOW, what would be their motivation for puposely giving out this extremely revealing and easy to interpret clue, that gives away the ending? They certainly don't have to, so why do you suppose they do it? I'd really love an answer from anybody who thinks the toast lineup is so significant and foolproof. Thanks!

Imo, it's just part of production. I really don't think that they think anyone would figure it out.

Oh gosh JP final 3 !

GrahamGal wrote:
Like I said we will have to agree to disagree on this. They are standing how they are standing. It just the camera that is different with Trista. If you move the camera angle around to give you the same view of the B'ette Ryan and JP are standing in the same position.

My point is not who F1 is, but rather it is not consistent. So a pattern is not there. You can't just use the last 2 seasons when looking for patterns. imo

Having a son who is getting his Masters in Statistics, I'd have to give a big ole Hell Yeah to this statement!!

I don't think the lineup during the toast has any significance. She hadn't picked at this point even if she had a good idea. Don't you think the guys would get suspicious if the producers yanked them out of order and lined them up for a pic? The only thing I buy into is that the person the lead wants to see as F1 gets the private island date and the best fantasy suite. LOL!

ironcat wrote:

2observe wrote:

ironcat wrote:So do we really think that the producers, knowing at this point who the lead is going to pick, set the guys up in a specific order every season so that the sleuthers, right before the last 2 episodes, have the definitive clue to the ending? If they are going to give it away at this point every season, why do they work so hard to make sure the cat doesn't get out of the bag earlier? Or is this just a cool game they play with us, so that we'll know, while taking pains to throw everyone else off the track? Awesome.

Because not many will believe it. I say that the proof is in the pudding. Just look at Jill, Ali' & Ashley's F3 Toasts.

Just curious, why do you think the producers do this? IOW, what would be their motivation for puposely giving out this extremely revealing and easy to interpret clue, that gives away the ending? They certainly don't have to, so why do you suppose they do it? I'd really love an answer from anybody who thinks the toast lineup is so significant and foolproof. Thanks!

Perhaps they want to introduce a bit of a warning that all is not as it seems. Put the doubt back in .... That way if you are a sleuther - you continue to sleuthe and still wonder a bit. Could not be a hint - or could be - but we should keep our eyes ever open !