Re: Episode 8 - 7/18 Hometown dates - Discussion - Spoilers

by bilolo Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:34 am

OMG i was a fan of Aliberto since the begining and i thought that they'd end together, i never liked Chris L but don't know why though

by sjcaligurl Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:44 am

cfck2222 wrote:
emusha wrote:
I'm getting confused -- why are people so sure that a bad edit during the show means a bad relationship? the overall track record of the show in general sucks already - MOST relationships don't work so why would the edit have anything to do with foreshadowing for the IRL relationship? In other words, there's not enough good outcome = good edit examples to make this correlation law from where I'm looking at it...
I guess I'm trying to understand where the bad edit = bad relationship correlation came up?

...

Some people will argue Ashley getting such a bad edit the 1st half of this season is a sign the producers not only don't believe in her as a good lead, but don't believe she's ready for a long lasting relationship.

Me, I see the fact that JP's insecurity/jealousy was something Ashley and JP addressed amicably and maturely on the show as the important factor in that edit. And I don't see Ashley as any less ready to settle down than I thought Ali was at the time.

If the drama with Ashley's sister is as bad as the previews imply then some people will see that as a big red flag for the lead and her F1 seeing as family disapproval is a huge stress on the relationship. The question for me is how bad will it really be, who will it be directed against, and will it be resolved on the show?

At the end of the day I think all seasons have had their drama, even the vaunted Aliberto season. So I agree with you there. The question is how you handle it. Roberto stood above it during his season. JP and Ashley seemed to work it out together during the season. It's how the couples handle stuff after the season that ends up mattering the most and the question is whether you believe behavior during the season contains clues to that.

Well, the key thing we've seen with the on camera relationship between JP and Ashley is their willingness to communicate with each other. Neither of them are really holding back (except for JP being too scared to say ILY). Had JP handled the Bentley news the way Blake and Mickey did, we'd be watching a different show. Had Ashley taken the 'you don't own me' attitude when JP confessed that he was having a hard time dealing with her dating the other guys, he would have been sent home instead of being given a rose on the date. So, there is an empathy there and a desire to work things out. Assuming they are together, the way they've subtly defended each other in the vlogs and blogs shows that they are still able to work things out with a united front. They have as good a chance of lasting as any other couple IRL and they've already faced some things and come through them during the show instead of after. Look at Brad and Emily. Among things they won't admit to, we are supposed to believe that the press played a big part in their demise when you know going in that the press is an ever present beast. They were in turmoil almost immediately after the show and by the ATFR, Brad wasn't even sure they were still engaged.

Ashley, in her current blog, already seems to be giving us a heads up as to why Constantine will be out. She says how important his Greek Orthodox faith is to him. Did he really go on the show thinking that he'd find someone who'd be Greek Orthodox or who would convert? (A woman at my job did but she's my age and that was a generation ago). I don't knock him if that is important to him but I think that's something you bring up sooner than later ... If Ashley is agnostic or not particularly into religion, I doubt that she wants to be enmeshed in that. So, if that's why he's leaving, I think it's best for both of them.

Ben seems to have needed this show for some kind of therapy. I'm glad that this experience has opened him up so much but he just seems so fragile still. I'm not sure if he should be making a life decision in the midst of this.

by LaureanT Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:48 am

emusha wrote:Thanks for explaining that in detail cfck222 I do see where it might look like clues and your points are very well taken
The challenge I have though is even with the venerated Alibearto connection -- there could be arguments made that they didn't get the best edit at all. I was one of the few that was on the Alibearto train from day 1 but there was a lot of conflict and negative qualities brought up about both during the season to a point where Roberto fans only posted in the roberto thread and eventually even started their own discussion space cos everyone was so Anti-Alibearto (again it's all arguable)

1. Roberto was rico suave - mentioned over and over, he's the hot guy "would he even come up to me IRL" - can he even be trusted?
2. Roberto was mystery man -- they barely showed anything about his 'real' personality keeping him totally unrelatable to the regular viewer - he was the uncommunicative hottie who ali is intensely attracted to on a very superficial level (I don't remember ONE real/deep conversation between them) vs. Chris L who was the personification of relatability/lovability/humor/jovial 'everyone loves him' guy
3. Roberto's dad and Roberto's perception about traditional roles of 'women' was brought into question to a point there was very intense character bashing about them -- based on his father expecting her to adhere to the man's dreams as well as talks about Ali cooking and what-not

I guess my point is -- looking back we may all look at it and it all looks like clouds and "rainbows" (pun intended for those who remember ) but while the season was going on - Roberto was not liked by many people and his character was put into question repeatedly (or completely hidden/vapid)

As for Ali - her edit wasn't pristine either -- her and frank's debacle put a huge doubt that she is not able to open up at all...especially after her breakdown.... and by making CL so appealing she was being pitted against him for not going for him/choosing him and being thrown under a bus for choosing the vapid superficial jock who's a player and doesn't even have a family background that would allow the lady to have her own dreams and not be at his beck and call... and we see how drastically differently THAT all turned out!

Great post! I was riding on the Aliberto train from day 1 with you too, emusha! :giggle: I am still riding and have no plans to get off at the next stop. :giggle:

by shoepie Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:49 am

I don't think Ashley is getting a bad edit at all. The Bentley situation was embarrassing for her but they had to show that.

When it all boils down production is going to show every bit of action, distress, drama and strife that is there for the taking. They edit to tell a story, of course, but they are not going to leave good footage behind for any reason!

by skitts Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:56 am

Did anyone notice the doom and gloom music played while JP was talking with his brother regarding heartbreaks?

Also...who exactly was the 'dark horse' last night...had to be Dino, right?

by Guest Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:03 am

Yes, and I noticed lots of guitar music during Ben's date.... not that it likely matters...

by sjcaligurl Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:25 am

If JP is F1, I hope they don't play that disco ball music at the end! LOL!

by cfck2222 Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:29 am

emusha wrote:I guess my point is -- looking back we may all look at it and it all looks like clouds and "rainbows" (pun intended for those who remember ) but while the season was going on - Roberto was not liked by many people and his character was put into question repeatedly (or completely hidden/vapid)

As for Ali - her edit wasn't pristine either -- her and frank's debacle put a huge doubt that she is not able to open up at all...especially after her breakdown.... and by making CL so appealing she was being pitted against him for not going for him/choosing him and being thrown under a bus for choosing the vapid superficial jock who's a player and doesn't even have a family background that would allow the lady to have her own dreams and not be at his beck and call... and we see how drastically differently THAT all turned out!

sjcaligurl wrote:Well, the key thing we've seen with the on camera relationship between JP and Ashley is their willingness to communicate with each other. Neither of them are really holding back (except for JP being too scared to say ILY). Had JP handled the Bentley news the way Blake and Mickey did, we'd be watching a different show. Had Ashley taken the 'you don't own me' attitude when JP confessed that he was having a hard time dealing with her dating the other guys, he would have been sent home instead of being given a rose on the date. So, there is an empathy there and a desire to work things out. Assuming they are together, the way they've subtly defended each other in the vlogs and blogs shows that they are still able to work things out with a united front. They have as good a chance of lasting as any other couple IRL and they've already faced some things and come through them during the show instead of after. Look at Brad and Emily. Among things they won't admit to, we are supposed to believe that the press played a big part in their demise when you know going in that the press is an ever present beast. They were in turmoil almost immediately after the show and by the ATFR, Brad wasn't even sure they were still engaged.

emusha and sjcaligurl, I'd have quoted both your whole posts but just stuck to these parts. When I was writing my post I think I talked myself into agreeing you despite my original feeling about the role of the edit giggling

I find myself in a really weird place about this season in that I see something healthy between Ashley and JP. How did THAT happen on THIS show and when have they EVER showed us something like that? scratch

I think what they've showed us goes beyond the original idea I had about the role of the edit because it's not just flaws or obstacles that are left hanging there. They're actually being presented as part of a progressing story but I feel like the editors have never given us that kind of storyline so it's strange!

ITA with emusha that we only ever saw Aliberto cooing over how cute the other person was, their conversations were totally vapid and gave us no idea of how they'd forged a deeper emotional connection. I don't think you can say that about this season because like sjcaligurl says Ashley and JP have been shown dealing with things they'd have to deal with after the show anyway if he's F1. I also agree not even the Aliberto season got a pristine edit and that if Aliberto hadn't lasted we'd be pointing to things like the Frank situation and Ali's insecurities as hints of what was to come.

The show is still the show, odds are not favorable, and IA that the most you can say is that if JP is Ashley's F1 then these 2 have as good a chance of making it in RL as any other couple. We'll be able to point to things in hindsight depending on how things go. All I'm trying to say is I don't agree with the doom projections based on the edit because I don't think this season fits their idea of a doom edit.

by bilolo Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:34 am

so guys when we'll know for sure who the final one is (don't tell me august first plz) ? after the taping of the ATFR, we will know ?

by shoepie Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:36 am

bilolo wrote:so guys when we'll know for sure who the final one is (don't tell me august first plz) ? after the taping of the ATFR, we will know ?

We never know, for sure, until the finale. The very last episode.

by bilolo Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:39 am

shoepie wrote:
bilolo wrote:so guys when we'll know for sure who the final one is (don't tell me august first plz) ? after the taping of the ATFR, we will know ?

We never know, for sure, until the finale. The very last episode.

OH NO ! i'd like to know before the final giggling

even after the taping of ATFR, we will not get some spoilers ?

by anders Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:42 am

we'll get spoilers.

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