Episode 8 - 7/18 Hometown dates - Discussion - Spoilers

anders wrote:

noobsleuth wrote:

anders wrote:

sjcaligurl wrote:

clueless wrote:I have a question that most on this site probably already know the answer to, but is there a signifcance to the order in which the roses are handed out...the ceremony following hometown dates in particular?

Producer driven for drama. At this point, it doesn't really matter much. Only one group rose ceremony left though I guess Constantine won't be there.

Actually bloomers consulted her spreadsheet and noticed that the only 'Ette who didn't give her first rose to her F1 at the HTD RC was Jen - she gave it to JP, Jerry got the second rose. Not that it means 100% that Ben is F1, but there is a pattern there.

I guess but

How do Deanna and Jillian fit into this?

what do you mean?? Deanna and Jill both gave their first rose at the HTD RC to their F1s.

Ed wasn't there and I couldn't remember if Deanna gave it to Jesse since Graham left.

Rosepetal wrote:

anders wrote:

noobsleuth wrote:

anders wrote:

sjcaligurl wrote:

clueless wrote:I have a question that most on this site probably already know the answer to, but is there a signifcance to the order in which the roses are handed out...the ceremony following hometown dates in particular?

Producer driven for drama. At this point, it doesn't really matter much. Only one group rose ceremony left though I guess Constantine won't be there.

Actually bloomers consulted her spreadsheet and noticed that the only 'Ette who didn't give her first rose to her F1 at the HTD RC was Jen - she gave it to JP, Jerry got the second rose. Not that it means 100% that Ben is F1, but there is a pattern there.

I guess but

How do Deanna and Jillian fit into this?

what do you mean?? Deanna and Jill both gave their first rose at the HTD RC to their F1s.

Anders you forgot.....Ed didn't have a HTD and wasn't at that RC. We didn't see him until Spain.

correction then F4 RC. Just habit to call the F4 RC the HTD RC.

[quote="shoepie"]

Nativenewyorker wrote:

bluwavz wrote:

shoepie wrote:I did not get attached to any outcome this season, which is a first for me.

The formula is is tight and secure. JP is the victor and the previews are rigged to show trouble in paradise. pffffffffffft. Ben's hometown date had the vibe of a wake!

Constantine emerged as my favorite man last night and my hope for the next Bachelor. However, you would have to marry the entire family and always live in Atlanta. There is no room for an independant life with a possibility to relocate or explore other possibilities. That is not so good. So Ryan it shall be.

My crystal ball shows a proposal and a relationship that will not make the long haul.

I have been bored this season but I am looking forward to Ashley and her sister's thunder! Whoo Hoo, we finally get some action. Very cool.

I believe that Ashley's sister tweeted after tonight's episode and said that it got much worse after Ashley's beyotch comment to her. Whether we actually get to see it is another matter.

Fleiss is not known for avoiding drama, so let's hope we see all of it! I would be a delicious end to a lack luster season.

I want to talk about that horrible pizza for a minute. Fresh tomatoes on top of tomato sauce, Ashley? Really? Deep dish pizza, who eats that anymore?! It was over cooked/burned when served to that "customer," as well. The salad was so uninspired I have no words. My idea of hell would be eating greek salad complete with pepperonchini dripping its hot vinegar liquid into my mouth and Greek pizza one more time in my life. Cooking is my creative hobby and I just hate to see poorly executed food like this. There is no excuse.

Please give us your recipe for thin pizza that we can make at home--or PM it to me!

anders wrote:

Rosepetal wrote:

anders wrote:

noobsleuth wrote:

anders wrote:

sjcaligurl wrote:

clueless wrote:I have a question that most on this site probably already know the answer to, but is there a signifcance to the order in which the roses are handed out...the ceremony following hometown dates in particular?

Producer driven for drama. At this point, it doesn't really matter much. Only one group rose ceremony left though I guess Constantine won't be there.

Actually bloomers consulted her spreadsheet and noticed that the only 'Ette who didn't give her first rose to her F1 at the HTD RC was Jen - she gave it to JP, Jerry got the second rose. Not that it means 100% that Ben is F1, but there is a pattern there.

I guess but

How do Deanna and Jillian fit into this?

what do you mean?? Deanna and Jill both gave their first rose at the HTD RC to their F1s.

Anders you forgot.....Ed didn't have a HTD and wasn't at that RC. We didn't see him until Spain.

correction then F4 RC. Just habit to call the F4 RC the HTD RC.

Gotcha that makes sense now. :awesome:

noobsleuth wrote:

anders wrote:

noobsleuth wrote:

anders wrote:

sjcaligurl wrote:

clueless wrote:I have a question that most on this site probably already know the answer to, but is there a signifcance to the order in which the roses are handed out...the ceremony following hometown dates in particular?

Producer driven for drama. At this point, it doesn't really matter much. Only one group rose ceremony left though I guess Constantine won't be there.

Actually bloomers consulted her spreadsheet and noticed that the only 'Ette who didn't give her first rose to her F1 at the HTD RC was Jen - she gave it to JP, Jerry got the second rose. Not that it means 100% that Ben is F1, but there is a pattern there.

I guess but

How do Deanna and Jillian fit into this?

what do you mean?? Deanna and Jill both gave their first rose at the HTD RC to their F1s.

Ed wasn't there and I couldn't remember if Deanna gave it to Jesse since Graham left.

DeAnna gave the first rose to Jesse, then Jeremy, the Jason and she walked Graham out. Jason was originally supposed to be F4 but she sent Graham home instead.

cfck2222 wrote:

anders wrote:going by the history of this show, the odds are against JP and Ash lasting. It's not just the edit of the show, it's the nature of this show.

I definitely agree with that.

In my opinion, the overall Ashley/JP storyline this season seems to have been overcoming obstacles. Why did they pick that? Because they see tons of obstacles for Ashley/JP in real life or because the only storyline they've got for Ashley/JP is how they deal with obstacles (because their connection is so obvious). I sure don't know. Of course that assumes JP is F1 but I'm having a hard time not believing he is at this point. I just don't see any other relationship that's anywhere near the level of theirs on the show. I just feel like this is playing out like a rom com where they're storyboarding in all these obstacles but there's going to be a happy ending (without knowing if it's a happy ever after).

I've always said I'll wait not for the FRC but ATFR. Right now my gut is telling me that if JP is F1 then he & Ashley are basically on the same page now about the show messing with your mind so they've almost started over after the show, they're tuning everything else out and focusing on each other and so far so good. It's just a vibe I get from Ashley's interviews and JP's vlog. But I have no evidence and this is just an opinion so I don't expect anybody to agree. Even if I'm right it doesn't mean this'll last forever and I know that.

I'm getting confused -- why are people so sure that a bad edit during the show means a bad relationship? the overall track record of the show in general sucks already - MOST relationships don't work so why would the edit have anything to do with foreshadowing for the IRL relationship? In other words, there's not enough good outcome = good edit examples to make this correlation law from where I'm looking at it...
I guess I'm trying to understand where the bad edit = bad relationship correlation came up?

emusha wrote:

cfck2222 wrote:

anders wrote:going by the history of this show, the odds are against JP and Ash lasting. It's not just the edit of the show, it's the nature of this show.

I definitely agree with that.

In my opinion, the overall Ashley/JP storyline this season seems to have been overcoming obstacles. Why did they pick that? Because they see tons of obstacles for Ashley/JP in real life or because the only storyline they've got for Ashley/JP is how they deal with obstacles (because their connection is so obvious). I sure don't know. Of course that assumes JP is F1 but I'm having a hard time not believing he is at this point. I just don't see any other relationship that's anywhere near the level of theirs on the show. I just feel like this is playing out like a rom com where they're storyboarding in all these obstacles but there's going to be a happy ending (without knowing if it's a happy ever after).

I've always said I'll wait not for the FRC but ATFR. Right now my gut is telling me that if JP is F1 then he & Ashley are basically on the same page now about the show messing with your mind so they've almost started over after the show, they're tuning everything else out and focusing on each other and so far so good. It's just a vibe I get from Ashley's interviews and JP's vlog. But I have no evidence and this is just an opinion so I don't expect anybody to agree. Even if I'm right it doesn't mean this'll last forever and I know that.

I'm getting confused -- why are people so sure that a bad edit during the show means a bad relationship? the overall track record of the show in general sucks already - MOST relationships don't work so why would the edit have anything to do with foreshadowing for the IRL relationship? In other words, there's not enough good outcome = good edit examples to make this correlation law from where I'm looking at it...
I guess I'm trying to understand where the bad edit = bad relationship correlation came up?

Seriously! Not a single bachelor in 15 seasons has married his F1. Even the ones that lasted over a year were very troubled. Charlie had a drinking problem and that caused major issues. Mary and Byron had multiple issues over their years together and never made it. I would have rather had both of those couples break up early on as it seems years were wasted trying to salvage toxic relationships.

Nothing in these edits can predict the future unless it means that the people who look like they are in love when the show ends, won't work ... but then two that appear to have worked looked in love so it does work?

I think that The Bachelorette seems to work better. Even CH says that the women take it far more seriously than the men. I don't even enjoy watching The Bachelor anymore because they keep picking guys who aren't believable as really seeking a mate. Jason was really looking but he let them manipulate him into compromising his principles and his season ended up being a mess.

emusha wrote:
I'm getting confused -- why are people so sure that a bad edit during the show means a bad relationship? the overall track record of the show in general sucks already - MOST relationships don't work so why would the edit have anything to do with foreshadowing for the IRL relationship? In other words, there's not enough good outcome = good edit examples to make this correlation law from where I'm looking at it...
I guess I'm trying to understand where the bad edit = bad relationship correlation came up?

That's a good question because I'm one of the people who posted early this season that I thought the edit would hold clues about the couple's post-FRC status. The reason I said that was I thought the J/Ed ED moment was an indication of TPTB's complete lack of respect for that relationship and because Ali/Roberto got good edits when together (Ali alone had her low moments though and Jillian's edit got worse as the season went on IMO). I didn't watch Jake's or Brad's seasons (only saw Brad's ATFR) but the impression I get from people is that his chemistry with F2 got a major showcase compared with unresolved awkwardness with his F1 which was reflected by what it turns out was a really unstable, volatile relationship. But I don't know how I would've seen that edit.

I think Bloomers will tell you that the show's psychologists can profile the lead and the main contestants really well and develop an edit around that. I don't know if the show's psychologists are doing the edit though?

Then there's the basic logic asking why they would give their lead and F1 bad edits if they liked them. But I don't think we can even agree that Ashley/JP are getting bad edits! I do think Ashley got a bad edit for the 1st half of this season but I always thought that was setting up a redemption edit which IMO has already started. I didn't think JP got that bad an edit.

So some people will argue JP getting the insecurity/jealousy/competitive edit is a huge red flag for something that may be affecting him now while he's watching the show and/or something that will be a problem for Ashley/JP's relationship if he's F1.

Some people will argue Ashley getting such a bad edit the 1st half of this season is a sign the producers not only don't believe in her as a good lead, but don't believe she's ready for a long lasting relationship.

Me, I see the fact that JP's insecurity/jealousy was something Ashley and JP addressed amicably and maturely on the show as the important factor in that edit. And I don't see Ashley as any less ready to settle down than I thought Ali was at the time.

If the drama with Ashley's sister is as bad as the previews imply then some people will see that as a big red flag for the lead and her F1 seeing as family disapproval is a huge stress on the relationship. The question for me is how bad will it really be, who will it be directed against, and will it be resolved on the show?

At the end of the day I think all seasons have had their drama, even the vaunted Aliberto season. So I agree with you there. The question is how you handle it. Roberto stood above it during his season. JP and Ashley seemed to work it out together during the season. It's how the couples handle stuff after the season that ends up mattering the most and the question is whether you believe behavior during the season contains clues to that.

I think it's safe for MF to assume that the pairs aren't going to last long term, so throwing out less than stellar edits is just par for the course. But I really don't recall any other lead/F1 ever being thrown under the bus quite as badly as JP/Ash. As blunt and rude as Deanna came off, the worst they did with his edit were a few odd comments about kicking CH in the throat and a couple of questionable comments about the guys.

For me the only Rose that matters is who Ashley gives the last one to .
And i'm looking forward to it being

" Jordan Paul " :cc1:

Thanks for explaining that in detail cfck222 I do see where it might look like clues and your points are very well taken
The challenge I have though is even with the venerated Alibearto connection -- there could be arguments made that they didn't get the best edit at all. I was one of the few that was on the Alibearto train from day 1 but there was a lot of conflict and negative qualities brought up about both during the season to a point where Roberto fans only posted in the roberto thread and eventually even started their own discussion space cos everyone was so Anti-Alibearto (again it's all arguable)

1. Roberto was rico suave - mentioned over and over, he's the hot guy "would he even come up to me IRL" - can he even be trusted?
2. Roberto was mystery man -- they barely showed anything about his 'real' personality keeping him totally unrelatable to the regular viewer - he was the uncommunicative hottie who ali is intensely attracted to on a very superficial level (I don't remember ONE real/deep conversation between them) vs. Chris L who was the personification of relatability/lovability/humor/jovial 'everyone loves him' guy
3. Roberto's dad and Roberto's perception about traditional roles of 'women' was brought into question to a point there was very intense character bashing about them -- based on his father expecting her to adhere to the man's dreams as well as talks about Ali cooking and what-not

I guess my point is -- looking back we may all look at it and it all looks like clouds and "rainbows" (pun intended for those who remember ) but while the season was going on - Roberto was not liked by many people and his character was put into question repeatedly (or completely hidden/vapid)

As for Ali - her edit wasn't pristine either -- her and frank's debacle put a huge doubt that she is not able to open up at all...especially after her breakdown.... and by making CL so appealing she was being pitted against him for not going for him/choosing him and being thrown under a bus for choosing the vapid superficial jock who's a player and doesn't even have a family background that would allow the lady to have her own dreams and not be at his beck and call... and we see how drastically differently THAT all turned out!

[quote="beader"]

shoepie wrote:

Nativenewyorker wrote:

bluwavz wrote:

shoepie wrote:I did not get attached to any outcome this season, which is a first for me.

The formula is is tight and secure. JP is the victor and the previews are rigged to show trouble in paradise. pffffffffffft. Ben's hometown date had the vibe of a wake!

Constantine emerged as my favorite man last night and my hope for the next Bachelor. However, you would have to marry the entire family and always live in Atlanta. There is no room for an independant life with a possibility to relocate or explore other possibilities. That is not so good. So Ryan it shall be.

My crystal ball shows a proposal and a relationship that will not make the long haul.

I have been bored this season but I am looking forward to Ashley and her sister's thunder! Whoo Hoo, we finally get some action. Very cool.

I believe that Ashley's sister tweeted after tonight's episode and said that it got much worse after Ashley's beyotch comment to her. Whether we actually get to see it is another matter.

Fleiss is not known for avoiding drama, so let's hope we see all of it! I would be a delicious end to a lack luster season.

I want to talk about that horrible pizza for a minute. Fresh tomatoes on top of tomato sauce, Ashley? Really? Deep dish pizza, who eats that anymore?! It was over cooked/burned when served to that "customer," as well. The salad was so uninspired I have no words. My idea of hell would be eating greek salad complete with pepperonchini dripping its hot vinegar liquid into my mouth and Greek pizza one more time in my life. Cooking is my creative hobby and I just hate to see poorly executed food like this. There is no excuse.

Please give us your recipe for thin pizza that we can make at home--or PM it to me!

I make the dough from scratch and stretch it very thin. The toppings vary. I rarely use tomato sauce. Basil pesto, aritchoke pesto or truffle oil usually bed the ingredients. I get fancy. :awesome: