Re: Episode 7 - 7/11 - Discussion - Spoilers

by mnmhughes Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:05 pm

How do I get off this merry-go-round?

Round and round and round and round and round and round .....

I think I'm going to go stupid

if I have to hear about this anymore! hehehe

Carry on!

by Guest Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:08 pm

Someone made mention of a possible "scenario" where Ashley simply gets annoyed with JP. Which in turn would cause her to push him away to a degree.

I think it was albean, however, I'm not certain. Haven't been on so I just read and read for what seemed like hours before I could catch up. And I wanted to read the whole thing before I mentioned this in case someone else said what I was thinking.

I can actually buy something like this happening. Because Ashley is kind of all over the place emotionally. BUT, once she gets annoyed with someone, she just gets annoyed.

Remember with Mickey, she was all sympathetic until he said the wrong thing, then she was like if you want go, take the initiative and just go. She was done, even waving at him to hurry up and get in the boat.

Ben C. was another good example, she just came back and said she was ending the 2:1 portion, time to hop on the boat and send him down river. She more or less done William the same way. "I'm a 30 year old kid", well, "I want a man". See ya!!

And Bentley, after her asking if he just wanted a vacay.....well, wasn't till too long and she was up and out of there....and we all remember the big F U, I'm done!.

So, hypothetically speaking, if JP pushes her too much, which could happen, then I can see her just deciding in a split second......all right, here you go!! Quite possible scenario in my mind.

And before anyone comes back at me, I'm not saying I support any of these scenarios that have been brought up. I am just saying....I could actually see this one happening.

by CHO Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:10 pm

Ironcat: I am not referring to posters on this board. We are a very small (sorry, guys) percentage of total viewers, the majority of whom are unspoiled. The interest in JP, and his standing as the favorite, is widespread and overwhelming; I'm sorry if those who don't care for him or have another favorite refuse to acknowledge this, but it's fact, not opinion. The number of followers on his fanpage is more than 10 times what Ben's is, and almost as many as Ashley has. Yes, there were early spoilers out in the media, but anyone who thinks that is the only reason the overall viewing audience are JP fans is kidding themselves. He is extremely appealing, and has been presented as such through the edit, to a majority of viewers, even if you personally don't see it. I myself never got the Chris L love, he just didn't appeal that much to me, but I didn't try to deny that he was the overwhelming fan favorite, and the same with Emily.

Not sure what "other issue" you are referring to..
ironcat

This is why Fleiss is so good at what he does .... He is an expert ! We may not like how he runs these shows - but he does sway and confuse many !

I personally don't see JP's appeal for the reasons I mentionned above but I am trying to remain objective in this process - and no matter what his appeal - or the way Ashley is around him - I personally see things that don't add up.

The other issue I was referring to was the fact that JP has had two evening only dates with Ashley. I feel there is something wrong there. It doesn't make sense to me. I know they could have long serious talks lasting well into the evening but ... she fell asleep on the first date and at least for some of the ride up in the cable car - there was little if any talking. I know some will say she is so comfortable with JP - she doesn't have to talk. But they hardly know each other - wouldn't you want to find out as much about the person - shared thoughts, feelings etc - as you could ?

I am not expecting people to agree with me - I am just throwing out what is on my mind. And I am not trying to argue with the JP followers - we all see things from different perspectives - it would be boring if we all agreed !

by bilolo Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:11 pm

i agree with you Ironcat, great post as always bowdown

by albean99 Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:26 pm

CHO wrote:Ironcat: I am not referring to posters on this board. We are a very small (sorry, guys) percentage of total viewers, the majority of whom are unspoiled. The interest in JP, and his standing as the favorite, is widespread and overwhelming; I'm sorry if those who don't care for him or have another favorite refuse to acknowledge this, but it's fact, not opinion. The number of followers on his fanpage is more than 10 times what Ben's is, and almost as many as Ashley has. Yes, there were early spoilers out in the media, but anyone who thinks that is the only reason the overall viewing audience are JP fans is kidding themselves. He is extremely appealing, and has been presented as such through the edit, to a majority of viewers, even if you personally don't see it. I myself never got the Chris L love, he just didn't appeal that much to me, but I didn't try to deny that he was the overwhelming fan favorite, and the same with Emily.

Not sure what "other issue" you are referring to..
ironcat

This is why Fleiss is so good at what he does .... He is an expert ! We may not like how he runs these shows - but he does sway and confuse many !

I personally don't see JP's appeal for the reasons I mentionned above but I am trying to remain objective in this process - and no matter what his appeal - or the way Ashley is around him - I personally see things that don't add up.

The other issue I was referring to was the fact that JP has had two evening only dates with Ashley. I feel there is something wrong there. It doesn't make sense to me. I know they could have long serious talks lasting well into the evening but ... she fell asleep on the first date and at least for some of the ride up in the cable car - there was little if any talking. I know some will say she is so comfortable with JP - she doesn't have to talk. But they hardly know each other - wouldn't you want to find out as much about the person - shared thoughts, feelings etc - as you could ?

I am not expecting people to agree with me - I am just throwing out what is on my mind. And I am not trying to argue with the JP followers - we all see things from different perspectives - it would be boring if we all agreed !

I think you made some very good points, Cho. I still find JP getting just evening dates to be strange. I don't recall that ever happening before to someone in the f2. I know this is more about producing a show and not about appeasing Ashley but they sure weren't doing her any favors if he really is her f1. If they wanted the wedding theme with him you'd think they'd have given him William's date.

I understand that JP is the viewer favorite and if the show ended today with Ashley picking Ben, I'm sure people would be saying "huh?" but it hasn't and there's plenty of time yet to sway viewers towards or away from someone.

by philphan Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:31 pm

sweetpea wrote:Am I seriously the only one who didn't see the "flaw" as all that bad? He's not a crazy tattoo-your-arm defend-your-heart (or whatever that stupid line was) character!! He's an obviously competitive guy who suddenly discovers he actually has feelings for this girl and doesn't like to see her with other guys. He didn't yell and scream, he didn't take it out on her, he was moody and didn't talk. *gasp* He walked out of the room *gasp* He talked about how he was feeling with HER instead of bitching behind her back *GASP* And he acknowledged his own shortcomings *gasp*

What is so off putting about this? I am stumped, seriously.

I get that they are trying to introduce doubt into his story line, and I've watched the show long enough to get how they edit things (the shot of him leaving was from his own room if I remember correctly, not the room they were all in).

The funny thing about insecurity and jealousy, is most of us feel that way at some point or another. The trick is how we deal with it. I honestly think he dealt with it pretty well. Not perfect, but not terrible either. I'm honestly at a loss to explain why this is such a huge topic of conversation!!

AMEN!! :Nod:

by ironcat Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:34 pm

CHO wrote:Ironcat: I am not referring to posters on this board. We are a very small (sorry, guys) percentage of total viewers, the majority of whom are unspoiled. The interest in JP, and his standing as the favorite, is widespread and overwhelming; I'm sorry if those who don't care for him or have another favorite refuse to acknowledge this, but it's fact, not opinion. The number of followers on his fanpage is more than 10 times what Ben's is, and almost as many as Ashley has. Yes, there were early spoilers out in the media, but anyone who thinks that is the only reason the overall viewing audience are JP fans is kidding themselves. He is extremely appealing, and has been presented as such through the edit, to a majority of viewers, even if you personally don't see it. I myself never got the Chris L love, he just didn't appeal that much to me, but I didn't try to deny that he was the overwhelming fan favorite, and the same with Emily.

Not sure what "other issue" you are referring to..
ironcat

This is why Fleiss is so good at what he does .... He is an expert ! We may not like how he runs these shows - but he does sway and confuse many !

I personally don't see JP's appeal for the reasons I mentionned above but I am trying to remain objective in this process - and no matter what his appeal - or the way Ashley is around him - I personally see things that don't add up.

The other issue I was referring to was the fact that JP has had two evening only dates with Ashley. I feel there is something wrong there. It doesn't make sense to me. I know they could have long serious talks lasting well into the evening but ... she fell asleep on the first date and at least for some of the ride up in the cable car - there was little if any talking. I know some will say she is so comfortable with JP - she doesn't have to talk. But they hardly know each other - wouldn't you want to find out as much about the person - shared thoughts, feelings etc - as you could ?

I am not expecting people to agree with me - I am just throwing out what is on my mind. And I am not trying to argue with the JP followers - we all see things from different perspectives - it would be boring if we all agreed !

Swaying and confusing is one thing, but telling a story from a totally irrational point of view that will only anger/disgust/bore most viewers or leave them crying foul at the end, and without anybody, even the loser, to root for and sympathize with, is stupid storytelling. Fleiss had other options yet chose to go with this one? Still doesn't make sense to me.

Regarding the solo dates, hasn't it long been confirmed that the producers arrange who goes on which dates? Ashley apparently was interested in a date with JP from the beginning, but they chose to make him and Mickey (who she may also have been interested in) flip for it. He lost, but got the next available date ( the one with Ben C was set up because he said he liked to dance; wouldn't have been appropriate for JP). Unfortunately, it was cut short because of the Bentley situation. Maybe it was even supposed to start earlier in the day, but Ashley needed the time to "recover". The second date he got I believe was originally supposed to go to Ryan, but after the confrontation with Bentley, Ash requested JP to get it because she needed to tell him ASAP about the situation, and a solo date was the best way to do this (Lucas' was already too late to change). Or if not this, Ash wanted to make up for the first "bad" date with JP by giving him another one soon, knowing he was impatient. Either way, it's kind of ridiculous to think the producers specifically assigned him that date (before any of the other guys had second dates and before some even had firsts) solely because it was shorter in duration, since Ashley wasn't all that interested in him. Why give him a second date at all then? If anything, Ben got the long, overnight date because the producers wanted to give him extra time to try to catch up with JP, who at that point had pulled ahead, and they needed at least a 2 horse race. Certainly they weren't going to get that from Dino, Ryan or Ames, who were their only other options at the time.

eta Further proof the producers choose who gets the dates is Bentley never got one, although I'm sure Ashley wanted him on a solo date. In that sense, I guess they were "protecting" her from him.

by Guest Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:41 pm

Okay, I have a question: I have spent the majority of the past couple of hours reading and "trying" to catch up. You guys have been on a roll today. LOL

Anyway, this is probably best in the V.O. forum, but for the life of me, I can't find the darn thing unless it sends me a post notice.

I am wondering something. The part in the FRC preview, where she is on the couch and upset. I'm not going to quote, because I don't know the exact words. She says something to the effect of, I thought it would turn out differently. What I am wondering is, has anyone of you guys that has been sleuthing forever noticed that this was pretty much the same thing that was said when Brad let her go during Brad's season.

Something in one of the posts I read had me remembering she said this in the preview, then when I got to thinking about it, I remember it being said in Brad's season.

Since you guys are good at this, I was wondering if ya'll thought this might mean something. I've noticed that some of you can catch clues, especially JBF, and then have them tie in to the whole story.

I'm not wondering this from a JP/Ben perspective. I am honestly curious if someone thinks this might tie into some kind of clue or theme to the show. Thank you.

by JBF Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:56 pm

happyntexas wrote:Okay, I have a question: I have spent the majority of the past couple of hours reading and "trying" to catch up. You guys have been on a roll today. LOL

Anyway, this is probably best in the V.O. forum, but for the life of me, I can't find the darn thing unless it sends me a post notice.

I am wondering something. The part in the FRC preview, where she is on the couch and upset. I'm not going to quote, because I don't know the exact words. She says something to the effect of, I thought it would turn out differently. What I am wondering is, has anyone of you guys that has been sleuthing forever noticed that this was pretty much the same thing that was said when Brad let her go during Brad's season.

Something in one of the posts I read had me remembering she said this in the preview, then when I got to thinking about it, I remember it being said in Brad's season.

Since you guys are good at this, I was wondering if ya'll thought this might mean something. I've noticed that some of you can catch clues, especially JBF, and then have them tie in to the whole story.

I'm not wondering this from a JP/Ben perspective. I am honestly curious if someone thinks this might tie into some kind of clue or theme to the show. Thank you.

I know which quotes and outfit you mean... Equally curious. If you haven't, bring it up over in VO & PI...

by Guest Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:02 pm

CHO wrote:

And then the other issue - you are planning on being engaged soon - and you are not spending time with that person.... does not make sense to me.

If we consider this context, the entire premise of the show doesn't make sense.

I look at the entire thing as a fantasy. This is not real life. In real life, if someone gets engaged after spending what amounts to one day with another person, we're all scratching our heads and thinking they are crazy. On the show, that's the entire point. It's not real, no matter how much we'd all like it to be. Yes, the odd couple has managed to make this relationship last past the bubble, but that's honestly an anomaly and not something that can be expected to happen. So for me, talking about who she will marry is kind of like fantasy-talk, it's fun to discuss but I don't take any of it seriously.

by Guest Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:11 pm

sweetpea wrote:
CHO wrote:

And then the other issue - you are planning on being engaged soon - and you are not spending time with that person.... does not make sense to me.

If we consider this context, the entire premise of the show doesn't make sense.

I look at the entire thing as a fantasy. This is not real life. In real life, if someone gets engaged after spending what amounts to one day with another person, we're all scratching our heads and thinking they are crazy. On the show, that's the entire point. It's not real, no matter how much we'd all like it to be. Yes, the odd couple has managed to make this relationship last past the bubble, but that's honestly an anomaly and not something that can be expected to happen. So for me, talking about who she will marry is kind of like fantasy-talk, it's fun to discuss but I don't take any of it seriously.

It is kind of nice that there have been more "happy" hook-ups and successes with bachelor/ette rejects. So, in a way the fantasy kind of points the direction for some of the real life. I just love some of the couples that have come from the cast-offs.

by ironcat Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:18 pm

sweetpea wrote:
CHO wrote:

And then the other issue - you are planning on being engaged soon - and you are not spending time with that person.... does not make sense to me.

If we consider this context, the entire premise of the show doesn't make sense.

I look at the entire thing as a fantasy. This is not real life. In real life, if someone gets engaged after spending what amounts to one day with another person, we're all scratching our heads and thinking they are crazy. On the show, that's the entire point. It's not real, no matter how much we'd all like it to be. Yes, the odd couple has managed to make this relationship last past the bubble, but that's honestly an anomaly and not something that can be expected to happen. So for me, talking about who she will marry is kind of like fantasy-talk, it's fun to discuss but I don't take any of it seriously.

Yeah, because there is a huge difference between spending a total of (the equivalent of) five days with someone, and spending a total of (the equivalent of ) six days with someone. That extra day should definitely be enough to know you are ready to get engaged. duh

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