Episode 7 - 7/11 - Discussion - Spoilers

ironcat wrote:If we are to assume that Coastal's spoiler is correct, all of it, and JP's edit is going to go down the tubes, what I am trying to figure out is what the logic was for the producers to give us the storyline they did, when there were other options. They purposely presented JP in a way that most viewers fell in love with him, saw him as the foil to Bentley. This image has continued through most of the show. Even Monday's episode only turned off maybe a handful of his fans, while it endeared him more to an equal number probably. They now have 3 epsiodes to kick the legs out of the whole storyline, and get the viewers to turn on their hero. Is this wise storytelling by any stretch of the imagination? I could understand JP getting his heart broken at the end, as long as he still remained the hero we were rooting for, but the spoiler specifically says his edit will deteriorate. That's totally counterintuitive, and follows no logical storyline I have ever heard of. Your hero either comes from behind, or overcomes obstacles, or loses at the end and we all cry together. What doesn't happen is he turns into the villain at the last minute and then gets his ass kicked, and the guy who just got noticed in the last third of the story ends up winning.

I don't know what's going to happen with the jealousy edit but maybe they want us to see him experience heartbreak so he can be the next Bachelor a la Jason or Chris L (even though he turned them down). Not only did a lot of people love Jason during DeAnna's season but were shocked that she didn't pick him. It's my belief that they want whichever guy is the f2 but if he turns them down it will be Ryan.

If they continue with the jealousy edit, I believe it may be because they want to show why Ashley didn't pick him instead of Ben. We haven't seen the future episodes so she may end up annoyed with him because of it. That's pure speculation I know but it could explain why the edit and why we may understand her not picking him looking back. He still could be f1 but am wondering why they even went there if so. They set it up with him talking about the guys kissing Ashley bothering him earlier in the season.

Alanna wrote:

noobsleuth wrote:

ironcat wrote:If we are to assume that Coastal's spoiler is correct, all of it, and JP's edit is going to go down the tubes, what I am trying to figure out is what the logic was for the producers to give us the storyline they did, when there were other options. They purposely presented JP in a way that most viewers fell in love with him, saw him as the foil to Bentley. This image has continued through most of the show. Even Monday's episode only turned off maybe a handful of his fans, while it endeared him more to an equal number probably. They now have 3 epsiodes to kick the legs out from under the whole storyline, and get the viewers to turn on their hero. Is this wise storytelling by any stretch of the imagination? I could understand JP getting his heart broken at the end, as long as he still remained the hero we were rooting for, but the spoiler specifically says his edit will deteriorate. That's totally counterintuitive, and follows no logical storyline I have ever heard of. Your hero either comes from behind, or overcomes obstacles, or loses at the end and we all cry together. What doesn't happen is he turns into the villain at the last minute and then gets his ass kicked, and the guy who just got noticed in the last third of the story ends up winning.

Talk about jumping the shark. That whole scenario would make my head hurt. It would probably keep me off of the editing thread (my biggest addiction) for the next couple of seasons though.

Umm yeah, I'd be immediately cured of this show.

rc49ers wrote:Has RS changed his F-1 ending ? or is this new information just from the poster ?

Its from coastal. There's a separate thread for it.

Dose anyone have a idea when ATFR is being filmed? Guess we won't know the truth till that happens.

ironcat wrote:If we are to assume that Coastal's spoiler is correct, all of it, and JP's edit is going to go down the tubes, what I am trying to figure out is what the logic was for the producers to give us the storyline they did, when there were other options. They purposely presented JP in a way that most viewers fell in love with him, saw him as the foil to Bentley. This image has continued through most of the show. Even Monday's episode only turned off maybe a handful of his fans, while it endeared him more to an equal number probably. They now have 3 epsiodes to kick the legs out from under the whole storyline, and get the viewers to turn on their hero. Is this wise storytelling by any stretch of the imagination? I could understand JP getting his heart broken at the end, as long as he still remained the hero we were rooting for, but the spoiler specifically says his edit will deteriorate. That's totally counterintuitive, and follows no logical storyline I have ever heard of. Your hero either comes from behind, or overcomes obstacles, or loses at the end and we all cry together. What doesn't happen is he turns into the villain at the last minute and then gets his ass kicked, and the guy who just got noticed in the last third of the story ends up winning.

great post! I think the viewing public could relate at this point to a JP/Bentley F2 matchup and the F1 going either way (sad to say but her picking an aplogetic Bentley wouldn't shock anybody even if they thought she was nuts to do so), or even a JP/Ryan F2 matchup and that going either way depending on what happens on last dates, but a JP/Ben F2 matchup and Ben end up being F1 would be a WTH moment for sure but her going with JP would seem the most natural and the most acceptable to the viewing audience as it ending in a love story... IMO of course.

noobsleuth wrote:

ironcat wrote:If we are to assume that Coastal's spoiler is correct, all of it, and JP's edit is going to go down the tubes, what I am trying to figure out is what the logic was for the producers to give us the storyline they did, when there were other options. They purposely presented JP in a way that most viewers fell in love with him, saw him as the foil to Bentley. This image has continued through most of the show. Even Monday's episode only turned off maybe a handful of his fans, while it endeared him more to an equal number probably. They now have 3 epsiodes to kick the legs out from under the whole storyline, and get the viewers to turn on their hero. Is this wise storytelling by any stretch of the imagination? I could understand JP getting his heart broken at the end, as long as he still remained the hero we were rooting for, but the spoiler specifically says his edit will deteriorate. That's totally counterintuitive, and follows no logical storyline I have ever heard of. Your hero either comes from behind, or overcomes obstacles, or loses at the end and we all cry together. What doesn't happen is he turns into the villain at the last minute and then gets his ass kicked, and the guy who just got noticed in the last third of the story ends up winning.

Talk about jumping the shark. That whole scenario would make my head hurt. It would probably keep me off of the editing thread (my biggest addiction) for the next couple of seasons though.

The only way I could see this is if JP was originally going to be the loveable F3 with Ames and Ben being F2/F1..... but the F3 doesn't usually get the chemistry edit to this degree. I really think Ames assesses the situation accurately and knows exactly where he stands. He is one with his mouth open during the wedding shoot (I think he is watching JP/Ash kisses) not believing what he is seeing. All of the these scenerios are making my head hurt!lol

ironcat wrote:If we are to assume that Coastal's spoiler is correct, all of it, and JP's edit is going to go down the tubes, what I am trying to figure out is what the logic was for the producers to give us the storyline they did, when there were other options. They purposely presented JP in a way that most viewers fell in love with him, saw him as the foil to Bentley. This image has continued through most of the show. Even Monday's episode only turned off maybe a handful of his fans, while it endeared him more to an equal number probably. They now have 3 epsiodes to kick the legs out from under the whole storyline, and get the viewers to turn on their hero. Is this wise storytelling by any stretch of the imagination? I could understand JP getting his heart broken at the end, as long as he still remained the hero we were rooting for, but the spoiler specifically says his edit will deteriorate. That's totally counterintuitive, and follows no logical storyline I have ever heard of. Your hero either comes from behind, or overcomes obstacles, or loses at the end and we all cry together. What doesn't happen is he turns into the villain at the last minute and then gets his ass kicked, and the guy who just got noticed in the last third of the story ends up winning.

If most of the active posters jumped on the JP bandwagon (I think a lot who see the Ben connection are lurking - and it's frankly just too difficult to make people understand the other side and ---- who knows who the F1 will be?)-- I think it was partly because JP was rumored by RS and magazines to be the F1. And we had the cute cupcake talk - and he was assertive - and he fell head over heels for Ashley and she looks so happy when she is with him. It was all immediate and on the surface it looks good. Then we got rid of Bentley if he was in fact a threat - and then it's smooth sailing for JP. Logic can get in my way - but I am and probably always will be suspect of people who fall for someone immediately and have no doubts or questions to work out. I am not saying love at first sight does not exist but JP is exercising no caution. What does he really know about Ashley? Shouldn't he wonder why he has gotten such little time with her? He was upset - but she gave him the rose and then he was fine. JP's approach has bothered me from the beginning. And the fact that he does not know what is going on in her head - is a red flag. If something were going on - I think he should be able to feel it - and be able to believe in it and trust it. So that has me concerned about JP - and then his impatience starting with the frustration of not getting a date - having to talk with her immediately at the 2nd RC - flipping a coin to get an early kiss - and then having to win at the boxing and the frustration with Ben's date and not being all there at the wedding photos. He had to talk with Ashley and get reassurance.
The other thing I keep thinking about - is that after Bentley left Ashley told us all that she was devastated - felt so alone - didn't knpw how she could continue with this process etc. From what I had seen - the cupcake talk, the flipping of the coin kiss which was so wonderful - had happened by then. So why did she feel so alone - why did she think she could not continue? If JP had charmed her somewhat by then - he should have been in her thoughts.... to my way of thinking.

And then the other issue - you are planning on being engaged soon - and you are not spending time with that person.... does not make sense to me.

NCGalBecca wrote:Also, JP was obviously self aware enough to own his behavior and admit it to others and Ashley. He discussed it rationally with her and in the past, has voiced his dislike of the process to the other guys who, in turn, have playfully teased him about it. You can't tell me they haven't enjoyed ribbing him about it. I don't think they would bother if he was such a pain to be around.

To me, his behavior is much different than that of a jealous hot head who stews, confronts others and kicks and screams and makes demands.

Foreshadowing from episode #4...

Blake (episode #4): It is what it is, you know. It’s the nature of this whole beast. Everybody’s kinda going after the same piece of fruit. It’s tough. It is really tough to do it.
Ben: Just be patient, otherwise you’ll drive yourself crazy. (twirling motion)
JP.: I’m on the way…
Ben (mouth full of apple): I can tell, man! I can tell. Your mood-things are a little different.
JP: Well... this isn’t normal for me. I mean, it’s not normal for anybody, I guess, but... It chaps my ass, man…

Ben was not bothered at all about JP. He stated rather quickly “We did not share a room.” but I don't think he fears that his head will be bashed into the wall. There was some lop and chop in those scenes, however, suggesting it was worse than it was.

I also have to disagree with all of the previous posts suggesting there was antagonism between JP and Lucas. Don't take this the wrong way and I am only joking here... but I think (borrowing from Dave Good), a few of you may be drinking from the same beer glass as Mike Fleiss and getting a few of his cooties in your system. Lucas was simply being honest about JP's mood-swing, even joking how he made a complete turnaround once the tux was put on. He was the one who told Ryan "JP is not taking this well" and Ryan pretty much knew what he was saying. Some may see that as a "red flag". I just think ALL of the guys are simply noticing how Gone! Gone! Gone! this guy is. (He sure looked mighty glassy-eyed in that Hong Kong zodiac park... and twice so watching her arrive before that RC ceremony. Ryan couldn't stop looking back and forth between the two in those scenes.)

I admit that there are some loose screws in my brain, but I am really, really, really, really having trouble this season figuring out what is REAL and what is REALITY TV. When Reid got dumped a second time his season, he was dropping F-bombs in the departing SUV. That boy was upset and having trouble coping. Ryan, on the other hand, was running behind the bushes to do his crying and the camera angles were so over-the-top. Now, I'm not saying Ryan wasn't upset about being dumped. Maybe he really was on Cloud 9 and the rain started. Maybe his Red Bull kicked in too much... or the V-pill they've been dropping in his drinks was giving him too much energy. It just gave me very peculiar "vibes".

Now I won't deny the "chemistry" with Ben and Ashley. They are the best of buddies, just like Trista and Charlie. She certainly thinks he's hot enough to kiss provided somebody is tossing a flame torch or there's a fire a-brewing nearby to add extra "emphasis" to her passion comments.

My goofy, destorted, brain can easily see a bro-duddy discussion with Dino about who is better "acting out love scenes for the cameras" and determining who should stick it out to final 2. No doubt, Ben wouldn't mind another plug to his wine in the Meet The Parents episode. Dino already gets the restaurant promoted on hometown.

Ben is the perfect guy to take to her folks for a round of "20 questions" over dinner. (Favorites from that season: "What part of your body, apart from your face, do you shave?" Charlie's answer about his chest resembling a sweater had me in stitches. When asked about what he had under his bed? Dust bunnies! It is a shame nobody has uploaded Charlie's visit with Trista's folks on youtube. Classic Reality TV. Classic!)

It doesn't matter who provides the spoilers this season, Coastal or anybody else, but this is the PERFECT TIME for all of the "Ben is F1 and JP is destined to spazz out" speculation to begin. I'll just read the posts and chuckle to myself... and, hey, I'm prepared to be bamboozled like everybody else! It is only a silly show. If the ending is different than what I think it is, then I certainly won't be the only one scratching my head. Many of the unspoiled viewers will also be scratching their heads as well. Hmmm... just how does Jordan's Breakdown relate to BentleyGate and her finding "closure"? Great storyboarding here, I must say!

Let the Great Mind**** Battle that happens every season begin!

Ha ha!

If most of the active posters jumped on the JP bandwagon (I think a lot who see the Ben connection are lurking - and it's frankly just too difficult to make people understand the other side and ---- who knows who the F1 will be?)-- I think it was partly because JP was rumored by RS and magazines to be the F1. And we had the cute cupcake talk - and he was assertive - and he fell head over heels for Ashley and she looks so happy when she is with him. It was all immediate and on the surface it looks good. Then we got rid of Bentley if he was in fact a threat - and then it's smooth sailing for JP. Logic can get in my way - but I am and probably always will be suspect of people who fall for someone immediately and have no doubts or questions to work out. I am not saying love at first sight does not exist but JP is exercising no caution. What does he really know about Ashley? Shouldn't he wonder why he has gotten such little time with her? He was upset - but she gave him the rose and then he was fine. JP's approach has bothered me from the beginning. And the fact that he does not know what is going on in her head - is a red flag. If something were going on - I think he should be able to feel it - and be able to believe in it and trust it. So that has me concerned about JP - and then his impatience starting with the frustration of not getting a date - having to talk with her immediately at the 2nd RC - flipping a coin to get an early kiss - and then having to win at the boxing and the frustration with Ben's date and not being all there at the wedding photos. He had to talk with Ashley and get reassurance.
The other thing I keep thinking about - is that after Bentley left Ashley told us all that she was devastated - felt so alone - didn't knpw how she could continue with this process etc. From what I had seen - the cupcake talk, the flipping of the coin kiss which was so wonderful - had happened by then. So why did she feel so alone - why did she think she could not continue? If JP had charmed her somewhat by then - he should have been in her thoughts.... to my way of thinking.

And then the other issue - you are planning on being engaged soon - and you are not spending time with that person.... does not make sense to me.[/quote]

I hear your concern about JP...you make some good points...
This has a similar Trista & Ryan ring to it. Ryan was more quiet and inwardly frustrated than JP....but the lead is not really allowed to tell these guys her feelings...& it drove Ryan pretty crazy, because he was nuts over Trista...just as JP is over Ashley...

I remember T/R's proposal, Trista saying ..."Now I can tell you what I've been feeling without reservation..."


Come HTD episode, I think were really going to see out of the remaining guys, who is genuinely really ready to settle down & propose. That will tell us a lot .

:missclap: Great post and thoroughly enjoyable! I'll be right there watching with you. I have to say I'm never right and I always love the F3 but not this time so...........

[quote="bing2262"]

KarmaGirl wrote:

Coastal wrote:

KarmaGirl wrote:I've never read where CH said JP was impossible to be around because of his moods. Are you making this up?

NOPE, I don't "make things up"

---------

This really interests me and is a red flag re JP. Can you link the article where CH said JP was impossible to be around because of his moods? I'll google it too. Wowza - not a good sign.[/quote


Here is what CH wrote in his Episode 7 blog about JP's so called "foul mood":
"JP was in a foul mood all week and being put on the group date only made it worse. It’s not that he’s necessarily insecure, it’s tough for these guys who care for Ashley at this point to have to watch her date the other guys"

Nope, CH did not say "JP was impossible to be around because of his moods" in his blog, not even close. Judge for yourself if CH said what was stated that he said , maybe it was just misinterpretation of what he wrote in his blog.

Thanks for posting...didn't remember the 'impossible to be around'!

CHO wrote:

ironcat wrote:If we are to assume that Coastal's spoiler is correct, all of it, and JP's edit is going to go down the tubes, what I am trying to figure out is what the logic was for the producers to give us the storyline they did, when there were other options. They purposely presented JP in a way that most viewers fell in love with him, saw him as the foil to Bentley. This image has continued through most of the show. Even Monday's episode only turned off maybe a handful of his fans, while it endeared him more to an equal number probably. They now have 3 epsiodes to kick the legs out from under the whole storyline, and get the viewers to turn on their hero. Is this wise storytelling by any stretch of the imagination? I could understand JP getting his heart broken at the end, as long as he still remained the hero we were rooting for, but the spoiler specifically says his edit will deteriorate. That's totally counterintuitive, and follows no logical storyline I have ever heard of. Your hero either comes from behind, or overcomes obstacles, or loses at the end and we all cry together. What doesn't happen is he turns into the villain at the last minute and then gets his ass kicked, and the guy who just got noticed in the last third of the story ends up winning.

If most of the active posters jumped on the JP bandwagon (I think a lot who see the Ben connection are lurking - and it's frankly just too difficult to make people understand the other side and ---- who knows who the F1 will be?)-- I think it was partly because JP was rumored by RS and magazines to be the F1. And we had the cute cupcake talk - and he was assertive - and he fell head over heels for Ashley and she looks so happy when she is with him. It was all immediate and on the surface it looks good. Then we got rid of Bentley if he was in fact a threat - and then it's smooth sailing for JP. Logic can get in my way - but I am and probably always will be suspect of people who fall for someone immediately and have no doubts or questions to work out. I am not saying love at first sight does not exist but JP is exercising no caution. What does he really know about Ashley? Shouldn't he wonder why he has gotten such little time with her? He was upset - but she gave him the rose and then he was fine. JP's approach has bothered me from the beginning. And the fact that he does not know what is going on in her head - is a red flag. If something were going on - I think he should be able to feel it - and be able to believe in it and trust it. So that has me concerned about JP - and then his impatience starting with the frustration of not getting a date - having to talk with her immediately at the 2nd RC - flipping a coin to get an early kiss - and then having to win at the boxing and the frustration with Ben's date and not being all there at the wedding photos. He had to talk with Ashley and get reassurance.
The other thing I keep thinking about - is that after Bentley left Ashley told us all that she was devastated - felt so alone - didn't knpw how she could continue with this process etc. From what I had seen - the cupcake talk, the flipping of the coin kiss which was so wonderful - had happened by then. So why did she feel so alone - why did she think she could not continue? If JP had charmed her somewhat by then - he should have been in her thoughts.... to my way of thinking.

And then the other issue - you are planning on being engaged soon - and you are not spending time with that person.... does not make sense to me.

I am not referring to posters on this board. We are a very small (sorry, guys) percentage of total viewers, the majority of whom are unspoiled. The interest in JP, and his standing as the favorite, is widespread and overwhelming; I'm sorry if those who don't care for him or have another favorite refuse to acknowledge this, but it's fact, not opinion. The number of followers on his fanpage is more than 10 times what Ben's is, and almost as many as Ashley has. Yes, there were early spoilers out in the media, but anyone who thinks that is the only reason the overall viewing audience are JP fans is kidding themselves. He is extremely appealing, and has been presented as such through the edit (and didn't have to be), to a majority of viewers, even if you personally don't see it. I myself never got the Chris L love, he just didn't appeal that much to me, but I didn't try to deny that he was the overwhelming fan favorite, and the same with Emily.

Not sure what "other issue" you are referring to.