Episode 7 - 7/11 - Discussion - Spoilers

Babycakee wrote:

moonchild wrote:

Babycakee wrote:

ironcat wrote:

Babycakee wrote:I've been away for a couple of day, therefore there is no way I'll be able to catch up. Just wondering if it's been discussed as to why Ben's overnight was all but dismissed in this episode. TPTB barely touched on the subject. Was it planned? Was there a train or bus missed? Or were they having so much fun they wanted to extend the date? It's odd, that if it was planned nobody, including Ben, was privy to it; yet he walked back in with suitcase in hand. In past seasons the overnight dates were definitely highlighted, right?? Hmmm.... color me confused!

I think I need more than koolaid or alcohol to understand this season! :margarita:

The details of the date were definitely planned in advance by the producers. I imagine they wanted to use the locations in question, and when they realized the distances involved (someone said a 4 hour drive from the guys' hotel), realized that it would make more sense for the couple to just stay overnight (in separate rooms they booked in advance) at a local hotel, and then they would be able to use this whole scenario as added "drama". The only thing left was deciding which guy to give the date to in order to further the storyline and produce the most drama. Ben was the obvious choice, as they needed to push him more to the forefront anyway, knowing by then he was most probably going to be one of Ashley's finalists, and he was due a second date anyway. The fact that JP was wrestling with the whole process and having feelings of jealousy at the time was an added bonus.

All in all, it was much ado about nothing, and unlike with other early "overnights" on past seasons (Molly, Chantal), they didn't even show the couple getting "cozy" for the night, just the drama of the morning after.

Whether either Ashley or Ben knew the full details in advance, we don't really know. My guess is Ashley did and Ben didn't, although he did pack a suitcase, so he may have had an inkling.

Thanks ironcat What you say makes obvious sense, as always! 8) But, imho, not highlighting Ben and Ashley's overnight (I mean no discussion of spending the night together was aired), does not bode well for Ben being the F1; even if he is F1, which at this point I don't believe he is.

Didn't Ben say when he came in, that he didn't know it was going to be an overnight. But then, he said it walking in with a suitcase. Kinda confusing !!

Yup, that's what he said. He also said they had breakfast but why I ask did they not show us on iota of evidence that this took place? Bachelor minds want to know!!

sjcaligurl wrote:I don't think any JP fans hate Ben but the reverse seems to be somewhat the case. I can deal with her picking Ben because he is a sweet guy who would probably be good to her. But, he is exactly what she says he is. A 'boyfriend' and she's used to having boyfriends. JP brings something else out of her and her press quotes that she feels like a woman seem apropos for what I'm seeing w/JP. She'll be okay either way though after August 1, it would be a lot easier for her to hop a train from Phllly to NYC than a plane from Philly to SFO. That flight is a nightmare. LOL!

nutty1 wrote:

sjcaligurl wrote:I don't think any JP fans hate Ben but the reverse seems to be somewhat the case. I can deal with her picking Ben because he is a sweet guy who would probably be good to her. But, he is exactly what she says he is. A 'boyfriend' and she's used to having boyfriends. JP brings something else out of her and her press quotes that she feels like a woman seem apropos for what I'm seeing w/JP. She'll be okay either way though after August 1, it would be a lot easier for her to hop a train from Phllly to NYC than a plane from Philly to SFO. That flight is a nightmare. LOL!

I think very few Ben fans, if any, "hate" JP. I think he is a nice guy....he just doesn't float my boat! But if he is Ashley's choice, that's a really great thing. Sometimes I think we just feel that "everything" points to JP and it get a bit defeating. Like Cupcakes said, it is tough to be in the minority.But I am fine, living in my fantasy world for a few more weeks. I shold be use to it, I usually am in the minority, LOL!

nutty1 wrote:

sjcaligurl wrote:I don't think any JP fans hate Ben but the reverse seems to be somewhat the case. I can deal with her picking Ben because he is a sweet guy who would probably be good to her. But, he is exactly what she says he is. A 'boyfriend' and she's used to having boyfriends. JP brings something else out of her and her press quotes that she feels like a woman seem apropos for what I'm seeing w/JP. She'll be okay either way though after August 1, it would be a lot easier for her to hop a train from Phllly to NYC than a plane from Philly to SFO. That flight is a nightmare. LOL!

I think very few Ben fans, if any, "hate" JP. I think he is a nice guy....he just doesn't float my boat! But if he is Ashley's choice, that's a really great thing. Sometimes I think we just feel that "everything" points to JP and it get a bit defeating. Like Cupcakes said, it is tough to be in the minority.But I am fine, living in my fantasy world for a few more weeks. I shold be use to it, I usually am in the minority, LOL!

albean99 wrote:

nutty1 wrote:

sjcaligurl wrote:I don't think any JP fans hate Ben but the reverse seems to be somewhat the case. I can deal with her picking Ben because he is a sweet guy who would probably be good to her. But, he is exactly what she says he is. A 'boyfriend' and she's used to having boyfriends. JP brings something else out of her and her press quotes that she feels like a woman seem apropos for what I'm seeing w/JP. She'll be okay either way though after August 1, it would be a lot easier for her to hop a train from Phllly to NYC than a plane from Philly to SFO. That flight is a nightmare. LOL!

I think very few Ben fans, if any, "hate" JP. I think he is a nice guy....he just doesn't float my boat! But if he is Ashley's choice, that's a really great thing. Sometimes I think we just feel that "everything" points to JP and it get a bit defeating. Like Cupcakes said, it is tough to be in the minority.But I am fine, living in my fantasy world for a few more weeks. I shold be use to it, I usually am in the minority, LOL!

I'll join you in the minority, Nutty, like you didn't already know that. :awesome: I also don't dislike JP, just a little tired of reading about him. I'm sure the non-Ben fans would get equally tired of him if we were in greater numbers or more prolific. :Nod:

richlp wrote:

albean99 wrote:

nutty1 wrote:

sjcaligurl wrote:I don't think any JP fans hate Ben but the reverse seems to be somewhat the case. I can deal with her picking Ben because he is a sweet guy who would probably be good to her. But, he is exactly what she says he is. A 'boyfriend' and she's used to having boyfriends. JP brings something else out of her and her press quotes that she feels like a woman seem apropos for what I'm seeing w/JP. She'll be okay either way though after August 1, it would be a lot easier for her to hop a train from Phllly to NYC than a plane from Philly to SFO. That flight is a nightmare. LOL!

I think very few Ben fans, if any, "hate" JP. I think he is a nice guy....he just doesn't float my boat! But if he is Ashley's choice, that's a really great thing. Sometimes I think we just feel that "everything" points to JP and it get a bit defeating. Like Cupcakes said, it is tough to be in the minority.But I am fine, living in my fantasy world for a few more weeks. I shold be use to it, I usually am in the minority, LOL!

I'll join you in the minority, Nutty, like you didn't already know that. :awesome: I also don't dislike JP, just a little tired of reading about him. I'm sure the non-Ben fans would get equally tired of him if we were in greater numbers or more prolific. :Nod:

Yeah, after the first couple dozen cupcakes, I start to get a little nauseous... 'course. the same thing happens after a couple dozen glasses of wine, too...

ironcat wrote:

Coastal wrote:

KarmaGirl wrote:

sjcaligurl wrote:I don't have JP on a pedestal. He seems like a regular guy. Any guy who wouldn't get heated seeing me kiss or date other men is probably a pimp and he'd probably be trying to get some money from the guys. LOL!

Lucas looked like he was pretty much seething on that wedding picture date moreso than JP and all he complained about was wearing a dress. He should have told her that he didn't like seeing her kiss JP and Ames too. LOL!

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TOTALLY AGREE!

Not caring that Ashley is locking lips with the other guys means you really don't care that you get sloppy seconds, and really don't care about the girl enough to bother being jealous. Lucas said as much that he didn't care - saying they were really different and a relationship would have been an uphill battle. Rather than be upset that Ashley was kissing other men in front of him, Lucas was upset he had to wear a dress.

JP cares about Ashley. His jealousy was about real feelings of love/passion for Ashley. He didn't whine about Bentley coming back, or whine about the date's attire like Lucas did - he was upset because the woman he feels he is falling in love with was out all night with another man. That left him to wonder, "Was what we had real or not?" He is emotionally invested and is already worrying about losing Ashley. Sounds very normal to me.

I'm loving watching this amazing love story unfold. If Ashley doesn't pick JP - then Ben must really do an end-run, because I wouldn't have seen it coming!

That's the idea, you hardly ever see the F1 coming......they just are there. As far as JP being on the pedestal around here.........that's for sure. When someone mentions something against JP, that poster gets bombarded.

Like I said before, sometimes it seems like this has turned into a JP fansite board........too bad.

And sometimes it seems like this board has turned into a JP hate site, depending on which posts you read, with posters being bombarded and their opinions dismissed as just putting JP on a "pedestal" for considering anything he does in a positive light. There is plenty of speculation about JP's supposed "gloating" (no evidence) and dangerous temper (no evidence) from people who seem to have a grudge against him. (I guess that is the opposite of the pedestal). Same difference, as far as I'm concerned, and neither side is any more entitled to their opinion than the other, nor is their opinion more valid or unbiased. There is bias on both sides, although not everybody will admit to it, is all.

And again, if Ashley had already definitively admitted on camera that she "loved Ben" in such a way that it indicated any deep emotional attachment, the show would be over.

anders wrote:

Nativenewyorker wrote:

sjcaligurl wrote:They have been making fun of JP since the beginning and they knew that he liked her. They'd all been playing it cool and macho while he'd been wearing his heart on his sleeve. Bottom line is that they are going home one by one and he ... IS NOT! LOL!

Lucas is full of it. He was not happy about JP getting the Tux or about the kissing of the other guys. But he chose to complain about wearing a dress and feeling stupid. Why not complain about not wanting a group date where you kiss other guys which was the real issue. He would have worn a tutu had it just been them alone.

I had to come back here to say something about what Lucas had to say about JP. As far as I am concerned, Lucas is the last person to be judging the behavior of anyone else! Have we forgotten his little hissy fit when Ashley told the guys about Bentley? He showed more than a little temper at that time. What was that comment he made about her - don't waste my f------ time! He was really pissed off. So spare me his phony comments. And his anger was supposedly over a woman who he has admitted now that he wasn't really feeling anything for, certainly nothing like what JP feels for Ashley. At least JP has honest feelings and cares.

Lucas needs to take a good look in the mirror before he goes off on JP.

you're talking apples and chairs - Lucas gave us insight to JPs behaviour that the audience wasn't aware of until this episode. Has nothing to do with how Lucas reacted to the Bent stuff. Frankly, since Lucas was a F5, I never gave his edit any weight, it never mattered in the long run. I'm glad we got something from Lucas about JP because without it one would think his behaviour that morning was out of the norm, we now know it was typical JP behaviour when he's pissed/jealous/whatever.

Coastal wrote:

ironcat wrote:

Coastal wrote:

KarmaGirl wrote:

sjcaligurl wrote:I don't have JP on a pedestal. He seems like a regular guy. Any guy who wouldn't get heated seeing me kiss or date other men is probably a pimp and he'd probably be trying to get some money from the guys. LOL!

Lucas looked like he was pretty much seething on that wedding picture date moreso than JP and all he complained about was wearing a dress. He should have told her that he didn't like seeing her kiss JP and Ames too. LOL!

-----------------------------
TOTALLY AGREE!

Not caring that Ashley is locking lips with the other guys means you really don't care that you get sloppy seconds, and really don't care about the girl enough to bother being jealous. Lucas said as much that he didn't care - saying they were really different and a relationship would have been an uphill battle. Rather than be upset that Ashley was kissing other men in front of him, Lucas was upset he had to wear a dress.

JP cares about Ashley. His jealousy was about real feelings of love/passion for Ashley. He didn't whine about Bentley coming back, or whine about the date's attire like Lucas did - he was upset because the woman he feels he is falling in love with was out all night with another man. That left him to wonder, "Was what we had real or not?" He is emotionally invested and is already worrying about losing Ashley. Sounds very normal to me.

I'm loving watching this amazing love story unfold. If Ashley doesn't pick JP - then Ben must really do an end-run, because I wouldn't have seen it coming!

That's the idea, you hardly ever see the F1 coming......they just are there. As far as JP being on the pedestal around here.........that's for sure. When someone mentions something against JP, that poster gets bombarded.

Like I said before, sometimes it seems like this has turned into a JP fansite board........too bad.

And sometimes it seems like this board has turned into a JP hate site, depending on which posts you read, with posters being bombarded and their opinions dismissed as just putting JP on a "pedestal" for considering anything he does in a positive light. There is plenty of speculation about JP's supposed "gloating" (no evidence) and dangerous temper (no evidence) from people who seem to have a grudge against him. (I guess that is the opposite of the pedestal). Same difference, as far as I'm concerned, and neither side is any more entitled to their opinion than the other, nor is their opinion more valid or unbiased. There is bias on both sides, although not everybody will admit to it, is all.

And again, if Ashley had already definitively admitted on camera that she "loved Ben" in such a way that it indicated any deep emotional attachment, the show would be over.

I think all I have ever said with regards to JP's attitude is that it was pretty childish, he did shoot daggers in his look to Ben, and his attitude is well known with the guys as all 3 that were there in the room, Lucas, Ames and Ryan all remarked that he has gone into his dark side and that he's not handling things well. OBVIOUSLY it wasn't the first time that he's done that........so much so that the other guys knew his moods. CH even said that he was impossible to be around due to his moods. So when you take that into account, it is ovious that the guys have seen that side of JP a few times.

As far as JP being put on a pedestal around here,,,,,,,,,that is so obvious. The fact that a poster says something negative of JP, there are so many posters that attactk that statement and use statements like......... "Throwing around words like "dangerous" is, at best, irresponsible and, at worst, salacious." .............. to describe a posters actions..........now I would say that as being a very "dangerous"
thing to do. But then again, that's just MHO.

anders wrote:

Coastal wrote: At this time, JP hadn't released the L bomb either..........so your statement of how he loved her more than Ben, how can that be made??

WOW, it is really going to surprise some on here if JP is F2.........

I hope you brought your suit of armour with you - when I posted that sentiment a few weeks ago, I got skewered and bar-b-qued - I'm still putting sauve on the burns.....

happyntexas wrote:

albean99 wrote:I really think it was two things. 1- Emily which shortened everything. 2. It didn't fit Ben's edit if they highlighted the overnight because for some reason they're choosing not to show him as a frontrunner even though he clearly was along with JP. I also think it's something to do with protecting the female leads' rep judging by how many times separate rooms was repeated.

Well they honestly had to say something to the viewers. did you see how many web articles came out just a few hours after the episode aired stating she had spent all night with Ben. The jumped on it quick. They had no choice to write and talk and make sure everyone knew nothing went down.