Episode 7 - 7/11 - Discussion - Spoilers

CHO wrote:I also see JP's reactions to Ben's date and Ashley's kissing Lucas for the wedding photos as a bit of a red flag. I just find that kind of jealousy exhibited by mood swings, can't stick around - "storming out" and then telling Ashley all about his insecurities as unattractive, and manipulative. But we are all different and I enjoy reading how others are seeing it. Ashley has to keep JP around even if she is not falling in love with him. He may be her F1 but if she is falling for Ben - she still has to keep JP around and the way you do that is to keep him happy - thus reassuring him that all is ok by giving him the rose. (It worked). She may be giving it to him because she really does care for him and doesn't want him to be upset. We shall find out. Interesting that Ben is not that worried about her feelings for him. Isn't this a common scenario - the F2 (maybe JP) is not getting the reassurance they need - thus constant torment (remember Chantal's tears?)
But what I question is - the depth of JP's apparent love for Ashley. Pretty much immediately he was totally smitten - he complains about how little time they have spent together - has to flip a coin to get her to kiss him (impatient). Then the ep 3 date - an evening only date - she was depressed over Bentley - and she falls asleep ! By HK - she should know how he feels - he has never really told us what about her he has fallen for - does he even know? Another mostly serious date - clearing the air etc. To me he seems over anxious, insecure, feeling threatened. Is he really in love or is it the competition, possible loss of pride etc. ? It goes without saying that I am more imoressed with Ben's careful approach - and of course having been in the Bach bubble - it is important to get a reality check and see how things go on the htd. Ben is being specific about his feelings and how they are growing for Ashley. If I were Ashley, I would feel a lot more secure being told why he feels the way he does - instead of the you know how I am feeling approach.
I know it's been discussed before - but I think A is spending time with Ben - 2 long dates - for a reason. How can she believe in her love for JP after spending so little time with him ? She is a smart girl - I don't see her as being impulsive. You don't convince yourself that you are in love with one person by spending more time with the others as a comparison .....
I may be surprised by a JP ending - and if so I wish them well - but I at this stage am suspect.

ironcat wrote: So can we fairly make the assumption that JP was the only guy in the house who ever exhibited any anger or jealousy the whole time these guys spent with each other? I don't doubt that over the course of several weeks together in close quarters, it was not all singing Kumbaya all the time, and many of the guys may have also been in bad moods over something on occasion (or more than one occasion). Since it wasn't relevant to Lucas' interview, we wouldn't have heard about it though. Nothing that Lucas said about JP's moods indicated that it was extreme or a habitual problem, and we don't even know if it bothered anybody else besides him (and it's pretty clear from other things he's said that he's not JP's biggest fan in the first place, and they apprear to have very little in common as well, particularly on an emotional level).

anders wrote:

ironcat wrote: So can we fairly make the assumption that JP was the only guy in the house who ever exhibited any anger or jealousy the whole time these guys spent with each other? I don't doubt that over the course of several weeks together in close quarters, it was not all singing Kumbaya all the time, and many of the guys may have also been in bad moods over something on occasion (or more than one occasion). Since it wasn't relevant to Lucas' interview, we wouldn't have heard about it though. Nothing that Lucas said about JP's moods indicated that it was extreme or a habitual problem, and we don't even know if it bothered anybody else besides him (and it's pretty clear from other things he's said that he's not JP's biggest fan in the first place, and they apprear to have very little in common as well, particularly on an emotional level).

ironcat - you know me much better than that - that is not what I was saying at all. I can only comment on what they actually show us during an episode - and in episode 7 we found out that JP gets silent when he's out of sorts, and it just happened to be Lucas who told us that. For all we know JP had a bad hair day and moped around the rest of the day because of it LOL Where did I say that JP had a habitual anger problem??

Maybe it's me - maybe I just can't get my point across???

gurlbrit wrote:

anders wrote:

Coastal wrote: At this time, JP hadn't released the L bomb either..........so your statement of how he loved her more than Ben, how can that be made??

WOW, it is really going to surprise some on here if JP is F2.........

I hope you brought your suit of armour with you - when I posted that sentiment a few weeks ago, I got skewered and bar-b-qued - I'm still putting sauve on the burns.....

Nothing about this show surprises me, if JP is F2 so be it. However I will feel the same way about it that I felt about Chantal. It sucked for her to be the spoiled F1 after being dumped at the FRC. It will equally suck for JP if he's not F1.

agentcurls wrote:

CHO wrote:I also see JP's reactions to Ben's date and Ashley's kissing Lucas for the wedding photos as a bit of a red flag. I just find that kind of jealousy exhibited by mood swings, can't stick around - "storming out" and then telling Ashley all about his insecurities as unattractive, and manipulative. But we are all different and I enjoy reading how others are seeing it. Ashley has to keep JP around even if she is not falling in love with him. He may be her F1 but if she is falling for Ben - she still has to keep JP around and the way you do that is to keep him happy - thus reassuring him that all is ok by giving him the rose. (It worked). She may be giving it to him because she really does care for him and doesn't want him to be upset. We shall find out. Interesting that Ben is not that worried about her feelings for him. Isn't this a common scenario - the F2 (maybe JP) is not getting the reassurance they need - thus constant torment (remember Chantal's tears?)
But what I question is - the depth of JP's apparent love for Ashley. Pretty much immediately he was totally smitten - he complains about how little time they have spent together - has to flip a coin to get her to kiss him (impatient). Then the ep 3 date - an evening only date - she was depressed over Bentley - and she falls asleep ! By HK - she should know how he feels - he has never really told us what about her he has fallen for - does he even know? Another mostly serious date - clearing the air etc. To me he seems over anxious, insecure, feeling threatened. Is he really in love or is it the competition, possible loss of pride etc. ? It goes without saying that I am more imoressed with Ben's careful approach - and of course having been in the Bach bubble - it is important to get a reality check and see how things go on the htd. Ben is being specific about his feelings and how they are growing for Ashley. If I were Ashley, I would feel a lot more secure being told why he feels the way he does - instead of the you know how I am feeling approach.
I know it's been discussed before - but I think A is spending time with Ben - 2 long dates - for a reason. How can she believe in her love for JP after spending so little time with him ? She is a smart girl - I don't see her as being impulsive. You don't convince yourself that you are in love with one person by spending more time with the others as a comparison .....
I may be surprised by a JP ending - and if so I wish them well - but I at this stage am suspect.

I see what you are saying CHO...But she was expressing a bit of doubt in VO about needing to make sure there was a physical & emotional connection as her date with Ben was starting. It reminded me of the little VOs we would get of Ali expressing just a little doubt before a date with Chris L. I think she spent more time with Ben on dates perhaps because TPTB put her up to it, hoping to line Ben F up in closer competition to JP.... And we don't really know how late her "night dates" went into the night with JP...the HK date in particular...
I think Ben is fine man who expresses his feelings very logically & thoughtfully...kudos to him on that...but it might appear as "moving more slowly" and nothing about this process seems logical...it seems more gut instinct & impulsive....and on that note, Ashley & JP are very much the same. I think Ashley prefers the more emotive approach, with hints of jealousy & all...

MaggieMae wrote:We now have enough glue in this thread for every first grader in the country.

Sheesh.

sjcaligurl wrote:

gurlbrit wrote:

anders wrote:

Coastal wrote: At this time, JP hadn't released the L bomb either..........so your statement of how he loved her more than Ben, how can that be made??

WOW, it is really going to surprise some on here if JP is F2.........

I hope you brought your suit of armour with you - when I posted that sentiment a few weeks ago, I got skewered and bar-b-qued - I'm still putting sauve on the burns.....

Nothing about this show surprises me, if JP is F2 so be it. However I will feel the same way about it that I felt about Chantal. It sucked for her to be the spoiled F1 after being dumped at the FRC. It will equally suck for JP if he's not F1.

I don't know. I think it would be ultra sucky for Ben to be F1 and watch how attracted his new fiance was to the F2. Seriously, some of that footage is too hot to handle. What man wants to see that? She cannot keep her hands off of him so if she is 'faking it' for the surprise ending, she's been faking since she kissed him at the 2nd rose ceremony. She was faking when she was all cried out over Bentley but making out with and falling asleep in JP's arms. She was really faking when she was groping him in the rain in Phuket. She was faking beaming when she saw him on their second date, jumping into his arms, confessing her Bentley secret and then showing all that passion on the tram and on the roof. I'd say that's pretty elaborate and while I'm sure she had fun doing it, why isn't she as concerned about Ben's reaction to her hot moments with JP as she is about making clear in her blog that nothing happened on her overnight date with Ben and that she saw expressing feelings as a sign of strength and not weakness.

If she picks Ben, that will be fine if that is what she really wants. From what we can see, he seems like a great guy and a great catch. I think he is a very safe/comfortable/familiar choice. She's made that clear. JP seems like uncharted waters for some reason in her eyes. She may take the plunge and she may not. We're supposed to watch the show and experience the lead's love story no matter who she chooses. We are all going to have favorites but we can't get mad when she doesn't pick our pick. I won't be upset if she chooses Ben because I like Ben. I just like Ashley better when she is around JP.

Teenamarie wrote:

agentcurls wrote:

CHO wrote:I also see JP's reactions to Ben's date and Ashley's kissing Lucas for the wedding photos as a bit of a red flag. I just find that kind of jealousy exhibited by mood swings, can't stick around - "storming out" and then telling Ashley all about his insecurities as unattractive, and manipulative. But we are all different and I enjoy reading how others are seeing it. Ashley has to keep JP around even if she is not falling in love with him. He may be her F1 but if she is falling for Ben - she still has to keep JP around and the way you do that is to keep him happy - thus reassuring him that all is ok by giving him the rose. (It worked). She may be giving it to him because she really does care for him and doesn't want him to be upset. We shall find out. Interesting that Ben is not that worried about her feelings for him. Isn't this a common scenario - the F2 (maybe JP) is not getting the reassurance they need - thus constant torment (remember Chantal's tears?)
But what I question is - the depth of JP's apparent love for Ashley. Pretty much immediately he was totally smitten - he complains about how little time they have spent together - has to flip a coin to get her to kiss him (impatient). Then the ep 3 date - an evening only date - she was depressed over Bentley - and she falls asleep ! By HK - she should know how he feels - he has never really told us what about her he has fallen for - does he even know? Another mostly serious date - clearing the air etc. To me he seems over anxious, insecure, feeling threatened. Is he really in love or is it the competition, possible loss of pride etc. ? It goes without saying that I am more imoressed with Ben's careful approach - and of course having been in the Bach bubble - it is important to get a reality check and see how things go on the htd. Ben is being specific about his feelings and how they are growing for Ashley. If I were Ashley, I would feel a lot more secure being told why he feels the way he does - instead of the you know how I am feeling approach.
I know it's been discussed before - but I think A is spending time with Ben - 2 long dates - for a reason. How can she believe in her love for JP after spending so little time with him ? She is a smart girl - I don't see her as being impulsive. You don't convince yourself that you are in love with one person by spending more time with the others as a comparison .....
I may be surprised by a JP ending - and if so I wish them well - but I at this stage am suspect.

I see what you are saying CHO...But she was expressing a bit of doubt in VO about needing to make sure there was a physical & emotional connection as her date with Ben was starting. It reminded me of the little VOs we would get of Ali expressing just a little doubt before a date with Chris L. I think she spent more time with Ben on dates perhaps because TPTB put her up to it, hoping to line Ben F up in closer competition to JP.... And we don't really know how late her "night dates" went into the night with JP...the HK date in particular...
I think Ben is fine man who expresses his feelings very logically & thoughtfully...kudos to him on that...but it might appear as "moving more slowly" and nothing about this process seems logical...it seems more gut instinct & impulsive....and on that note, Ashley & JP are very much the same. I think Ashley prefers the more emotive approach, with hints of jealousy & all...

I see what you are saying AGENT and I am team cupcake all the way but I am worried about the edit on the last show that seems to push it in our face that JP is the only one with strong feelings for her. On Ali's season it was Frank who was always worried about Ali with the others and we got to see so many of Chris L's comments about Ali being the "perfect girl". RM on the other hand was so underplayed. It makes me think Ben might be F1 because it seems as though he is getting the guy in the "background" edit. I am rooting for JP so I hope your theory is right but the editing worries me.

northernviewer wrote:

MaggieMae wrote:We now have enough glue in this thread for every first grader in the country.

Sheesh.

it took me a few seconds but .....