Re: Episode 7 - 7/11 - Discussion - Spoilers

by northernviewer Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:31 am

vivalameagx3 wrote:
northernviewer wrote:Everybody keeps talking about the "never-before-seen jealous F1 edit"... well maybe it's because we have a "never-before-seen" lead that's been made fun of in PI's by a contestant, and then led on with a dot dot dot cause the guy was a total moron, and who was walked out on by a few contestants who made it clear that they really weren't into her, or one who's been roasted and her small breasts made fun of and humiliated because she was the Bach'ette .... and the list goes on and on about how insecure Ashley is that the guys don't really like her and wish the lead was anybody but her. JP at least cares about her and shows it... cause I haven't seen any sincere interest shown in her by any of the other guys. They seem more interested in being buds and hanging out in the frat house and teasing JP because they know he cares. Ryan cared about her but it was really one sided as he never really spent any time with her but I think he at least was sincere in what he said. And then there's poor Ames who to me, looks like he's living on Space Mountain.

So that's my answer as to why JP is being shown, quite mildly I might add, as being a "jealous" guy..... it's show the audience that her F1 truly did care for her, Ashley Hebert and wanted to spend time with her and only her. Now that's real life... cause nobody wants to share a girlfriend or boyfriend regardless if that's the format of a reality show or not. Once feelings get involved, all the head knowledge about the process goes out the door - unless you're not that invested, then you sit around and chat about what you had for breakfast.

Major LOL to the bolded!!!!

I do think he's adorable, but I have a feeling that he may still have been recovering from his concussion... and if he's had previous ones, it can take a few weeks to recover from them.

by sjcaligurl Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:33 am

vivalameagx3 wrote:
northernviewer wrote:Everybody keeps talking about the "never-before-seen jealous F1 edit"... well maybe it's because we have a "never-before-seen" lead that's been made fun of in PI's by a contestant, and then led on with a dot dot dot cause the guy was a total moron, and who was walked out on by a few contestants who made it clear that they really weren't into her, or one who's been roasted and her small breasts made fun of and humiliated because she was the Bach'ette .... and the list goes on and on about how insecure Ashley is that the guys don't really like her and wish the lead was anybody but her. JP at least cares about her and shows it... cause I haven't seen any sincere interest shown in her by any of the other guys. They seem more interested in being buds and hanging out in the frat house and teasing JP because they know he cares. Ryan cared about her but it was really one sided as he never really spent any time with her but I think he at least was sincere in what he said. And then there's poor Ames who to me, looks like he's living on Space Mountain.

So that's my answer as to why JP is being shown, quite mildly I might add, as being a "jealous" guy..... it's show the audience that her F1 truly did care for her, Ashley Hebert and wanted to spend time with her and only her. Now that's real life... cause nobody wants to share a girlfriend or boyfriend regardless if that's the format of a reality show or not. Once feelings get involved, all the head knowledge about the process goes out the door - unless you're not that invested, then you sit around and chat about what you had for breakfast.

Major LOL to the bolded!!!!

I'm still trying to figure out what planet Ames is from but now that he's talking more, he seems validly interested. I can't wait for the MTA to see if they show his elevator scene w/Ashley. Bet that shut JP up for a second or two. LOL! That was certainly a hotter scene than she had with some of the guys who were ranting and raving over her Bentley confession. He seemed to be the most coherent ever at the 3on1 date when he was talking to Lucas. I think he's drunk most of the other times.

by Guest Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:34 am

sjcaligurl wrote:
Bloomers wrote:
sjcaligurl wrote:I don't want to blow JP's reaction out of proportion either way. It is what it is. In watching it (and going back and seeing different parts of that episode more than once) I just saw a normal guy. Most of it was him thinking out loud and being presented in voice overs.

I'll say it again that I found it rather comical because I know he is saying things that many other people, including former cast members, have felt if, indeed, they have really fallen for the lead.

No matter what you sign up for, once you in love with someone, you aren't going to feel good and happy with that person still dating and kissing other people. I think he was totally correct in saying/feeling the things he said and felt.

I do think he's being selfish in a way because he honestly believes, for whatever reason, that he is the only guy in the house who loves Ashley and who is right for Ashley. Heck, he said that in Episode 4 when they were asking him about Ryan. I think he probably has been trying to intimidate the other guys by making them feel bad if they don't really like her/are in it just for the competition by letting them know that he really cares. I'd be pissed too if there were a bunch of 'gamers' in the house when I really liked someone.

He wasn't punching walls and breaking lamps and when the guys wanted to discuss the date in front of him, he left. That was a good thing. He shouldn't have to listen. It's not normal to deal with that and, yes, it is a mind F to have to deal with that when he is feeling the way he is feeling. He is internalizing it and taking it personally because he is personally invested and thinks he found someone he wants to spend his life with.

I think Ben is as cute and sweet as he can be. But, really, what kind of geek would tell a woman: "I'm teetering on the edge of being in love with you but don't want to say it until you meet my family and they give me their opinion of you" or "I'll be in love with you once my mother and sister like you. " Why not just keep it to yourself if you aren't ready. Was he trying to buy himself an HTD? I also think he may be in a bit of denial. He really thought that Lucas was going to get the rose on that 3on1? He should really be as afraid of JP as JP is afraid of him but he's talking himself into the opposite. JP is in touch with his feelings/emotions and, admittedly, Ben has been suppressing his for years.

Obviously JP and Ashley's Hong Kong date was a turning point. She confessed about Bentley. He opened up about his ex. The made out at dinner, on the tram, on the roof ... I mean you really couldn't have fit a sheet of paper between them. As far as we know, she hasn't been that close to anyone else. Ben is still holding her hand like they are at the 5th grade dance and kissing her like he's doing it through jail bars.

I think Ashley was surprised by JP because she'd seen him as her rock and protector and when he just spilled out how terrible his week was dealing with her going out with the other guys and kissing Lucas in front of her, I think she realized that he really was in love with her. I think she still has to keep her mind/heart open but is basically decided. I think JP had it right when he said that the elimination of Lucas w/o the cocktail party was just a continuation of her elimination of Ryan halfway through his date. I think he sees it as a sign that she is as ready to be done with the process as he is. While I don't get why he would tell Ames that he was surprised by the elimination, you could tell he was very happy as he saw Lucas as some kind of contender for some reason.

Anyhow, despite whatever polished edit people think the F1 is supposed to have, I am glad that finally, they are showing what really goes on it lots of minds in that situation. I think he was saying out loud what a lot of guys have felt.

I would say that JP is simply competitive. He wants Ashley for himself, period. It hasn't got a whole lot to do what he thinks about the other guys. He just wants her, he is going after her, and he wants the rest of them to get the heck out of his way.

The problem some of us are having is that we have NEVER seen this edited in an F1 before.

What do these traits all of a sudden mean? Do they suddenly mean Fleiss and Co have decided to finally get real and show us what these guys truly feel after 7 seasons, and JP is the one that gets to display it - warts and all? Fleiss?

Or, are we seeing a mini-psychological study of JP in action? He himself told us he was impatient and tended to get frustrated and wanted his way, was it? You can add highly competitive and jealous to that as well. If this is so, to what end or purpose if this?

Or, is all of this just for our merriment and enjoyment? Am I supposed to take away from this that JP is the typical cut-throat New Yorker out for #1? :shock: :shock:

I might actually agree with you. I do think that JP wants Ashley for himself as he should. Ryan said the same thing. When there are 24 other guys out of the gate, you are in a competition. If you are one who is popular in high school, college, in the workplace ... men compete for you all of the time until one of them gets you. I've always said that the reason why the Bachelorette works better than the Bachelor is because when guys have too many choices, it goes to their heads and they cannot pick or always feel as though they may have missed out on something better or that if 25 women wanted them, there must be at least 100 other sets of 25 women who want them too. However, when they duke it out with 24 other men and get chosen, they feel like they are actually worth something and that they've won something. Heck, didn't guys used to have duels over women? Didn't women used to be part of the spoils of war? LOL! It's pretty base level but it's kinda been the rule since the beginning of time.

Anger, jealousy and sadness are not human traits that feel good ... but they exist and as long as they aren't the dominant trait, are a part of who we all are.

I guess I have to ask: who doesn't feel the emotion of jealousy sometimes? There probably are some people but the vast majority of us do experience it sometimes, because we're only human. Nobody's perfect and sometimes we let things get the better of us, so in real life I think it would be too simple to write someone off for showing moments of it. It seems to me that what shows the content of one's character and temperament in that moment, is not how one feels but how one acts on the feeling.

I just didn't see anything wrong in the way JP grappled with that moment. We aren't even sure if he actually "stormed out" or not, but if he did leave and give himself a time out before he lost his cool and started throwing things, or punches or even throwing lots of mean and hateful words out at people, what is wrong in that? That is what I'm not understanding about the whole thing.

Compare that to Lucas outburst - and, yes, I absolutely do think they are comparable. If anything, Lucas had far less justification for his reaction and was far more vocal about it. Furthermore, JP honestly and reasonably addressed his feelings with Ashley - Lucas didn't even have the guts to do that. If he had, I wonder if she would have taken the rose back?

I'm curious: In what way is JP highly competitive?

Bloomers wrote:

I would say that JP is simply competitive. He wants Ashley for himself, period. It hasn't got a whole lot to do what he thinks about the other guys. He just wants her, he is going after her, and he wants the rest of them to get the heck out of his way.

The problem some of us are having is that we have NEVER seen this edited in an F1 before.

What do these traits all of a sudden mean? Do they suddenly mean Fleiss and Co have decided to finally get real and show us what these guys truly feel after 7 seasons, and JP is the one that gets to display it - warts and all? Fleiss?
Or, are we seeing a mini-psychological study of JP in action? He himself told us he was impatient and tended to get frustrated and wanted his way, was it? You can add highly competitive and jealous to that as well. If this is so, to what end or purpose if this?
Or, is all of this just for our merriment and enjoyment? Am I supposed to take away from this that JP is the typical cut-throat New Yorker out for #1? :shock: :shock:

Re-the bolded. I suppose this may be true, may be shown more clearly in future episodes, but I am not seeing this. What has he specifically done that is in a big way, warts and all, objectionable? If he feels like he wants the girl all to himself, then I'm guessing he's well on his way to forming an attachment with her. If he's doing something underhanded, mean or unethical to get her all to himself, then that's a whole other story - but I'm not seeing that. He's said he's impatient but up I haven't seen any real evidence of negative impatience from him. no idea

I'm just not seeing anything abnormal in his behavior. I guess this is about the jealousy, but it just didn't seem like anything unacceptable or abnormal to me. Are you thinking he doesn't care about Ashley (like Bentley) and only just wants to be the last man standing? Because I personally find that hard to believe myself. As to the edit, I'm sure no expert and this is no doubt why I always get it wrong.

But I guess I'm wondering if maybe, this storytelling might just be Fleissian v3.0. Maybe because there was a real love story early on and they wanted to distract us with pure nonsense and then when it reached a certain point just let everybody be who they are, warts and all. Probably not. But whatever is going on, it evidently isn't following any previous pattern to formula so who is to say that TPTB haven't decided to change things up. Maybe they are just embracing the fact that this model is a crapshoot and let these people be a little human, like the rest of us. The drama edits ala DB Bentley being the exception of course - they can't give up the OTT drama, evidently.

You are no doubt right and I am almost certainly wrong, but I just can't make myself see a huge deficit in any of the F4 or Ashley's behaviors. It is one thing for the couple at the end of all this (assuming there is one) to not make it in the long haul. I'm not sure I can stomach the idea though of this edit being a warning that either Ashley or JP acted in bad faith or are badly flawed people. no idea

by Alanna Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:34 am

northernviewer wrote:
Ya, I heard that too, it's sad and I feel bad for her. JP seems like a perceptive guy and maybe he picked up on that too. Sorry to his fans, but I think Grobin Twins are the ring leaders in taunting JP. First we see Ben talking about kissing her (I think we've determined he was lying) and then Dino egging him on about Ben not being home yet.... now maybe those are 2 isolated incidences but I have a feeling that they aren't.

Even if it's true that no one else wanted her but him, what does it matter? She doesn't need two boyfriends and the one she has absolutely adores her and thinks they're meant to be together. She totally melts him and he's completely smitten. She has nothing to be sad about and I'm sure she knows it.

by Guest Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:38 am

oh and haha KUMBAYA YA'LL group hug

by sjcaligurl Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:38 am

northernviewer wrote:
mnmhughes wrote:
northernviewer wrote:Everybody keeps talking about the "never-before-seen jealous F1 edit"... well maybe it's because we have a "never-before-seen" lead that's been made fun of in PI's by a contestant, and then led on with a dot dot dot cause the guy was a total moron, and who was walked out on by a few contestants who made it clear that they really weren't into her, or one who's been roasted and her small breasts made fun of and humiliated because she was the Bach'ette .... and the list goes on and on about how insecure Ashley is that the guys don't really like her and wish the lead was anybody but her. JP at least cares about her and shows it... cause I haven't seen any sincere interest shown in her by any of the other guys. They seem more interested in being buds and hanging out in the frat house and teasing JP because they know he cares. Ryan cared about her but it was really one sided as he never really spent any time with her but I think he at least was sincere in what he said. And then there's poor Ames who to me, looks like he's living on Space Mountain.

So that's my answer as to why JP is being shown, quite mildly I might add, as being a "jealous" guy..... it's show the audience that her F1 truly did care for her, Ashley Hebert and wanted to spend time with her and only her. Now that's real life... cause nobody wants to share a girlfriend or boyfriend regardless if that's the format of a reality show or not. Once feelings get involved, all the head knowledge about the process goes out the door - unless you're not that invested, then you sit around and chat about what you had for breakfast.

Yeah, I think you're on to something, especially since rumors are flowing that very few of them actually wanted her. :pinkcry:

Ya, I heard that too, it's sad and I feel bad for her. JP seems like a perceptive guy and maybe he picked up on that too. Sorry to his fans, but I think Grobin Twins are the ring leaders in taunting JP. First we see Ben talking about kissing her (I think we've determined he was lying) and then Dino egging him on about Ben not being home yet.... now maybe those are 2 isolated incidences but I have a feeling that they aren't.

Definitely agree with that. JP is still the 'runt' of the group even though he won against Mickey. Ben came in with walls up. Constantine is waiting for a lightening bolt to make him fall in love. Ben is starting to fall but thinks he's a better catch than JP for some reason. Constantine is just going along because he's the odd man out now.

Mancode Dave claimed there were only a few guys who liked Jillian. Seriously, when are there ever more than a handful on any cast? Despite Bentley, I think more guys, including some she eliminated early, were interested in her. I cannot see any of the guys who really like her now really interested in Emily or Chantal as they would have to support them financially for life. LOL!

by northernviewer Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:40 am

Alanna wrote:
northernviewer wrote:
Ya, I heard that too, it's sad and I feel bad for her. JP seems like a perceptive guy and maybe he picked up on that too. Sorry to his fans, but I think Grobin Twins are the ring leaders in taunting JP. First we see Ben talking about kissing her (I think we've determined he was lying) and then Dino egging him on about Ben not being home yet.... now maybe those are 2 isolated incidences but I have a feeling that they aren't.

Even if it's true that no one else wanted her but him, what does it matter? She doesn't need two boyfriends and the one she has absolutely adores her and thinks they're meant to be together. She totally melts him and he's completely smitten. She has nothing to be sad about and I'm sure she knows it.

I agree Alanna, but I just feel bad that she's been treated so shabbily by so many, right from the get-go. Would love to see her and JP defy the odds and make a go of this!

by Pattycake92 Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:43 am

Maybe some of the guys could see that they were fighting a losing battle because of the obvious connection with JP. So they didn't feel wanted themselves. We've had how many guys cry already? I don't buy that the majority weren't interested.

by Guest Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:45 am

sjcaligurl wrote:
northernviewer wrote:
mnmhughes wrote:
northernviewer wrote:Everybody keeps talking about the "never-before-seen jealous F1 edit"... well maybe it's because we have a "never-before-seen" lead that's been made fun of in PI's by a contestant, and then led on with a dot dot dot cause the guy was a total moron, and who was walked out on by a few contestants who made it clear that they really weren't into her, or one who's been roasted and her small breasts made fun of and humiliated because she was the Bach'ette .... and the list goes on and on about how insecure Ashley is that the guys don't really like her and wish the lead was anybody but her. JP at least cares about her and shows it... cause I haven't seen any sincere interest shown in her by any of the other guys. They seem more interested in being buds and hanging out in the frat house and teasing JP because they know he cares. Ryan cared about her but it was really one sided as he never really spent any time with her but I think he at least was sincere in what he said. And then there's poor Ames who to me, looks like he's living on Space Mountain.

So that's my answer as to why JP is being shown, quite mildly I might add, as being a "jealous" guy..... it's show the audience that her F1 truly did care for her, Ashley Hebert and wanted to spend time with her and only her. Now that's real life... cause nobody wants to share a girlfriend or boyfriend regardless if that's the format of a reality show or not. Once feelings get involved, all the head knowledge about the process goes out the door - unless you're not that invested, then you sit around and chat about what you had for breakfast.

Yeah, I think you're on to something, especially since rumors are flowing that very few of them actually wanted her. :pinkcry:

Ya, I heard that too, it's sad and I feel bad for her. JP seems like a perceptive guy and maybe he picked up on that too. Sorry to his fans, but I think Grobin Twins are the ring leaders in taunting JP. First we see Ben talking about kissing her (I think we've determined he was lying) and then Dino egging him on about Ben not being home yet.... now maybe those are 2 isolated incidences but I have a feeling that they aren't.

Definitely agree with that. JP is still the 'runt' of the group even though he won against Mickey. Ben came in with walls up. Constantine is waiting for a lightening bolt to make him fall in love. Ben is starting to fall but thinks he's a better catch than JP for some reason. Constantine is just going along because he's the odd man out now.

Mancode Dave claimed there were only a few guys who liked Jillian. Seriously, when are there ever more than a handful on any cast? Despite Bentley, I think more guys, including some she eliminated early, were interested in her. I cannot see any of the guys who really like her now really interested in Emily or Chantal as they would have to support them financially for life. LOL!

Yup! Like Ashley said, it only takes one guy. I'm sorry but I can't help getting excited that she might have actually found her guy
seeing hearts

If she did and I see a happy and in love Ash at the ATFR that's all I could ask for heartbeat

I will wish them well and hope they make it. But whether they do in the long run or not, I intend to enjoy that love story while it lasts.

by chaslom4 Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:46 am

northernviewer wrote:
mnmhughes wrote:
northernviewer wrote:Everybody keeps talking about the "never-before-seen jealous F1 edit"... well maybe it's because we have a "never-before-seen" lead that's been made fun of in PI's by a contestant, and then led on with a dot dot dot cause the guy was a total moron, and who was walked out on by a few contestants who made it clear that they really weren't into her, or one who's been roasted and her small breasts made fun of and humiliated because she was the Bach'ette .... and the list goes on and on about how insecure Ashley is that the guys don't really like her and wish the lead was anybody but her. JP at least cares about her and shows it... cause I haven't seen any sincere interest shown in her by any of the other guys. They seem more interested in being buds and hanging out in the frat house and teasing JP because they know he cares. Ryan cared about her but it was really one sided as he never really spent any time with her but I think he at least was sincere in what he said. And then there's poor Ames who to me, looks like he's living on Space Mountain.

So that's my answer as to why JP is being shown, quite mildly I might add, as being a "jealous" guy..... it's show the audience that her F1 truly did care for her, Ashley Hebert and wanted to spend time with her and only her. Now that's real life... cause nobody wants to share a girlfriend or boyfriend regardless if that's the format of a reality show or not. Once feelings get involved, all the head knowledge about the process goes out the door - unless you're not that invested, then you sit around and chat about what you had for breakfast.

Yeah, I think you're on to something, especially since rumors are flowing that very few of them actually wanted her. :pinkcry:

Ya, I heard that too, it's sad and I feel bad for her. JP seems like a perceptive guy and maybe he picked up on that too. Sorry to his fans, but I think Grobin Twins are the ring leaders in taunting JP. First we see Ben talking about kissing her (I think we've determined he was lying) and then Dino egging him on about Ben not being home yet.... now maybe those are 2 isolated incidences but I have a feeling that they aren't.

Thank you. I have felt same way. :hidingchair

by Guest Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:52 am

Diana wrote:
Kelad9 wrote:I see Ben being quiet and not even saying anything if he's F2 whereas if JP is F2, JP will definately blow. JMO. & who would blame him?
I agree. I think if Ben walks way it's beacuse he just was heartbroken and hurt. I don't see him getting angry at Ashley.

I agree too............Ben, if he is F2, will take it as a man and walk away as a lot of other good f2's have done(Kip, Jason, and others)................JP on the other hand will really blow. He has already shown how he can act childish so if he is F2, chances are, he'll reinact the attitude and even blow up at Ashley. :yes:

by chaslom4 Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:56 am

Sorry I disagree. I don't for one minute think even if JP is F2 he would ever do or say anything that would hurt Ashley. JMO

by Sponsored content