Episode 7 - 7/11 - Discussion - Spoilers

Nativenewyorker wrote:All I can say is if we are eliminating any form of jealousy from all human interaction, then life would be very different. I think it would be lovely if everyone could be perfect and never have a smidgen of doubt or insecurity. However, being human and imperfect, we are all going to say and do things that may not reflect well on us and that we may well regret. I certainly have done any number of things and acted in ways in the past that I wish had not happened. I just choose to accept that as part of my life's journey, try to learn what I can from it and move on.

I did not try to make JP's jealousy something positive and glorious. Rather I tried to understand what was going on inside him and the situation which he was in that brought on so much tension, anxiety and insecurity. This idea that one should never feel a negative emotion, never have any insecurity and doubt, simply is not realistic.

It is easy to judge from afar, as if one can be sure that they would never feel or act that way. You don't know until you walk in that person's shoes. Holding someone else to one's own personal code of behavior, is also quite unfair. People don't all behave the same or deal with situations alike. Deciding what is appropriate or right or good and what is bad or wrong or inappropriate, is imposing oneself on another person.

JP was being human. I am not about to jump all over him for that. If some feel that he should have just smiled his way through it and pretended that everything was just fine and dandy, let me just say that I do not subscribe to that belief. JP was honest and showed his feelings. His vulnerability and fear was revealed to a nationwide audience. I would rather see that any day of the week than see some robotic display of so-called acceptable behavior defined by others.

MaggieMae wrote:I have a great idea. Let's go back to arguing about boat railings, the proper way to hold hands while on a date and whether the sun does indeed set in the west.

8)

ironcat wrote:

mnmhughes wrote:

anders wrote:No person has ever walked away at F2. Not yet anyway.

I understand that. I was referring to the fact that every F2 has to face that moment when they realize they were, essentially, led on.

If Ben is F2, and if gets angry and blasts Ashley for having led him on, I wonder if he will be branded as someone with dangerous anger management issues as well. (Yes, I went there!) :winkie:

Bloomers wrote:

sjcaligurl wrote:I don't want to blow JP's reaction out of proportion either way. It is what it is. In watching it (and going back and seeing different parts of that episode more than once) I just saw a normal guy. Most of it was him thinking out loud and being presented in voice overs.

I'll say it again that I found it rather comical because I know he is saying things that many other people, including former cast members, have felt if, indeed, they have really fallen for the lead.

No matter what you sign up for, once you in love with someone, you aren't going to feel good and happy with that person still dating and kissing other people. I think he was totally correct in saying/feeling the things he said and felt.

I do think he's being selfish in a way because he honestly believes, for whatever reason, that he is the only guy in the house who loves Ashley and who is right for Ashley. Heck, he said that in Episode 4 when they were asking him about Ryan. I think he probably has been trying to intimidate the other guys by making them feel bad if they don't really like her/are in it just for the competition by letting them know that he really cares. I'd be pissed too if there were a bunch of 'gamers' in the house when I really liked someone.

He wasn't punching walls and breaking lamps and when the guys wanted to discuss the date in front of him, he left. That was a good thing. He shouldn't have to listen. It's not normal to deal with that and, yes, it is a mind F to have to deal with that when he is feeling the way he is feeling. He is internalizing it and taking it personally because he is personally invested and thinks he found someone he wants to spend his life with.

I think Ben is as cute and sweet as he can be. But, really, what kind of geek would tell a woman: "I'm teetering on the edge of being in love with you but don't want to say it until you meet my family and they give me their opinion of you" or "I'll be in love with you once my mother and sister like you. " Why not just keep it to yourself if you aren't ready. Was he trying to buy himself an HTD? I also think he may be in a bit of denial. He really thought that Lucas was going to get the rose on that 3on1? He should really be as afraid of JP as JP is afraid of him but he's talking himself into the opposite. JP is in touch with his feelings/emotions and, admittedly, Ben has been suppressing his for years.

Obviously JP and Ashley's Hong Kong date was a turning point. She confessed about Bentley. He opened up about his ex. The made out at dinner, on the tram, on the roof ... I mean you really couldn't have fit a sheet of paper between them. As far as we know, she hasn't been that close to anyone else. Ben is still holding her hand like they are at the 5th grade dance and kissing her like he's doing it through jail bars.

I think Ashley was surprised by JP because she'd seen him as her rock and protector and when he just spilled out how terrible his week was dealing with her going out with the other guys and kissing Lucas in front of her, I think she realized that he really was in love with her. I think she still has to keep her mind/heart open but is basically decided. I think JP had it right when he said that the elimination of Lucas w/o the cocktail party was just a continuation of her elimination of Ryan halfway through his date. I think he sees it as a sign that she is as ready to be done with the process as he is. While I don't get why he would tell Ames that he was surprised by the elimination, you could tell he was very happy as he saw Lucas as some kind of contender for some reason.

Anyhow, despite whatever polished edit people think the F1 is supposed to have, I am glad that finally, they are showing what really goes on it lots of minds in that situation. I think he was saying out loud what a lot of guys have felt.

I would say that JP is simply competitive. He wants Ashley for himself, period. It hasn't got a whole lot to do what he thinks about the other guys. He just wants her, he is going after her, and he wants the rest of them to get the heck out of his way.

The problem some of us are having is that we have NEVER seen this edited in an F1 before.

What do these traits all of a sudden mean? Do they suddenly mean Fleiss and Co have decided to finally get real and show us what these guys truly feel after 7 seasons, and JP is the one that gets to display it - warts and all? Fleiss?

Or, are we seeing a mini-psychological study of JP in action? He himself told us he was impatient and tended to get frustrated and wanted his way, was it? You can add highly competitive and jealous to that as well. If this is so, to what end or purpose if this?

Or, is all of this just for our merriment and enjoyment? Am I supposed to take away from this that JP is the typical cut-throat New Yorker out for #1? :shock: :shock:

mnmhughes wrote:

MaggieMae wrote:I have a great idea. Let's go back to arguing about boat railings, the proper way to hold hands while on a date and whether the sun does indeed set in the west.

8)

Bloomers wrote:

I would say that JP is simply competitive. He wants Ashley for himself, period. It hasn't got a whole lot to do what he thinks about the other guys. He just wants her, he is going after her, and he wants the rest of them to get the heck out of his way.

The problem some of us are having is that we have NEVER seen this edited in an F1 before.

What do these traits all of a sudden mean? Do they suddenly mean Fleiss and Co have decided to finally get real and show us what these guys truly feel after 7 seasons, and JP is the one that gets to display it - warts and all? Fleiss?
Or, are we seeing a mini-psychological study of JP in action? He himself told us he was impatient and tended to get frustrated and wanted his way, was it? You can add highly competitive and jealous to that as well. If this is so, to what end or purpose if this?
Or, is all of this just for our merriment and enjoyment? Am I supposed to take away from this that JP is the typical cut-throat New Yorker out for #1? :shock: :shock:

northernviewer wrote:Everybody keeps talking about the "never-before-seen jealous F1 edit"... well maybe it's because we have a "never-before-seen" lead that's been made fun of in PI's by a contestant, and then led on with a dot dot dot cause the guy was a total moron, and who was walked out on by a few contestants who made it clear that they really weren't into her, or one who's been roasted and her small breasts made fun of and humiliated because she was the Bach'ette .... and the list goes on and on about how insecure Ashley is that the guys don't really like her and wish the lead was anybody but her. JP at least cares about her and shows it... cause I haven't seen any sincere interest shown in her by any of the other guys. They seem more interested in being buds and hanging out in the frat house and teasing JP because they know he cares. Ryan cared about her but it was really one sided as he never really spent any time with her but I think he at least was sincere in what he said. And then there's poor Ames who to me, looks like he's living on Space Mountain.

So that's my answer as to why JP is being shown, quite mildly I might add, as being a "jealous" guy..... it's show the audience that her F1 truly did care for her, Ashley Hebert and wanted to spend time with her and only her. Now that's real life... cause nobody wants to share a girlfriend or boyfriend regardless if that's the format of a reality show or not. Once feelings get involved, all the head knowledge about the process goes out the door - unless you're not that invested, then you sit around and chat about what you had for breakfast.

Healthy jealously can be beneficial when it is intended to protect and maintain a relationship, according to "Focus on the Family". It is typically regarded as a sign of commitment and caring for another individual.

Romantic jealousy is common because strong emotional bonds leave partners open to potential extreme heartbreak.

Jealousy is an innate survival mechanism that is necessary in maintaining intimate relationships, according to "Psychology Today". Jealousy is a natural reaction to a real or imagined threat to an intimate relationship.

A little jealousy is normal and can be a good thing, says relationship expert Helen Fisher in "O, The Oprah Magazine." Jealousy can keep your relationship's romance alive and encourage fidelity, both positive factors in a relationship.

northernviewer wrote:Everybody keeps talking about the "never-before-seen jealous F1 edit"... well maybe it's because we have a "never-before-seen" lead that's been made fun of in PI's by a contestant, and then led on with a dot dot dot cause the guy was a total moron, and who was walked out on by a few contestants who made it clear that they really weren't into her, or one who's been roasted and her small breasts made fun of and humiliated because she was the Bach'ette .... and the list goes on and on about how insecure Ashley is that the guys don't really like her and wish the lead was anybody but her. JP at least cares about her and shows it... cause I haven't seen any sincere interest shown in her by any of the other guys. They seem more interested in being buds and hanging out in the frat house and teasing JP because they know he cares. Ryan cared about her but it was really one sided as he never really spent any time with her but I think he at least was sincere in what he said. And then there's poor Ames who to me, looks like he's living on Space Mountain.

So that's my answer as to why JP is being shown, quite mildly I might add, as being a "jealous" guy..... it's show the audience that her F1 truly did care for her, Ashley Hebert and wanted to spend time with her and only her. Now that's real life... cause nobody wants to share a girlfriend or boyfriend regardless if that's the format of a reality show or not. Once feelings get involved, all the head knowledge about the process goes out the door - unless you're not that invested, then you sit around and chat about what you had for breakfast.

northernviewer wrote:Everybody keeps talking about the "never-before-seen jealous F1 edit"... well maybe it's because we have a "never-before-seen" lead that's been made fun of in PI's by a contestant, and then led on with a dot dot dot cause the guy was a total moron, and who was walked out on by a few contestants who made it clear that they really weren't into her, or one who's been roasted and her small breasts made fun of and humiliated because she was the Bach'ette .... and the list goes on and on about how insecure Ashley is that the guys don't really like her and wish the lead was anybody but her. JP at least cares about her and shows it... cause I haven't seen any sincere interest shown in her by any of the other guys. They seem more interested in being buds and hanging out in the frat house and teasing JP because they know he cares. Ryan cared about her but it was really one sided as he never really spent any time with her but I think he at least was sincere in what he said. And then there's poor Ames who to me, looks like he's living on Space Mountain.

So that's my answer as to why JP is being shown, quite mildly I might add, as being a "jealous" guy..... it's show the audience that her F1 truly did care for her, Ashley Hebert and wanted to spend time with her and only her. Now that's real life... cause nobody wants to share a girlfriend or boyfriend regardless if that's the format of a reality show or not. Once feelings get involved, all the head knowledge about the process goes out the door - unless you're not that invested, then you sit around and chat about what you had for breakfast.

mnmhughes wrote:

northernviewer wrote:Everybody keeps talking about the "never-before-seen jealous F1 edit"... well maybe it's because we have a "never-before-seen" lead that's been made fun of in PI's by a contestant, and then led on with a dot dot dot cause the guy was a total moron, and who was walked out on by a few contestants who made it clear that they really weren't into her, or one who's been roasted and her small breasts made fun of and humiliated because she was the Bach'ette .... and the list goes on and on about how insecure Ashley is that the guys don't really like her and wish the lead was anybody but her. JP at least cares about her and shows it... cause I haven't seen any sincere interest shown in her by any of the other guys. They seem more interested in being buds and hanging out in the frat house and teasing JP because they know he cares. Ryan cared about her but it was really one sided as he never really spent any time with her but I think he at least was sincere in what he said. And then there's poor Ames who to me, looks like he's living on Space Mountain.

So that's my answer as to why JP is being shown, quite mildly I might add, as being a "jealous" guy..... it's show the audience that her F1 truly did care for her, Ashley Hebert and wanted to spend time with her and only her. Now that's real life... cause nobody wants to share a girlfriend or boyfriend regardless if that's the format of a reality show or not. Once feelings get involved, all the head knowledge about the process goes out the door - unless you're not that invested, then you sit around and chat about what you had for breakfast.

Yeah, I think you're on to something, especially since rumors are flowing that very few of them actually wanted her. :pinkcry: