Episode 7 - 7/11 - Discussion - Spoilers

anders wrote:

MaggieMae wrote:Come on folks, we all know that this show is a complete "mindfuck" by now.

I wouldn't be surprised if a producer told Dino to egg JP on in order to get the response we saw because it fit into the "storyline" they're telling for him.

JP is getting the Roberto storyline - brutally hot guy, maybe a playa playa, physical chemistry with the lead but is it real?

Ben is getting the Chris L storyline - cute, sweet guy, lost a parent, focusing on business, trying to find love but afraid.

Bentley = Frank but on steriods.

really, I don't get that at all - Roberto had a quiet confidence whereas JP has been shown to be jealous - those two things are nothing alike. Aside from the fact that not all of us think that JP is hot, hot, hot....

Roberto watched as Kirk went back to Ali's room because she wasn't feeling well and he didn't even flinch. JP was upset because Ben didn't come home - it's like he's taken possession of her and nobody else is allowed to have feelings for her. Two totally different edits.

I agree.with this post ..I don't find JP hot hot hot..( My kids are older than him)..And you are right about Roberto..He was quiet..And with Trista tweeting about how JP reminds her of Ryan..That surprised me too..Because the EDITED Ryan we saw was quiet around the guys too..I sure he was so done wanting the show to be over I think all the F1 are...

Every guy is different, and it's not like they have 4 or 5 specific molds that they are determined to fit each and every one of the top guys into every season; just doesn't happen that way. They first and foremost, craft a storyline, based on the actual events on the ground and how they played out, then decide how they are going to edit each person to fit with the storyline they have. Maybe Roberto wasn't at all jealous, maybe he was, but they didn't need to show that for their storyline, because they had nasty Craig in the beginning, sleazy Justin in the middle, and psycho Frank at the end. This season, they had Bentley, who ended up annoying the viewers more than entertaining them. Once they got rid of him, there was nothing left to focus on but Ames' strange wardrobe and JP's struggle with jealousy. Of course it was going to make the edit. Otherwise Monday's episode would have been more sleep-inducing.

Regarding JP being the "hot" guy this season, obviously some people don't find him attractive at all, but the overall consensus from the viewers, if you look at polls, read other boards, or look at comments on articles, is that he is "that guy". During Ali's season, I also remember hearing some people who didn't think Roberto was all that hot either. Too sweaty, remember?

Hotmomma wrote:

anders wrote:

MaggieMae wrote:Come on folks, we all know that this show is a complete "mindfuck" by now.

I wouldn't be surprised if a producer told Dino to egg JP on in order to get the response we saw because it fit into the "storyline" they're telling for him.

JP is getting the Roberto storyline - brutally hot guy, maybe a playa playa, physical chemistry with the lead but is it real?

Ben is getting the Chris L storyline - cute, sweet guy, lost a parent, focusing on business, trying to find love but afraid.

Bentley = Frank but on steriods.

really, I don't get that at all - Roberto had a quiet confidence whereas JP has been shown to be jealous - those two things are nothing alike. Aside from the fact that not all of us think that JP is hot, hot, hot....

Roberto watched as Kirk went back to Ali's room because she wasn't feeling well and he didn't even flinch. JP was upset because Ben didn't come home - it's like he's taken possession of her and nobody else is allowed to have feelings for her. Two totally different edits.

I agree.with this post ..I don't find JP hot hot hot..( My kids are older than him)..And you are right about Roberto..He was quiet..And with Trista tweeting about how JP reminds her of Ryan..That surprised me too..Because the EDITED Ryan we saw was quiet around the guys too..I sure he was so done wanting the show to be over I think all the F1 are...

You could tell Ryan was starting to freak out towards the end. We didn't have much to compare it to as it was the first one. Trista was being somewhat of a hard ass and really wouldn't budge as far as assuring him. There are still some old clips out there on youtube. I felt bad for Ryan because he was stressing big time. I remember Bob making that "If she is into a guy like him, she's not into me ..." type of comment.

ironcat wrote:Every guy is different, and it's not like they have 4 or 5 specific molds that they are determined to fit each and every one of the top guys into every season; just doesn't happen that way. They first and foremost, craft a storyline, based on the actual events on the ground how they played out, then decide how they are going to edit each person to fit with the storyline they have. Maybe Roberto wasn't at all jealous, maybe he was, but they didn't need to show that for their storyline, because they had nasty Craig in the beginning, sleazy Justin in the middle, and psycho Frank at the end. This season, they had Bentley, who ended up annoying the viewers more than entertaining them. Once they got rid of him, there was nothing left to focus on but Ames' strange wardrobe and JP's struggle with jealousy. Of course it was going to make the edit. Otherwise Monday's episode would have been sleep-inducing.

Regarding JP being the "hot" guy this season, obviously some people don't find him attractive at all, but the overall consensus from the viewers, if you look at polls, read other boards, or look at comments on articles, is that he is "that guy". During Ali's season, I also remember hearing some people who didn't think Roberto was all that hot either. Too sweaty, remember?

it was sleep inducing anyway. Or maybe it was just me, I can't get into this season, even the Bent drama bored me, really it frustrated me more than bored me - but at F6 it's time to get down to brass tacks and leave the drama behind. I sure hope this next episode leaves all that mess out and focuses on the relationships/non-relationships Ash has with the 4 men remaining.

The other stuff was too much. I DVR it and watch after my guy goes to work, which isn't till it's over. Every Monday night my 13 year old son just shakes his head and asks me, "Does she ever do anything but cry and talk about Bentley." Pretty bad if he notices.....cause he doesn't watch it with me. He conveniently finds something else to do!! This is the only place I can come to discuss all this "romantic crap." LOL

anders wrote:

ironcat wrote:Every guy is different, and it's not like they have 4 or 5 specific molds that they are determined to fit each and every one of the top guys into every season; just doesn't happen that way. They first and foremost, craft a storyline, based on the actual events on the ground how they played out, then decide how they are going to edit each person to fit with the storyline they have. Maybe Roberto wasn't at all jealous, maybe he was, but they didn't need to show that for their storyline, because they had nasty Craig in the beginning, sleazy Justin in the middle, and psycho Frank at the end. This season, they had Bentley, who ended up annoying the viewers more than entertaining them. Once they got rid of him, there was nothing left to focus on but Ames' strange wardrobe and JP's struggle with jealousy. Of course it was going to make the edit. Otherwise Monday's episode would have been sleep-inducing.

Regarding JP being the "hot" guy this season, obviously some people don't find him attractive at all, but the overall consensus from the viewers, if you look at polls, read other boards, or look at comments on articles, is that he is "that guy". During Ali's season, I also remember hearing some people who didn't think Roberto was all that hot either. Too sweaty, remember?

it was sleep inducing anyway. Or maybe it was just me, I can't get into this season, even the Bent drama bored me, really it frustrated me more than bored me - but at F6 it's time to get down to brass tacks and leave the drama behind. I sure hope this next episode leaves all that mess out and focuses on the relationships/non-relationships Ash has with the 4 men remaining.

Anders, I edited my post to say "more sleep-inducing", mkay?

ironcat wrote:Every guy is different, and it's not like they have 4 or 5 specific molds that they are determined to fit each and every one of the top guys into every season; just doesn't happen that way. They first and foremost, craft a storyline, based on the actual events on the ground and how they played out, then decide how they are going to edit each person to fit with the storyline they have. Maybe Roberto wasn't at all jealous, maybe he was, but they didn't need to show that for their storyline, because they had nasty Craig in the beginning, sleazy Justin in the middle, and psycho Frank at the end. This season, they had Bentley, who ended up annoying the viewers more than entertaining them. Once they got rid of him, there was nothing left to focus on but Ames' strange wardrobe and JP's struggle with jealousy. Of course it was going to make the edit. Otherwise Monday's episode would have been more sleep-inducing.

Regarding JP being the "hot" guy this season, obviously some people don't find him attractive at all, but the overall consensus from the viewers, if you look at polls, read other boards, or look at comments on articles, is that he is "that guy". During Ali's season, I also remember hearing some people who didn't think Roberto was all that hot either. Too sweaty, remember?

This is so true. There is nothing else. This week they had to manufacture a "storm out" session which thanks to cupcakes, come to find out never really happened. They are taking a flaw in someone and turning it dramatic for what? Ratings? Is really the only doubt they can cast on JP ones that they need to mostly fabricate? They already used his "group dates suck" line oy... I think I have heard it 3 times now.

Anywho my guess is... this week they needed to bring Ben to the forefront and take JP down a few pegs. I guess creating storm out sessions was the only way they could accomplish this.

You're right Noob, and then both Chris and Ashley defended him in their blogs even though a lot of the drama was largely manufactured, and he honestly and lovingly talked through it with her in the actual episode. Everything in Cupcake's real relationship seems just fine to me. :smooch:

Ok.. so are we done beating the dead horse? TBTB got what they wanted with this edit, which was to distract us from what's really going on. Let's put our focus back on the real story and sleuthing. This horse is dead... dead... dead..

ironcat wrote:

Bloomers wrote:

Pattycake92 wrote:But is it unattractive to Ashley is the real question? Sorry horse! Lol

We are the ones watching the show, so we are the ones who have to decide if it is attractive imo? We are discussing the edit here?

Bloomers, let me ask you a hypothetical question. If JP was the one who Ashley chose, do you think that TPTB would be more prone to edit out JP's jealousy in order to "protect" the image of the F1, or would they be more likely to have included it for drama, if they felt it would make the episode more interesting? In other words, which is more important to them, in your opinion, giving the F1 a clean edit, or creating a "better" show?

Hi ironcat! You have asked me, but I don't think people want to know what I think; however, for whatever it is worth, it is...

First and foremost, I watch this show to try and figure out who is F1. I can't do anything about who the lead chooses. In fact, in retrospect, I think the lead has often perhaps chosen the wrong one! The fact is, though, that the thrill for me is in trying to deduce the winner, such as that is...
To do that, I cannot let myself get wrapped all up romantically in the love story because as the cliche' has it, "You can't see the forest for the trees."

This show has gotten increasingly predictable, and this season takes the jackpot. JP was F1 when he walked out of the limo, and I said that several weeks ago. When we cleared the smoke that was swirling around Bentley, there stood JP in Ep. 3 ( with all of the other F1s). When I looked at the original limo exit order, JP and Emily were right there together, and when they were filmed, they were right there together.
Bingo, bingo, bingo....
JP "comforts" Ashley in his pajamas? Bingo, bingo, bingo.....
JP wears the tux to Ashley's wedding gown? bingo, bingo, bingo....

Now....what do I think about the edit JP is getting? What do I think about the edit Ashley is getting as well?

Here is the crux, and I have never made any secret about this. I cut to the quick about it. While the edit adds to the drama and the entertainment, I have seen way too many seasons where the edit points forward and indicates the future of the relationship in real life.

Here is where I will digress to last season where I continually indicated that the edit was wonky. Something wasn't right. Chantal was supposed to be F1. RS said they were engaged and happy, but Chantal's edit was that she was crying in every episode and jealous which didn't predict a happy relationship.
Brad's relationship with Emily was WEIRD< WEIRD< WEIRD!!!! They hardly touched, they didn't communicate much -"that's nice," she led, and he followed. Even later when the edit showed a definite turn in Emily's favor, the edit still showed a lack of flow between them. It showed problems, problems, problems.
What we saw that explained the demise of their relationship was foreshadowed in the edit of their season.

Now, we are told that Ashley is engaged to JP and is very happy, but I see an edit that has had signs of PROBLEMS that go beyond just providing drama. I look at Trista's season which I watched twice, (once regulary and once on cable) and regardless of what she says, Ryan was edited as quiet and a little insecure and frustrated at the end because he did not know where he stood, but he was not impatient, jealous, or possessive.
Likewise, we didn't see a whiney, jealous or even cursing Roberto. He was just "too hot", and they tried to give the impression that he "might" be a player, but it was a perhaps, not a fact.

Now, I think what is happening is that we have gotten the edit we are getting because the producers think that a "butterfly" Ashley - edited as indecisive - is not really ready to settle down in life to a commited relationship. Chris Harrison had to talk her around to admitting she was in love with Brad - which she wasn't. We saw she wasn't ready to move to Austin. I think Ashley has things she wants to do in life. We know she tried out for So You Think You Can Dance. There is talk about Dancing With the Stars....
On the other hand, we have a 34 year old JP who has been around the block several times and who is most ready to settle down. I think when Ashley wants to do other things, it is going to clash with JP's wanting to settle down, and that is when the jealousy and impatience, etc. will kick in. I think that JP's mom is also going to foreshadow this in her edit at the Hometown when she worries about him getting hurt again. The other girl wasn't ready to settle down either.....
I think this relationship will have problems, and this is why we are seeing the edit we have seen.

Somebody wrote this post somewhere. I copied it and was going to respond, but I got called away, and then lost where it was. However, the post captures what I think the edit is trying to say about Ashley and the relationship....

Bear in mind that it doesn't matter what we think actually took place with Bentley because we can't prove it; what we have to go by here is what the edit is trying to show us which is important because they are trying to tell us a story from their point of view.


I'm having a hard enough time wrapping my head around the fact that Ashley is engaged in the first place after the whole Bentley crappola stunt she pulled.
So as of the begining of episode 6 she was still moping about Bentley and wanted to get her "closure". By the end of episode 6 (more than half way through the season) she is "free" of Bentley and able to move on and find a forever love with someone. Right.

Now episode 7 leaves us to wrap our heads around either the fact that Ben is her forever love during her 1 on 1 date OR that the guy who has been displaying shades of jealousy is the man for her. I would say both are pretty much a strech at this moment.
Yeah - I think TPTB need to put up a enormous sign in huge bold letters pointing to the F1 for us to be able to interpret their clue.

Why oh why can I not find that sarcasm emoticon when I need it ![/quote]

Thanks for answering my question, Bloomers. Not sure I agree with everything, but you may be right, only time will tell. I just feel that regardless of whether JP is F1 or F2, including the jealousy bit (and perhaps even ramping up the extent of it via the editing) was the only choice the producers had in terms of trying to put together an interesting show this season. These guys (and Ashley) are just not giving them enough craziness to work with, outside of the Bentley stuff (which they may have had to pull the plug on early because it pissed off so many viewers).

It reminds me of a comment CH made about how this group of men were more mature and professional, and weren't getting into a lot of "exploits" in the house like past contestants did. He made it sound like a positive, but I suspect that TPTB were very disappointed, and went looking in other directions for the crazy as a result.