Re: Nick Viall - Bachelorette 10 - Discussion - Thread #7

[stuckinsc]

(I also doubt he WAS courted; no reports of a personal trainer sent to Chicago, right?)

I have the strongest doubts I can have (short of MF telling me the truth) that he was courted in any serious way by the show (but that doesn't mean hints weren't dropped to make him think they might be courting him - to get him to do something).

I think we've all seen the opening scene where CH meets with the new lead and says "Last season the world saw you get your heart broken by XXX, so how do you now feel about being The Bachelor/Bachelorette?" and the lead says "Yes but I know that the process works and I am SOOO ready to find love". And most viewers buy this hook line and sinker.

In Nick's case though what viewers saw was that he couldn't let go after being sent home by Andi and was still trying to meet with her, wrote a letter and in general was still carrying a torch. It's just too much heavy lifting to get the typical viewer to believe that Nick would be ready to actually be The Bachelor and they know that.

I personally don't think the time issue was the main reason, because, unlike the Bachelorette which has an almost immediate turnaround, the season doesn't start airing (yes, it tapes earlier, but I don't think most viewers think about that) until January, and that's a good 5 months to "heal".  I just think Nick is still too controversial/polarizing a "character" for the producers to want to "go there", especially when they already had what they considered to be a very viable alternative with Chris.

IMO, if Nick had been the fan favorite, with 70-80% of the female audience oohing and aahing over how this poor, adorable, hunky gentlemanly guy got his heart broken, and how much he deserves a chance at love (ie, if he were Chris L), they would have taken him in a hot minute.   

Nick to me is no more brokenhearted then Ben was and certainly no more controversial then Brad 2.0. I also agree that in both cases they didn't have a more viable alternative. I would have liked Ryan P, but apparently he annoyed a lot of people with his chipper attitude. This season Chris or Marcus (pre-BiP) or maybe Marquel (though he has said he doesn't want it) are viable alternatives, so reason to go with the more controversy or heartbreak route.

I actually felt the producer to Milwaukee, was a bit of a test for reaction to Nick for the bachelor. Right until he asked Andi the question he may have been viable, but that made it pretty hard to do with less baggage alternatives.

[stuckinsc]

^^ Reid went on BP.  Brooks is going on BIP.  Puppet shows.

I know.  Both are strange for them.  As I recall Chris L did not want Bachelor, Reid turned it down.  I don't think Brooks turned it down though, they just wanted to go with Juan Pablo, probably because Brooks was too quirky.  And Nick, too, is quirky and not for everyone.  But he too could have not been interested.

MF chose Juan Pablo, imo, to deflect heat from a law suit brought on ABC/Next Entertainment for never choosing a racially diverse bachelor.  Had little or nothing to do with Brooks. 

They are/were supporting cast not the stars. Brooks is on only 1 episode of BIP. I basically forgot all about Reid's appearance on BP - I was surprised he did it.

There are stars on these shows?     Haha, I know what you mean.  I had to think back about Reid's appearance, too.

Speculation is that TPTB wanted Zak, but he had started dating his girlfriend who he now lives with and said no. I think JPG was to detract from the lawsuit and because Brooks was the villian for not wanting Des, and Drew as sweet as he is, was not what they wanted for a lead. I like Drew, but with he and Amy as a couple, I could see that Drew may have lacked the spark for a lead. Who else did they have Michael the lawyer? No thanks Andi the lawyer was bad enough.

It is a toss up for me on the retreads. Never liked Jason the poor single dad. Jilly was awesome both times. Jake was rotten both times. Ali was annoying to me both times. I loved Brad both times (wanted him to run from Emily though). Ashley is one who changed my mind, she was kind of whiny during Brad's season until the best fantasy date ever when she decided not to play the game and say she wanted to move to Austin or be Brad's wife. I loved it. She was the best bachelorette in my opinion. Ben was okay on Ashley's season, but a mess in his season, he was terrible at faking interest with anyone he wasn't into. Emily was annoying from the moment she left the limo and continues to annoy me today. Sean was sweet on Emily's season and then showed a great sense of humor on his season. I go through moments now where I like him less, but overall he is still pretty good. Des was a wounded bird on Sean's season and the same on her own. Chris was the best thing that ever happened to Des. I am so happy this show helped her to find him. He really is a one of a kind. JPG was nothing on Des's season and then surprisingly won me over on his season. He had one of the worst cast of women ever in my opinion, but I love Nikki and felt he made a great choice. Watching BiP now, I have even grown to appreciate Clare and can see why he kept her as long as he did. I liked Andi okay until her dad and her HTD with JPG. Since then I have been unimpressed with the spoiled princess.

I look forward to Chris. I find him attractive and love his voice. His family was awesome. I am nervous, I didn't love him at the MTA and I wonder why they hid him so much on the bachelorette.

Since this is the Nick thread. I would love to see Nick on my tv again. Team Nick and JJ for Amazing Race! I would hate to see Nick as the bachelor. As Kasha has pointed out, TPTB love to use your weaknesses against you. He would have had to endure some really awful group dates, and just tons more stuff. He is also not everyone's cup of tea, I love his humor, but I don't know that it translate well to everyone. So I am personally happy he isn't the bachelor.

[happygolucky]

So "I would be flattered" was perceived as Nick considering the idea of being The Bach?
OK ... my take on it ...
It is flattering if TPTB considers you for a LEAD.
Even more once they offer you ... a DEAL.
Because the franchise of that much TV-success when offering you that important role are basically making a business deal. They are showing the interest of making you their new business partner. Which means they respect you, but most importantly, they value that you'll be a good investment in their future, by bringing new viewers, keeping the old one, add to the value of the show and bring money in the house.
Sounds so romantic.   
So yeah, it's flattering ... to know that someone who has been in this business of "image projections", "game of the illusion", "high quality light entertainment" for long ... thinks that you are a person who can hold it together ... the game from start to finish, a play of each week through the filming, to be a good sport before, during and after, despite knowing that this business makes you and breaks you by their likings, meaning they let you in and kick you out for the entertainment purpose any time they want, so with the deal, they are really saying that they see you a a great spoke person, one who will know how to advertize the show, speak highly of them, praise them and give them all the credit they deserve (because it's all about the image they need to maintain), that they see you a lead who will know how to juggle many relationships and if not, at least pretend, so yes, the acting skills and being a good salesperson helps ... because at the end, it's you first-hand, to be selling the story to the audience ... and in all of that you need to be believable.
So it's flattering, tho' I wouldn't do it for a million, let alone for a quarter of or less, but it's not about the money ...it's about your (mine) freedom.
By signing that deal ... you're selling yourself.
Literally selling yourself.
And I'm not going to play a moral advocate here about this ... because frankly, each of us has own reasons to be inclined to accept or not ... but the real question would be:
What do you gain from it and is it worth it?
For someone who is happy with their existing life, they might not need any change... someone else might want to shake things up ... so at the bottom, it's up to your current state of mind and whether you're satisfied with the life you're leading.

So, I don't know what Nick really thinks about the franchise and the role of TB, but whatever the standard answer on this kind of question is, he answered as any good businessman would do.
Funny, how he answered that in his 3 TV-interviews ... but he is quoted in the press media as if he would be talking to them directly. Yeah right ... I just love good media manipulation, love it ... then of course each manipulation brings the repercussions ... but the media isn't guilty of anything ... they just report what's been going around ... it's up to us, yeah people, it's all our fault.  

[stuckinsc]

happy, I love your posts.   

[Kashathediva]

So "I would be flattered" was perceived as Nick considering the idea of being The Bach?
OK ... my take on it ...
It is flattering if TPTB considers you for a LEAD.
Even more once they offer you ... a DEAL.
Because the franchise of that much TV-success when offering you that important role are basically making a business deal. They are showing the interest of making you their new business partner. Which means they respect you, but most importantly, they value that you'll be a good investment in their future, by bringing new viewers, keeping the old one, add to the value of the show and bring money in the house.
Sounds so romantic.   
So yeah, it's flattering ... to know that someone who has been in this business of "image projections", "game of the illusion", "high quality light entertainment" for long ... thinks that you are a person who can hold it together ... the game from start to finish, a play of each week through the filming, to be a good sport before, during and after, despite knowing that this business makes you and breaks you by their likings, meaning they let you in and kick you out for the entertainment purpose any time they want, so with the deal, they are really saying that they see you a a great spoke person, one who will know how to advertize the show, speak highly of them, praise them and give them all the credit they deserve (because it's all about the image they need to maintain), that they see you a lead who will know how to juggle many relationships and if not, at least pretend, so yes, the acting skills and being a good salesperson helps ... because at the end, it's you first-hand, to be selling the story to the audience ... and in all of that you need to be believable.
So it's flattering, tho' I wouldn't do it for a million, let alone for a quarter of or less, but it's not about the money ...it's about your (mine) freedom.
By signing that deal ... you're selling yourself.
Literally selling yourself.
And I'm not going to play a moral advocate here about this ... because frankly, each of us has own reasons to be inclined to accept or not ... but the real question would be:
What do you gain from it and is it worth it?
For someone who is happy with their existing life, they might not need any change... someone else might want to shake things up ... so at the bottom, it's up to your current state of mind and whether you're satisfied with the life you're leading.

So, I don't know what Nick really thinks about the franchise and the role of TB, but whatever the standard answer on this kind of question is, he answered as any good businessman would do.
Funny, how he answered that in his 3 TV-interviews ... but he is quoted in the press media as if he would be talking to them directly. Yeah right ... I just love good media manipulation, love it ... then of course each manipulation brings the repercussions ... but the media isn't guilty of anything ... they just report what's been going around ... it's up to us, yeah people, it's all our fault.  

The age old dilemma: Selling your soul for a pound of flesh.   

[murphy]

Happy, yes, yes, yes to everything you said. I love reading your posts and your unique insight.

[Lucas15]

So "I would be flattered" was perceived as Nick considering the idea of being The Bach?
...
So, I don't know what Nick really thinks about the franchise and the role of TB, but whatever the standard answer on this kind of question is, he answered as any good businessman would do.

To be honest the only reason I started looking into things Nick has said about being TB is because my wife is very convinced that Nick has been faking a lot of things for quite a long time and that what he really wants is to be "The Bachelor"; and to be equally honest, I don't agree with her but I started looking to see what evidence is out there to support either opinion.

IMHO those that "want" the role have a certain pattern in what they do or say and that pattern is different than those who really don't want the role. Those that do want it act a little like a politician who says "I haven't decided if I'm going to run or not yet" and behind the scenes start raising money to finance a campaign to run; their denial is somewhat disingenuous because it's obvious they are testing the water to see if there's voter support. In this case those who want the role often say that "they would be flattered to be asked but it would be a tough decision" but they don't shut down all possibility. Those who don't want the role shut down speculation rather quickly by making it clear they don't want to do it.

Jeremy Anderson wanted the role of The Bachelor very badly and he kept saying things about how flattered he would be to be asked; he was a little peeved that the show picked Jason over him. After Emily's season, Arie wanted the role and he said "That's a very tough decision and I'd really have to put a lot of thought to that. Obviously, months have gone by since the taping, but it's a very emotional journey. It'd be a very tough decision for me, but I would be flattered if they asked." Arie never said there's no way he would do it and he still wants the role; if reports are to be believed, he wants it very badly.

Chris Lambton didn't want the role and he only said ”If I was going to do it, it’d be on my own terms. I’d want to do it the right way for myself in order to end up with the perfect girl for me. If I needed to break the rules, so be it.” They kept offering him more and more money and he kept turing them down. The last figure I heard was they offered him $1,000,000 and he replied by sending them a picture of himself with Peyton - and they stopped asking.

Kasha has posted that she has heard from reliable sources that Nick doesn't want the role. I believe Kasha 100% in what she's heard and if she says the sources are reliable then I believe she is 100% correct that they are. But that makes Nick's answers in at least 3 different interviews (what he said to US Weekly, what he said in the ET video upthread, and what he said to Ali on an E! interview) somewhat disingenuous. If he's not interested then he should come right out and say he's not interested.

Of course coming right out and plainly saying he's not interested could shut down all possibility for the future and I can accept that as a good business man you should always want to keep all options open. But if that's an option that Nick wants to keep open (which IMHO is exactly what he's doing) then all I can question is when he decided to keep that option open and it would have to have been before July 29 when he started saying those things.

Now why in the world Nick - or anyone else for that matter - would ever want to be the lead on this show is beyond me; I'd rather stick a fork in my eye.

[MiaHawk]

If we believe that these contestants are mentally manipulated, edited into one dimensional characters, and behave like mannequins who mouth ITM the words the producers want them to say WHILE taping this show, MTA, and ATFR, is it really a stretch to think that they aren't (in the months following their season) STILL being used as puppets for this show? Having multiple men vying for the next lead, or appearing to be interested in the gig, makes the bachelor lead seem all that more prestigious and the lead more desirable. When the lead finishes taping they are schooled in how to answer media questions about how their season ended. So are the other contestants. Up until the finale they are under threat of confidentiality breech. After the finale there may not be a contract, but perhaps an unwritten expectation that they will answer media questions in a certain way in order to 'play nice' with MF. Chris L was clearly not interested in being the lead if it meant that he couldn't 'do it his way'. He balked at the idea of being a puppet lead, therefore I don't see it as surprising that he outright dismissed the desire to be the lead and dismissed giving the puppet-like media responses.

[Kashathediva]

Yay Chris L!!! Great example to follow.   

[Admin]

Moved from Nick Viall Fan Thread

Sorry I am responding a little late on this aspect of things, but I had to rewatch the entire season and go over the timeline of everything on SM to try and reconcile what the heck really happened this season.  I don't feel certain, but I have a hunch my theory may be correct.  So here goes.  I preface this by stating that it is no secret that I am a huge Nick fan and that is why I am here, but my comments should not be construed as criticism of Andi, as that is not my intent, and I apologize in advance if it comes across that way.

I feel confident asserting that Andi did fall in love with Nick.  He knows it, she knows it, and deep down Josh knows it too.  She was going to choose Nick as her F1 and then changed her mind at the last minute, as Nick suggested in the plane video.  But why did she change her mind?  Well, I don't think Andi chose Josh over Nick, I think Andi chose her career over Nick.  Andi actually practiced law for what, like a year, in an overworked underpaid capacity.  Her undergrad degree is in communications and her ambitions really lie in media/entertainment.  She probably went to law school because she saw it as a respected, well paid profession while her career in media/entertainment wasn't getting anywhere or perhaps she had ambitions of specializing in that sector of the legal field.

She was initially on leave from her Asst. DA job, and in choosing Nick, she probably would have returned to practicing law (in Atlanta or somewhere else) after the whirlwind of Bachlorette media commitments died down in a few months.  I don't think Nick would have necessarily been on board with having a media profession as his full time occupation for the long haul, as he is already established, successful, and well compensated in the field of Information Technology.  Andi successfully launching a new career in media/entertainment was somewhat dependent on having a fiance by her side.  Would Nick actually propose despite his fear of rejection and being embarassed?  And if so, would he sign on to join her in this new career(s) vision?

If she chose Josh, she had the best vehicle to realizing her vision, her mission, and she had little doubt that he would propose.  Furthermore, Josh was working as a Financial Services Rep, a very entry level, low paying position.  He would not hesitate to pursue a career in media/entertainment (by her side and otherwise) and probably held similar hopes for himself (and if all else failed, he would be happy to be the next Bachelor).  They were both more viable and marketable in this regard as a couple.  While spending more time with Josh, and more importantly his family (during the HTD), she saw how well she could benefit from this association.  Josh's brother Aaron was about to be drafted into the NFL and his girlfriend is a reporter with FOX29 in Philadelphia!

She had fallen hard for Nick and knew she had found The One in him.  She really did want to follow her heart and pull the trigger with Nick, which is why they connected intimately in
the Fantasy Suite (she just couldn't stop herself from experiencing that passion).  I think the timing of Aaron Murray being drafted, on was it May 9th?, is very telling and aligns perfectly with her ultimate decision to shift from Nick to Josh.  Somehow it was communicated to Josh, and then he to Andi, that Aaron was indeed drafted into the NFL, despite the supposed media blackout during this time.  It was then Andi decided to follow her head and not her heart, and made the decision to put her career before her love for Nick.  She had been pondering it for several days, which is when you see her pulling back.  Once she made up her mind for sure, she was brutal and expedient in her undertaking of what was necessary to bring it home.  Everything since then has been rewriting history, as it is corrrectly being referred to.  Andi is 27 years old, and this may have been the correct decision for her from a career standpoint.  But I suspect that down the line she will discover that Nick was one in a gazillon and she will never ever find another man who will measure up to him.  A certain type of heartache will result and linger indefinitely perhaps.

She and Josh are making the very best of the situation, at least to our eyes, and it could be a loving and fulfilling alliance which becomes a long and happy marriage, perhaps permanent.  Time will tell that story.  But by the standard definition of "the right reason" for doing the show being to find a great love, I think Andi was there for the wrong reasons.  In spite of that, she did find her great love in Nick.  Unfortunately for him (and really all three of them I think) she didn't recognize that great love as being the ultimate prize. The real tragedy to my mind.

[Kashathediva]

Thanks for bringing this over and thanks for some interesting points to ponder!

[Lucas15]

Yay Chris L!!! Great example to follow.   

If you appreciated that abbreviated story you might appreciate the fuller version even more. They pursued Chris (which we all knew) and Chris kept saying "No". Then they'd come back with a bigger offer (of course Chris was standing on principle, not trying to negotiate a better deal). Their "final" offer was $500,000 and Chris said "No" to that one also; but this was also about the time he met Peyton. I guess "final" wasn't really final because they came back with $1,000,000, to which Chris replied with the picture. Afterwards Chris once referred to Peyton as his "million dollar girl" and unless you knew the back story that might not have made much sense but if you knew the back story, Chris gave up $1,000,000 for his principles and to marry Peyton. Yay Chris L!!! indeed.

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