Episode 7 - 7/11 - Discussion - Spoilers

Weren't we told that something shocking happens during the HTDs (or something like that??) I wondered why we got so little of Ames date - just the carriage ride - I don't recall getting any caps of her meeting his fam. I'm gonna go look again. I find that part odd.

this is all we saw:

anders wrote:

chesirecat wrote:As for JP, I think he is still the frontrunner but I wasn't expecting so much jealously. I think he handled it okay though, better than Chantal did last season. I liked that he was about to explain it to her rather than just kind of have a meltdown in front of her.
!

no comparison to Chantal - she didn't get that GDR and was floored because he couldn't pick her out of 3. It would've been a better comparison if someone else got that GDR and not JP and seen what his reaction would've been.

Sorry, to those that probably won't like my post, but IMO he got the group date rose more of a calm down, relax, and enjoy the evening kind of thing. Instead of a your terrific, here you go kind of thing. Because, she just all of the sudden looked at him and said wait a minute. When she got up to go get it the rose she looked kind of upset to me. Gives him the rose, crisis diverted.

Once again, apologies to those that will not like my opinion.

happyntexas wrote:

anders wrote:

chesirecat wrote:As for JP, I think he is still the frontrunner but I wasn't expecting so much jealously. I think he handled it okay though, better than Chantal did last season. I liked that he was about to explain it to her rather than just kind of have a meltdown in front of her.
!

no comparison to Chantal - she didn't get that GDR and was floored because he couldn't pick her out of 3. It would've been a better comparison if someone else got that GDR and not JP and seen what his reaction would've been.

Sorry, to those that probably won't like my post, but IMO he got the group date rose more of a calm down, relax, and enjoy the evening kind of thing. Instead of a your terrific, here you go kind of thing. Because, she just all of the sudden looked at him and said wait a minute. When she got up to go get it the rose she looked kind of upset to me. Gives him the rose, crisis diverted.

Once again, apologies to those that will not like my opinion.

right - the exact reason Brad gave that same GDR to Ashley.

happyntexas wrote:

KarmaGirl wrote:JP and Ben are wonderful men, however JP is the sexiest man I've ever seen on any of these shows. He is to die for! He is also hilarious, charming, very bright and accomplished. OK, now my left leg is shaking. So, of course I want Ashley to pick JP. However, I feel I'm being "fooled" in to thinking it is JP who is the last man standing. There are a few clues that point to Ben tonight, besides Ashley saying she LOVES Ben! (That's a big clue!) Ashley told Constantine that he had the "look" that she is in to. Well Constantine and Ben look quite a bit alike. Bentley also had that look. Tall, dark and moppy. JP looks nothing like those big, hairy boys!
Also, so little of the date with Ben was shown - what did we miss? I think they are trying to hide that growing love story, so we'll be shocked in the end and so mad it wasn't JP. Therefore, we'll watch JP be the next Bachelor. Seriously, there was a pool there, an overnight date, breakfast - and all we saw was a little scooter ride, lots of scenery and a little bit of chat with some awkward platonic looking smacking sounding kisses?
Something is fishy with this editing! I wonder if we are all being fooled once again.
As for JP and his jealousy, maybe it is my age, but I truly believe that healthy jealousy as JP showed is very important to a relationship. The opposite of that kind of loving jealousy is indifference - and that is very hard to get past in a relationship. If you are falling in love and have to watch other great men date the woman you feel is meant to be with you - it has to be extremely difficult. And as a woman who has felt both emotions from men, I will take loving jealousy over indifference any day. All it really means is that JP cares, a lot.
Thoughts on these observations?

I totally agree with everything you said. I love both guys, but I see a swing Ben's way.

I do, however, think Ben suits her personality more. I know there were several pictures posted of their date and some looked interesting or could have been interesting. But, we just see a chopped up date. She has said she feels an emotional connection to Ben. And tonight she said, that she wants the physical and emotional. I've seen some hot, sexy kisses with JP, but not too much beyond that. Although it could be on the editing room floor. There is a lot going on with both guys that we are not seeing. She wants a total package. She has called both a total package. So, I'm still sitting on my fence watching these posts and listening for clues. LOL

A lot of good points here. I do think they cut a lot of good stuff in Ben's date and it's not just because I'm a fan. We actually saw it in the pics including some lovely hugs and Ashley jumping on Ben. Why hide that? We did see a couple of sweet hugs in the daytime date but most of the kissing we saw was either at a great distance or at the dinner table. I hate to mention this because of the outcome but kind of reminds me of Brad & Emily's dates where there always seemed to be a foot in between them and we mostly saw the awkwardness. I will say that when Ben was opening up to Ashley, I thought she was intent on what he was saying but am not sure it all matched. They edit these things so sometimes the reaction doesn't fit with what they're actually hearing. Sometimes you can catch it when you see the table and where they're at with dinner but not this time. We saw just a tiny bit of them kissing by the fire and none later. We missed so much that could have been a clue either way.

I totally disagree that jealousy expressed is ever good. I'm not saying that JP has anger or jealousy issues but I see it as a red flag that it's a possibility. He did steam about it and someone (Lucas?) said that they'd better leave him alone. That he walked out when Ben came in came across as childish and certainly that's the way he acted on the group date. I still find it very unattractive and not a good edit if he's the f1. The jealousy could be the introduction of doubt or it could end up showing us the beginning of why Ashley doesn't pick him. I still think that it's a bad sign that she felt she had to ask him the extent of his anger/jealousy and whether he had taken it out on anyone.

anders wrote:Weren't we told that something shocking happens during the HTDs (or something like that??) I wondered why we got so little of Ames date - just the carriage ride - I don't recall getting any caps of her meeting his fam. I'm gonna go look again. I find that part odd.

this is all we saw:

I kind of assumed the shocking would be Constantine taking himself out ( or however it goes down), or Ryan coming back. Haven't heard about HTD.

anders wrote:

happyntexas wrote:

anders wrote:

chesirecat wrote:As for JP, I think he is still the frontrunner but I wasn't expecting so much jealously. I think he handled it okay though, better than Chantal did last season. I liked that he was about to explain it to her rather than just kind of have a meltdown in front of her.
!

no comparison to Chantal - she didn't get that GDR and was floored because he couldn't pick her out of 3. It would've been a better comparison if someone else got that GDR and not JP and seen what his reaction would've been.

Sorry, to those that probably won't like my post, but IMO he got the group date rose more of a calm down, relax, and enjoy the evening kind of thing. Instead of a your terrific, here you go kind of thing. Because, she just all of the sudden looked at him and said wait a minute. When she got up to go get it the rose she looked kind of upset to me. Gives him the rose, crisis diverted.

Once again, apologies to those that will not like my opinion.

right - the exact reason Brad gave that same GDR to Ashley.

Exactly, she knew she was going to give him one anyway.......so here you go feel all better until the HTD's. And yes, now that you mention it, I remember that is why AShley got the GDR.

albean99 wrote:

happyntexas wrote:

KarmaGirl wrote:JP and Ben are wonderful men, however JP is the sexiest man I've ever seen on any of these shows. He is to die for! He is also hilarious, charming, very bright and accomplished. OK, now my left leg is shaking. So, of course I want Ashley to pick JP. However, I feel I'm being "fooled" in to thinking it is JP who is the last man standing. There are a few clues that point to Ben tonight, besides Ashley saying she LOVES Ben! (That's a big clue!) Ashley told Constantine that he had the "look" that she is in to. Well Constantine and Ben look quite a bit alike. Bentley also had that look. Tall, dark and moppy. JP looks nothing like those big, hairy boys!
Also, so little of the date with Ben was shown - what did we miss? I think they are trying to hide that growing love story, so we'll be shocked in the end and so mad it wasn't JP. Therefore, we'll watch JP be the next Bachelor. Seriously, there was a pool there, an overnight date, breakfast - and all we saw was a little scooter ride, lots of scenery and a little bit of chat with some awkward platonic looking smacking sounding kisses?
Something is fishy with this editing! I wonder if we are all being fooled once again.
As for JP and his jealousy, maybe it is my age, but I truly believe that healthy jealousy as JP showed is very important to a relationship. The opposite of that kind of loving jealousy is indifference - and that is very hard to get past in a relationship. If you are falling in love and have to watch other great men date the woman you feel is meant to be with you - it has to be extremely difficult. And as a woman who has felt both emotions from men, I will take loving jealousy over indifference any day. All it really means is that JP cares, a lot.
Thoughts on these observations?

I totally agree with everything you said. I love both guys, but I see a swing Ben's way.

I do, however, think Ben suits her personality more. I know there were several pictures posted of their date and some looked interesting or could have been interesting. But, we just see a chopped up date. She has said she feels an emotional connection to Ben. And tonight she said, that she wants the physical and emotional. I've seen some hot, sexy kisses with JP, but not too much beyond that. Although it could be on the editing room floor. There is a lot going on with both guys that we are not seeing. She wants a total package. She has called both a total package. So, I'm still sitting on my fence watching these posts and listening for clues. LOL

A lot of good points here. I do think they cut a lot of good stuff in Ben's date and it's not just because I'm a fan. We actually saw it in the pics including some lovely hugs and Ashley jumping on Ben. Why hide that? We did see a couple of sweet hugs in the daytime date but most of the kissing we saw was either at a great distance or at the dinner table. I hate to mention this because of the outcome but kind of reminds me of Brad & Emily's dates where there always seemed to be a foot in between them and we mostly saw the awkwardness. I will say that when Ben was opening up to Ashley, I thought she was intent on what he was saying but am not sure it all matched. They edit these things so sometimes the reaction doesn't fit with what they're actually hearing. Sometimes you can catch it when you see the table and where they're at with dinner but not this time. We saw just a tiny bit of them kissing by the fire and none later. We missed so much that could have been a clue either way.

I totally disagree that jealousy expressed is ever good. I'm not saying that JP has anger or jealousy issues but I see it as a red flag that it's a possibility. He did steam about it and someone (Lucas?) said that they'd better leave him alone. That he walked out when Ben came in came across as childish and certainly that's the way he acted on the group date. I still find it very unattractive and not a good edit if he's the f1. The jealousy could be the introduction of doubt or it could end up showing us the beginning of why Ashley doesn't pick him. I still think that it's a bad sign that she felt she had to ask him the extent of his anger/jealousy and whether he had taken it out on anyone.

The editing is killing me....why???? The same thing in Hong Kong when Ben was "apparently" listening to the guys talk.....but over Constantine's head on the couch in the background.....he was clearly having a little chat with Ashley. Never would have noticed it if I hadn't slowed the whole thing down. That's why he never said anything when they were all talking.....he wasn't even there. On the couch the whole time. From the moment Ashley got up and walked away......he was right behind her. Because they showed Lucas next....Ben was no longer sitting there, but on the couch with Ashley. The spliced him into the group of guys, so it would look like he was there and listening to them. WHY??? Editing.......

happyntexas wrote:

anders wrote:

chesirecat wrote:As for JP, I think he is still the frontrunner but I wasn't expecting so much jealously. I think he handled it okay though, better than Chantal did last season. I liked that he was about to explain it to her rather than just kind of have a meltdown in front of her.
!

no comparison to Chantal - she didn't get that GDR and was floored because he couldn't pick her out of 3. It would've been a better comparison if someone else got that GDR and not JP and seen what his reaction would've been.

Sorry, to those that probably won't like my post, but IMO he got the group date rose more of a calm down, relax, and enjoy the evening kind of thing. Instead of a your terrific, here you go kind of thing. Because, she just all of the sudden looked at him and said wait a minute. When she got up to go get it the rose she looked kind of upset to me. Gives him the rose, crisis diverted.

Once again, apologies to those that will not like my opinion.

happyntexas wrote:


I kind of assumed the shocking would be Constantine taking himself out ( or however it goes down), or Ryan coming back. Haven't heard about HTD.

and maybe I'm wrong, but I thought we heard something very early on that something happed at the HTD stage.

anyone else remember this??

I don't recall us hearing anything shocking happening at FD stage - only RS saying that Dino leaves and it's basically pretty mutual.

happyntexas wrote:

albean99 wrote:

happyntexas wrote:

KarmaGirl wrote:JP and Ben are wonderful men, however JP is the sexiest man I've ever seen on any of these shows. He is to die for! He is also hilarious, charming, very bright and accomplished. OK, now my left leg is shaking. So, of course I want Ashley to pick JP. However, I feel I'm being "fooled" in to thinking it is JP who is the last man standing. There are a few clues that point to Ben tonight, besides Ashley saying she LOVES Ben! (That's a big clue!) Ashley told Constantine that he had the "look" that she is in to. Well Constantine and Ben look quite a bit alike. Bentley also had that look. Tall, dark and moppy. JP looks nothing like those big, hairy boys!
Also, so little of the date with Ben was shown - what did we miss? I think they are trying to hide that growing love story, so we'll be shocked in the end and so mad it wasn't JP. Therefore, we'll watch JP be the next Bachelor. Seriously, there was a pool there, an overnight date, breakfast - and all we saw was a little scooter ride, lots of scenery and a little bit of chat with some awkward platonic looking smacking sounding kisses?
Something is fishy with this editing! I wonder if we are all being fooled once again.
As for JP and his jealousy, maybe it is my age, but I truly believe that healthy jealousy as JP showed is very important to a relationship. The opposite of that kind of loving jealousy is indifference - and that is very hard to get past in a relationship. If you are falling in love and have to watch other great men date the woman you feel is meant to be with you - it has to be extremely difficult. And as a woman who has felt both emotions from men, I will take loving jealousy over indifference any day. All it really means is that JP cares, a lot.
Thoughts on these observations?

I totally agree with everything you said. I love both guys, but I see a swing Ben's way.

I do, however, think Ben suits her personality more. I know there were several pictures posted of their date and some looked interesting or could have been interesting. But, we just see a chopped up date. She has said she feels an emotional connection to Ben. And tonight she said, that she wants the physical and emotional. I've seen some hot, sexy kisses with JP, but not too much beyond that. Although it could be on the editing room floor. There is a lot going on with both guys that we are not seeing. She wants a total package. She has called both a total package. So, I'm still sitting on my fence watching these posts and listening for clues. LOL

A lot of good points here. I do think they cut a lot of good stuff in Ben's date and it's not just because I'm a fan. We actually saw it in the pics including some lovely hugs and Ashley jumping on Ben. Why hide that? We did see a couple of sweet hugs in the daytime date but most of the kissing we saw was either at a great distance or at the dinner table. I hate to mention this because of the outcome but kind of reminds me of Brad & Emily's dates where there always seemed to be a foot in between them and we mostly saw the awkwardness. I will say that when Ben was opening up to Ashley, I thought she was intent on what he was saying but am not sure it all matched. They edit these things so sometimes the reaction doesn't fit with what they're actually hearing. Sometimes you can catch it when you see the table and where they're at with dinner but not this time. We saw just a tiny bit of them kissing by the fire and none later. We missed so much that could have been a clue either way.

I totally disagree that jealousy expressed is ever good. I'm not saying that JP has anger or jealousy issues but I see it as a red flag that it's a possibility. He did steam about it and someone (Lucas?) said that they'd better leave him alone. That he walked out when Ben came in came across as childish and certainly that's the way he acted on the group date. I still find it very unattractive and not a good edit if he's the f1. The jealousy could be the introduction of doubt or it could end up showing us the beginning of why Ashley doesn't pick him. I still think that it's a bad sign that she felt she had to ask him the extent of his anger/jealousy and whether he had taken it out on anyone.

The editing is killing me....why???? The same thing in Hong Kong when Ben was "apparently" listening to the guys talk.....but over Constantine's head on the couch in the background.....he was clearly having a little chat with Ashley. Never would have noticed it if I hadn't slowed the whole thing down. That's why he never said anything when they were all talking.....he wasn't even there. On the couch the whole time. From the moment Ashley got up and walked away......he was right behind her. Because they showed Lucas next....Ben was no longer sitting there, but on the couch with Ashley. The spliced him into the group of guys, so it would look like he was there and listening to them. WHY??? Editing.......

I never noticed that ~ good pick up. I really think JP has the edit of being Ashley's rescuer. It was very apparent thru the Bentley storyline. Seems they're removing much of anyone else displaying any of the same characteristics, with the exception of Ryan. Our only indication of Ben's response to Bentley's return was when CH listed him with Ryan & JP as having a positive response.

happyntexas wrote:I'm also kind of curious. And some may dislike me for saying this? But, am I the only one that seen a WTH?? moment in her eyes when she was 1:1 with JP discussing his jealousy and her asking him if he is taking it out on anybody?

Of course, he soothed it over and all was good. But, I wasn't getting the whole "I'm so happy your jealous and into me" moment. I got the other vibe.

I like both these guys. Either one could win and I'd be a happy camper. So, I try to look objectively. So, I wondered if I am the only one that noticed the slight shock for a moment before everything went okay again.

No that wasn't lost on me. I think Ashley realizes he has a temper. I laughed when she asked him if his bad place this week meant that he'd been fighting. I think JP has been edited to have been totally invested in Ashley from the get go. I can remember speculating that it seemed unnatural to have such strong feelings expressed so early and it was the whole Bach bubble effect coupled with his competitive nature that was fueling these feelings in the beginning. Putting yourself inside JPs head for a moment I think this was a a complete mindf**k week. In HK she basically told him that he had been at least second best to Bentley. Although on the surface he handled it well I suspect that this news had to get to him. But he was bolstered by their great HK date, she was very reassuring saying that she needed the Bentley closure to go full steam ahead with him. He was back to feeling like top dog again something that I see that is important to JP. In Taiwan, a few days after his date the doubts come creeping in as Ben's date turns in to an overnight. JP is worried about her connection with Ben (he voiced it on Ben's first 1-1). Although JP acted like a complete brat this past episode which was unattractive, I liked that he spilled it all to Ash in a heartfelt genuine way and her reaction was very, very positive and very reassuring but it had shades of when Brad reassured Chantal saying that she was the strongest/toughest girl in the house and not to cry Babe.

Moving on to Ben and Ash. Ben is edited to be such a dork and seriously does that guy ever where shoes? He returned home shoeless from his date. In contrast to the JP the Ben/Ash scenes appear to be a VERY lame (kind of like Em/Brad). JP definitely has it on the chemistry front. What is intriguing me at the moment are things that Ash said to Constantine. Originally she was floored by the significance of the old Thai guy saying that the secret to love was not trying to win. Last night she told Constantine that she loved that he was not "selling himself" to force a love connection with her and that he was her exact physical type. Ben/Bentley have the same shaggy hair and a lot of people could not distinguish Constantine and Ben early on. So is that a clue that Ben is her physical type. Also does she think that JP was in it to win it from the start like I do?

anders wrote:

happyntexas wrote:


I kind of assumed the shocking would be Constantine taking himself out ( or however it goes down), or Ryan coming back. Haven't heard about HTD.

and maybe I'm wrong, but I thought we heard something very early on that something happed at the HTD stage.

anyone else remember this??

I don't recall us hearing anything shocking happening at FD stage - only RS saying that Dino leaves and it's basically pretty mutual.

Maybe Aames breaks out of his Mr. Pardon Me Do You Have Any Grey Poupon role.....and does something that gets himself eliminated. AND no I'm not snarking on Aames. He has grown on me since his 1:1 date. Rather charming, if I do say so!! LOL