Re: Bachelor In Paradise - General Discussion - *Spoilers* Thread #2

[GuardianAngel]

I started to post earlier today in the epi thread, but had to leave. Clare and AshLee are two peas in a pod IMO. They both played the same part on their respective Bachelor Seasons, and they are both lunatics. JMHO

[JBF]

But Clare talks to the raccoons.

Actually the only "conflict" with her on Juan's season was in the tit-for-tat with "I'm not here to make friends" Nikki in Miami... and telling Juan off at FRC.

Had there been no Tierra to fight with on Sean's season, AshLee would probably be viewed as an angel of sorts. Oh... and she put Sean on the spot at WTA for fibbing when the cameras were off on the fantasy date.

That's right... when the cameras were off. LOL!

Did everybody read this article?

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/bachelor-paradises-graham-bunn-ashlee-frazier-pretty-girl/story?id=25133164

Though their relationship isn't necessarily well-documented in the ABC show, (Graham) Bunn described (Clare) Crawley as "one of my best friends there." However, (AshLee) Frazier's cruel comments also affected him negatively because it made him question his romance with her.

"I already discussed communication with AshLee. I was giving her an opportunity to tell me [what's going on] and she never did. It was frustrating," he said. "For me, all of that stuff was starting to weigh on me, like, this is becoming difficult [to date her] in a very easy place. What's it going to be like in the real world?"

[JBF]

Oh Harrison. You are ssssooooo full of opinions.



http://popwatch.ew.com/2014/08/27/chris-harrison-blogs-bachelor-in-paradise-episode-5/

Monday night we left you hanging   as AshLee picked up the rose ready to offer it to Graham who then dashed away. We opened Tuesday night showing Graham in the throes of a full-blown anxiety attack ; probably not the best physical reaction to have when embarking on a new relationship. I think one of the most telling things about this scene was who jumped to Graham’s side to take care of him in the midst of panic. Michelle Money didn’t have to go over to check on him, she just did it.  :Bubba: She was deeply concerned about someone she cared for, and it was her natural reaction. Noticeably missing from Graham’s side was AshLee, who stood like a statue in rose-hand-out-mode. This lasted about five to 10 minutes while we all waited, and AshLee never really went to check on him. She just stood there while Michelle’s actions, and instinctual reaction, spoke volumes.  :Knight: The girls in the house are clearly starting to question AshLee and her intentions.   Many thought Graham was going to turn down the rose and leave, but he ended up shockingly accepting it, securing his place in Paradise for one more week.

Lacy then became ill at the rose ceremony, but did you notice Marcus’ reaction when she ran off to be sick? He ran after her and was right by her side every step of the way.   Unfortunately, Lacy was so sick  :vomit: and dehydrated she was taken to the hospital. Marcus rode in the ambulance with her and never left her side.

It was pretty clear that despite his one-on-none date in a magical underground Mexican cenote, Kalon would be headed home, but the big surprise of the night was when Jackie decided to give her rose to Jesse Kovacs,    which left our beloved and perfectly dressed Marquel  :halo:  rose-less, and headed out of Paradise.

The next day heads turned as the new arrival of the week, Christy, walked down Tulum’s white sandy beach. As the turquoise waves crashed behind her, the housemates wondered who the blonde bombshell would choose. Christy already knew Zach a little bit and decided to ask him on a date despite being told he was in a relationship with Clare. Zach reluctantly declined the date with Christy, but it seemed more forced rejection, not a grand romantic gesture of loyalty. Clare was pretty happy to hear that he turned Christy down, but that happiness didn’t last long. Christy ended up taking out Jesse Kovacs,   something that she will eventually come to greatly regret.

Sarah got a date card and obviously took her guy, Robert. Despite the obscenely romantic Valladolid dinner set for the couple, things were pretty awkward between them. At one point they literally bonked heads leaning over at the same time. At times they seemed to have chemistry and a good thing going, but at other points, it was like watching a couple of nervous teenagers who weren’t quite sure what was going to happen next. :whistle: Sarah couldn’t have put herself out there more, but Robert just couldn’t pull the trigger and kiss her. Finally, he summoned up the courage and planted one on her. Sarah seems happy, but it still doesn’t feel that genuine and easy between them.

Speaking of pulling the trigger, Lucy was the next new arrival. Boy, did she come in flying high and raising hell.  Unbelievably, it actually took a few minutes (like 10?) before Lucy had her top off, but she was quickly bopping around the house and into the ocean topless:Woah-hoo: with Jesse Kovacs, whom she took on his second date of the week. It’s pretty clear something happened between them on their date, but no one knows just how far things went. Either way, right after hooking up with Lucy, Jesse came home and got comfy with Christy and started making out with her. That’s when things start to get fuzzy. At some point that night Jesse ends up in bed with what appears to be Christy and Lucy, and something definitely happened,  though we’re not sure what. I’ll let you guys make your own conclusions on this one.   I’m not sure about much, but I’m pretty positive Jesse Kovacs is not going to come out of this looking very good.   He’s already making Chris Bukowski look like a choirboy. :halo:

We gotta talk about the newest, hottest couple in Paradise, Cody   and Michelle. :cheerpom:  Cody is the most positive guy in the world,   and he is incredibly open and honest with Michelle.  :trampoline: He’s quickly falling for her and is making it known.   Ironically, this is what Michelle has been begging  and looking for, and now that it’s in her lap, she’s freaking out and questioning it. It’s almost like this six-foot muscle machine is too good to be true. It really is tough to believe that Cody is this genuine, but he is. Michelle and Cody looked great taking engagement and wedding pictures on the perfect beaches of Mexico’s Caribbean coast. They actually looked pretty natural and adorable together, and I really appreciated Michelle’s sense of humor with all this. I also really loved that despite all of her apprehension, Cody was still 100 percent on fire and so happy to just be with her.

And then the famous raccoon made a triumphant return. Clare and Zach have had an odd, strained relationship from the beginning. It was only a matter of time before it dissolved, and it finally did.:cutesmile!:  Zach had a pretty simple conversation with Clare, but she didn’t like anything that was being said and just checked out.  Actually, she literally checked out, running off into the jungle. :shocked!: I’ll be honest, I spent a month in that jungle and there’s no way in hell I’d run into it alone at night. The jungle in darkness?  :anyone?: We can only be thankful the Paradise raccoon was there to keep her safe. Clare totally lost it,   and decided that if it wasn’t happening with Zach that she’d pack her bags and leave Mexico in the middle of the night. And so, with a snotty nose, :babies:  Clare left Paradise, making it that much easier for the girls vying for roses this week. I have to mention my favorite comment from Clare had to be her departing words, when she said, “This is why I wanted to do Dancing With The Stars.” clap3

A few final notes worthy of being stated this week: Lacy and Marcus are obviously a serious couple now. Marcus kind of, sort of, accidentally slipped and said he loved her Monday night, but he made no mistake about it the next week when he told her straight up that his heart was hers and he was in love.

Despite putting it all out there, and I mean ALL, Lucy was sent home at the rose ceremony. Lucy is a smart girl, but she came to Paradise to play a game, and she lost. :con1: She really thought she had it all figured out and she had schemed her way to getting a rose. :Furious: The funny thing is, if Lucy spent half as much time being genuine and truly looking for happiness as she did scheming, she might find a little joy and peace.     But in the end she may actually be the lucky one, since Christy got the rose from Jesse Kovacs, and as you saw in the previews for next week, things get ugly between them.

With new arrivals coming down the beach next week,  relationships are going to be tested, new connections will be forged, and some people will get what’s coming to them.   And while there are many good relationships being built in Paradise, some seem to have weak foundations, and those won’t stand the test that is Bachelor In Paradise. If you think this two-night event was intense, just wait until next Monday’s explosive episode  :atomic: and then the incredible finale episode on Monday, Sept. 8.

[joshfan]

what is with the "bye felicia" thing that ashlee always mentions in her tweets?

[MiaHawk]

My strudel is just the cutest. So sweet. So sexy.

Anyone want to play me in bean bag toss? I suck at it.

[Guest]

I started to post earlier today in the epi thread, but had to leave. Clare and AshLee are two peas in a pod IMO. They both played the same part on their respective Bachelor Seasons, and they are both lunatics. JMHO

I think Clare has a happier side than Ashlee. She means well and is not manipulative imo. Her maturity seems stunted, she's misguided and dramatic, but it may turn out ok one of these days. I actually enjoy Clare sometimes. It didn't seem like she was listening to Zach, but in truth he wasn't all that into her so even if she had played it cool, it was just a matter of time. He wanted to go out with Christy. She needs a "Cody" and it's a shame Zach didn't recognize that and send her off with him. I could see that working.

Ashlee is dangerous crazy imo. She's definitely manipulative and can turn on a dime. I bet things will get worse as her looks begin to fade because she relies on them so much.

[Sprite]

I started to post earlier today in the epi thread, but had to leave. Clare and AshLee are two peas in a pod IMO. They both played the same part on their respective Bachelor Seasons, and they are both lunatics. JMHO

I think Clare has a happier side than Ashlee. She means well and is not manipulative imo. Her maturity seems stunted, she's misguided and dramatic, but it may turn out ok one of these days. I actually enjoy Clare sometimes. It didn't seem like she was listening to Zach, but in truth he wasn't all that into her so even if she had played it cool, it was just a matter of time. He wanted to go out with Christy. She needs a "Cody" and it's a shame Zach didn't recognize that and send her off with him. I could see that working.

Ashlee is dangerous crazy imo. She's definitely manipulative and can turn on a dime. I bet things will get worse as her looks begin to fade because she relies on them so much.

And the clock is already ticking. She is 33. Not that that is old, but I bet in her very organized mind she had her life all perfectly arranged and it's not living up to expectations.

[JBF]

I started to post earlier today in the epi thread, but had to leave. Clare and AshLee are two peas in a pod IMO. They both played the same part on their respective Bachelor Seasons, and they are both lunatics. JMHO

I think Clare has a happier side than Ashlee. She means well and is not manipulative imo. Her maturity seems stunted, she's misguided and dramatic, but it may turn out ok one of these days. I actually enjoy Clare sometimes. It didn't seem like she was listening to Zach, but in truth he wasn't all that into her so even if she had played it cool, it was just a matter of time. He wanted to go out with Christy. She needs a "Cody" and it's a shame Zach didn't recognize that and send her off with him. I could see that working.

Ashlee is dangerous crazy imo. She's definitely manipulative and can turn on a dime. I bet things will get worse as her looks begin to fade because she relies on them so much.

Have to re-watch the trainwreck again to pick up on all that happened. There was a lot of lop and chop in the last episode. (For example: the "spoilers"... which are often wrong anyway... claim that Lucy was there before Clare left and may have asked Zack first before Jesse. Even the AfterBuzz duo noticed some interesting BAD edits during a key Clare/Zack scene.)

When Clare was boo-hooing a lot in the jungle, it was interesting that very little of it was about Zack directly and more about what AshLee was doing, being viewed by others as a slutpuppy and the whole drama "situation". I am rather curious if medics were involved here on account of a genuine breakdown and the handlers "talked" her into leaving.

I still suspect that Zack took AshLee's trashtalking much more seriously than it appeared on screen. No, he was not judgmental of what Clare may or may not have done on Juan's season, but AshLee really did... literally... sabotage the relationship and make him second guess everything. She was friends with Zack pre-show a bit longer than he was with Clare and he did take much of what she said seriously. Then, that is. Not sure now, since every cast member has declared on screen that AshLee is more "cuckoo" than Clare could ever hope to be. Even Lacy chirped about her during her hospital scenes in "time traveling" PI sessions!

Of course, Jackie was always "the other option" he was interested in and we will see him make an attempt with her post-Clare... and possibly get dumped because Jackie has already shown signs of being less interested in him than he is in her. However I do question if Jackie was ever a factor (despite some of Clare's talk with him) since she was pretty occupied with both Marquel and Jesse. Zack would have made some move by that time if he wasn't willing to give his relationship with Clare a chance. Heck, bro-buddy Robert had no problem flip-flopping between Michelle and Sarah... as did Michelle between him and Marquel.

Also he was visibly crying when Clare left, so, no, he really didn't want her to leave. What he did "wrong" in Clare's eyes (per her twitter comment mentioned earlier) is that he didn't come after her as she left. I half agree, half disagree. They have only been together for two weeks. We all know how these shows operate... these contestants are keeping their options "open". No doubt Graham would have favored THAT.

I have to admit it... even though I still WUV you, Clare... this "it is all about me" complex Has Got To Go. Even when Zack arrived in episode #2, one of the first lines out of her mouth was "maybe there's something here for meeee?" The whole "I want the guys to chase me" schtick is simply a reaction to all of her unsuccessful "chasing" of Juan on his season, but this girl needs to learn more compromise and moderation and tone down all of the "this way or that way, my way or the highway". Otherwise, she will be stuck watching Golden Girls for the rest of her life (her words at the start of Juan's season).

Off topic... somewhat...

I want to bring up the sea turtle scene (and the reptile also made a cameo in episode #5 and appears as inbetween two Zack voice-overs in the promos). I re-watched episode #3 before the last two online. The edit was quite interesting there. First of all HE asked her about Daddy, not the other way around. When Clare discussed wanting a man just like her father... and continued listing his characteristics... we were NOT shown her talking in a PI session. Instead, the camera was focused on Zack's face when he was with her. No clue what that was all about. Do the editors feel that Clare ruined this relationship and lost what she could have had? Or are they saying that Zack is TOO much like her father "image", described in PI sessions with the handlers, and that was Zack's primary "appeal" to her? Or maybe she still needs to get over him first before she can view relationships objectively? This is probably not too important, but it was still a curio to me.

[JBF]

*chuckle chuckle*... I need to get my head examined.

I was just wondering...

What would have happened had Eric Hill not died and he would have been cast for Bachelor In Paradise? What would his conversations with AshLee Frazier be like? Maybe she would respond "Am I aware that there are cameras around? Certainly I am aware!"

[vivi2]

*chuckle chuckle*... I need to get my head examined.

I was just wondering...

What would have happened had Eric Hill not died and he would have been cast for Bachelor In Paradise? What would his conversations with AshLee Frazier be like? Maybe she would respond "Am I aware that there are cameras around? Certainly I am aware!"

You're really funny!

[JBF]

Well try to contain yourself... you just know I HAD to go further.

Ohhhh... I just HAD to document Clare's break down scene for scene here. This was too good not to post here for posterity.

Zack to Clare by the camp fire:
For me, I am trying to, like, be real and honest with you and trying to, like, figure out if our relationship is, like, the right thing to do.

Cue anvil drop sound effect...

Clare:What do you mean?
Zack: Ummm...
Clare: So is it something you can picture? Is this something you want?
Zack: I definitely want a relationship. What I am trying to figure out is if we are a great fit for each other.
Clare: And that's what I am asking about you. You asked to tell you what do I think.
Zack: I think that you have all of the qualities that I am looking for in a girl... but, at the same time, to me it got very intense very quickly and I wasn't prepared for that. You are more all eggs in and I take things so much slower. I do feel like we have pushed things a little too quickly, in my opinion. I just want to have fun with you and, like, be chill and hang out...
Clare: You just seem really hesitant on everything... and what I am hearing from you is that this is too much for you and it is not something you want right now because it is too serious for you? Is that what you are saying?
Zack: No it is not too serious every second. I am just trying to figure it out. There is no right way to do it. It is like either...
Clare: The right way to do it is to follow your heart. There is no figuring it out.
Zack: No, I get that.
Clare: You either want it or you don't want it.
Zack: No, I get that
Clare: Either you are into it or you are not into it. (long pause) I am heading to bed. OK? (quick kiss)
Zack (the look on his face is priceless!): No. Please don't.
Clare: I'm tired! I'm gonna go to bed.

Zack (with head down and entering his PI speech): I'm kinda confused at the moment. I wasn't trying to insinuate anything tonight. I was basically trying to have a conversation with her. She go up and walked away which is not a good sign.

Funny thing... that is EXACTLY what Graham said about AshLee in episode #1! Speaking of whom...

Michelle to AshLee: Has Clare been out there talking to Zack?
AshLee (all unconcerned and sweet nature): They may just be "relaxing", you know?
Michelle: I dunno. Something must have happened.
Knock knock. Clare Bear... are you OK?

Zack to Graham: She just got up and left!
Graham: You weren't trying to do anything malicious were you?
Zack: The opposite. I was just trying to protect us both in this journey.

Christy chips in (after a quick Clare voice-over "I wanna get outta here"): I don't know what was said but Clare freaked out. Big shocker. Now... here we are.

Security guard: Clare... she ran off into the jungle.

Clare blubbering: I didn't come here for this and, like, this is not fun for me. Drama the whole time. I can't handle it.
Raccoon: chi-chi-chi-chi
Clare: And I've tried everything. I've taken it slow but he said don't go with Cody because I want you. Oh yeah, we obviously have something physical but I just don't know if there's something more. He makes no f***ing sense. It is a joke.
Raccoon: chi-chi-chi-chi
Clare: And all of AshLee's drama. I can't handle this... and I am, like, having a panic attack on national television... looking like a fool! Again! I just wanna leave. I didn't come here for this.
Raccoon bolting.

Curiously abc.com deleted some stuff while I was watching. This link no longer works.
http://abc.go.com/shows/bachelor-in-paradise/videos/most-recent/VDKA0_h4uxf5uf

They must want to get this silly show over with right away and move on to Chris' season pronto. The banners are up and everything! Let the countdown to January begin...

[vivi2]

^^ JBF. keep 'em coming, don't hold anything back! I've always enjoyed your posts. Thanks for the laugh...

PS. You s/b writing the scripts for MF.

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