Episode 6 - 6/27 - Discussion - Spoilers

albean99 wrote:

nutty1 wrote:

albean99 wrote:I haven't quite given up on Ben yet, Nutty1, but mostly because I'm not convinced they're giving us the f1 on a platter. I won't be surprised if I'm wrong though. I do love Ben and for me he's the best thing about the show with all of the Bentley junk. The group date was my favorite part of the show last night and he had the best 1 on 1 time even if Ryan did get the rose. Loved the outtake. I'll be okay if Ben is the f2 but so sad for him. I'm torn between wanting him to be the bachelor if that's the case and wanting him to run far away.

If Ben does end up as the f1, we've been seeing it grow in the last 3 episodes and he does get a 1 on 1 date next week so will see what the edit's like. If JP is the f1 there will be major doubt thrown his way in the next epi or two. Right now the only thing is in the preview. I commented on him only getting 2 evening dates last night. Maybe 2 halves make 1 whole date? :laughingoutlou

I think some of the edit in the previews is already throwing us that doubt.....for the nonspoiled viewer anyway.
Ben tweeting to other Bach girls is the biggest red flag to me that he is not F1.

He wasn't actually tweeting to them, Nutty1, at least directly. Marisa was tweeting to the other girls and Nick chimed in. Ben's reply was to Nick's tweet but the others were in it (like a reply all).

You're right, there is a bit of doubt with JP in the preview although it's so confusing that it's hard to tell what the average viewer would think. If they think she doesn't pick anyone because of it or (more likely) Bentley, then it does throw doubt on JP or anyone being the f1. If you think back to Roberto's edit, he was much less out there than JP and way less of a sure thing at this point in the show. Now maybe because of Bentley, they want it to be obvious but it's just not like Fleiss to give the viewers a love story that's easy to see so I just don't know.

A co-worker just IM'd me and said "JP is way too obvious, they wouldn't hand him to us on a silver platter. I think she picks no one or a darkhorse" (her guess for that was Ben). Just wanted to share the opinion of someone unspoiled.

Question for you all, in the previews at the end of last night they showed someone (and it looks to me like the tailored suit/blue shirt a previous poster thought was JP from the FRC) pulling his luggage out the door....are TPTB blowing smoke surrounding the FRC or could this hold some weight? Is anyone good with sc's...can you bring this over, please?

JBF wrote:

klarson79 wrote:

Lucas15 wrote:
They came down the funicular from Victoria Peak (and they were very careful to show that one brief scene of the funicular coming down) before we saw them on the balcony - we never really saw them at Victoria Peak at all.

Most of the hotels in Hong Kong have rooftop observation areas so you can see the city views before ... er ... retiring for the night. We don't know where that balcony was - but there's no high buildings at the top of Victoria Peak so it wasn't there. Ashley's hotel????

Oh wow...I didn't know this. So, when they had the champagne and all that, they weren't at Victoria Peak? There's a lot of the date that they didn't show! When they were on the tram, you can see JP's watch and it looks like it was 10:20...wonder when the date started and ended?

I think they purposely left out a lot... whether "anything" happened or not. "It ain't our business."

Bottom line: you know NO OTHER one on this show, including Ryan and Ben, will be engaged to her after watching what we did see

Does anyone know what hotel Ashley was staying at in HK? Have there been any SC's matched??

I thought it was The Conrad - same as the guys and Bentley.

Didn't CH at the beginning of the season say that Ben would be the one this season that everybody would fall in love with (like Chris L)? He certainly hasn't gotten enough screentime if this was their expectation. Maybe the producers' original plan was to have everyone get on board the Ben train and believe he was F1 (as they did with Chris, kind of ignoring Roberto in the process), and didn't expect JP to be so popular (kind of like they didn't expect Reid to be so popular). The average viewer doesn't analyze, they usually take things at face value, and they usually think their favorite has the best connection and is going to be the winner. The producers' storyboard going into the season may have been to throw us a lot of Bentley as a distraction, let that blow up, and then assume that the overwhelming Ben love that had developed in the interim would make him the presumptive front runner once the smoke cleared, hiding the real F1, JP.

With the backlash from Bentley turning people off (which they didn't expect) very quickly (within an episode or two), maybe they then decided they'd better give us a little more JP and a little less Ben than they had originally intended to make the final outcome more believable.

ironcat wrote:Didn't CH at the beginning of the season say that Ben would be the one this season that everybody would fall in love with (like Chris L)? He certainly hasn't gotten enough screentime if this was their expectation. Maybe the producers' original plan was to have everyone get on board the Ben train and believe he was F1 (as they did with Chris, kind of ignoring Roberto in the process), and didn't expect JP to be so popular (kind of like they didn't expect Reid to be so popular). The average viewer doesn't analyze, they usually take things at face value, and they usually think their favorite has the best connection and is going to be the winner. The producers' storyboard going into the season may have been to throw us a lot of Bentley as a distraction, let that blow up, and then assume that the overwhelming Ben love that had developed in the interim would make him the presumptive front runner once the smoke cleared, hiding the real F1, JP.

With the backlash from Bentley turning people off (which they didn't expect) very quickly (within an episode or two), maybe they then decided they'd better give us a little more JP and a little less Ben than they had originally intended to make the final outcome more believable.

This seems plausible to me.

Alanna wrote:

albean99 wrote:

nutty1 wrote:

albean99 wrote:I haven't quite given up on Ben yet, Nutty1, but mostly because I'm not convinced they're giving us the f1 on a platter. I won't be surprised if I'm wrong though. I do love Ben and for me he's the best thing about the show with all of the Bentley junk. The group date was my favorite part of the show last night and he had the best 1 on 1 time even if Ryan did get the rose. Loved the outtake. I'll be okay if Ben is the f2 but so sad for him. I'm torn between wanting him to be the bachelor if that's the case and wanting him to run far away.

If Ben does end up as the f1, we've been seeing it grow in the last 3 episodes and he does get a 1 on 1 date next week so will see what the edit's like. If JP is the f1 there will be major doubt thrown his way in the next epi or two. Right now the only thing is in the preview. I commented on him only getting 2 evening dates last night. Maybe 2 halves make 1 whole date? :laughingoutlou

I think some of the edit in the previews is already throwing us that doubt.....for the nonspoiled viewer anyway.
Ben tweeting to other Bach girls is the biggest red flag to me that he is not F1.

He wasn't actually tweeting to them, Nutty1, at least directly. Marisa was tweeting to the other girls and Nick chimed in. Ben's reply was to Nick's tweet but the others were in it (like a reply all).

You're right, there is a bit of doubt with JP in the preview although it's so confusing that it's hard to tell what the average viewer would think. If they think she doesn't pick anyone because of it or (more likely) Bentley, then it does throw doubt on JP or anyone being the f1. If you think back to Roberto's edit, he was much less out there than JP and way less of a sure thing at this point in the show. Now maybe because of Bentley, they want it to be obvious but it's just not like Fleiss to give the viewers a love story that's easy to see so I just don't know.

Ben isn't 100 yrs old and new to social media, it's his job. He knew what and who he was tweeting to. Maybe he's F1 and Ash just doesn't care, I don't know, but personally, I can't see it.

I wasn't suggesting he didn't know they were on his reply but that he wasn't talking directly to them. I just think it's been made a big deal when it probably wasn't. Marissa's the one who invited the girls to Florida and then Nick said he & Marissa would have to come to SF. Not sure how it morphed into Ben inviting the girls to SF.

Ben probably isn't the f1 but just think he's so much more fun and interesting than JP. I don't see the attraction in him although apparently a lot of others do. Ben's not normally my type either but he's so funny in an endearing dorky way. :lovehearts:

Edited for brevity

Ben isn't 100 yrs old and new to social media, it's his job. He knew what and who he was tweeting to. Maybe he's F1 and Ash just doesn't care, I don't know, but personally, I can't see it.[/quote]

I wasn't suggesting he didn't know they were on his reply but that he wasn't talking directly to them. I just think it's been made a big deal when it probably wasn't. Marissa's the one who invited the girls to Florida and then Nick said he & Marissa would have to come to SF. Not sure how it morphed into Ben inviting the girls to SF.

Ben probably isn't the f1 but just think he's so much more fun and interesting than JP. I don't see the attraction in him although apparently a lot of others do. Ben's not normally my type either but he's so funny in an endearing dorky way. [/quote]

I agree. He added "Petey Boom" at the end which tells me (at least) that's who he was talking to.

Have you noticed that Ashley isn't that great at verbal communication? She communicates a lot with her body language and facial expression, but she really has trouble expressing herself well in words. I notice this about her all the time, including last season with Brad (ESPECIALLY on the fantasy date). Which is why I really took notice when she managed to verbally express herself quite well on her date with JP, despite the fact that she was really nervous. I do think perhaps someone else (a better communicator) could have done a little better job of it, but I really think for Ashley she did great. Go back and listen to her tell him about the Bentley situation. She was extremely nervous, but she managed to say it in a way that was not hurtful (at least not very) and reassured JP of his importance to her, and she really explained valid reasons for what she did (bringing B back for closure) as well as the reason why she felt the need to tell JP about it. I really want to applaud her for that whole picnic part of the date. It made me adore her even more and I totally see why she felt so good after getting that off her chest.

Now, she was back to her old not-terribly-articulate self when she tried to tell the rest of the guys about B at the RC cocktail party. It's just more evidence to me that she and JP are made for each other. She can really communicate with him, even the difficult stuff. I'm really loving these two together.

ironcat wrote:Didn't CH at the beginning of the season say that Ben would be the one this season that everybody would fall in love with (like Chris L)? He certainly hasn't gotten enough screentime if this was their expectation. Maybe the producers' original plan was to have everyone get on board the Ben train and believe he was F1 (as they did with Chris, kind of ignoring Roberto in the process), and didn't expect JP to be so popular (kind of like they didn't expect Reid to be so popular). The average viewer doesn't analyze, they usually take things at face value, and they usually think their favorite has the best connection and is going to be the winner. The producers' storyboard going into the season may have been to throw us a lot of Bentley as a distraction, let that blow up, and then assume that the overwhelming Ben love that had developed in the interim would make him the presumptive front runner once the smoke cleared, hiding the real F1, JP.

With the backlash from Bentley turning people off (which they didn't expect) very quickly (within an episode or two), maybe they then decided they'd better give us a little more JP and a little less Ben than they had originally intended to make the final outcome more believable.

I think the bolded is the crux of why this may not have been their plan (TPTB). Ben has increasingly had more screen time, but was notably absent too much at the beginning of the season to have viewers quickly fall in love with him. JP was visible right out of the gate, with plenty of 1:1 time w/ Ashley and physical chemistry onscreen. Ben's relationship w/ Ashley has been much more gradual and less physical in comparison, along with much less of their interactions being shown.

I think TPTB wanted JP's chemistry w/ Ashley apparent so that it was believable that she could be interested in someone other than Bentley (once she gave Bently the boot). What we'll need to watch closely now is how her relationship w/ Ben progresses against JP's hot and heavy chemistry w/ her. It's interesting that the previews of Ben include her wrapping her legs around him in a greeting and kissing at nite in the pool. (OT I'm not sure it's JP that she's spreading mud on either). At least via previews, TPTB are wanting to leave the impression of a physical connection w/ Ben.

I think we need a collage of Ben/JP watches!

gurlbrit wrote:

Love_Me wrote:I think JP and Ben F are both wonderful guys. JP and Ashley's date was a breath of fresh air and Ben F's cute outtake with Ashley showing how they talk to their dogs was one of the highlights to this season. At least we know one thing.....the F2 guys are there for the right reasons.

"Love" I didn't get to see JP's date yet, but I loved the outtakes of Ben F and Ashley talking to their dogs. We really need to see a whole slew of outtakes where each of them just cracks up.

Can't view video's (You Tube etc) at work, so will just have to wait until tonight to re-watch last night's eppy.

I also loved the doggie talk outtake. I was cracking up while they were doing it. It reminded me so much of how I talk to my sweet and precious dog.

Martinanne wrote:Have you noticed that Ashley isn't that great at verbal communication? She communicates a lot with her body language and facial expression, but she really has trouble expressing herself well in words. I notice this about her all the time, including last season with Brad (ESPECIALLY on the fantasy date). Which is why I really took notice when she managed to verbally express herself quite well on her date with JP, despite the fact that she was really nervous. I do think perhaps someone else (a better communicator) could have done a little better job of it, but I really think for Ashley she did great. Go back and listen to her tell him about the Bentley situation. She was extremely nervous, but she managed to say it in a way that was not hurtful (at least not very) and reassured JP of his importance to her, and she really explained valid reasons for what she did (bringing B back for closure) as well as the reason why she felt the need to tell JP about it. I really want to applaud her for that whole picnic part of the date. It made me adore her even more and I totally see why she felt so good after getting that off her chest.

Now, she was back to her old not-terribly-articulate self when she tried to tell the rest of the guys about B at the RC cocktail party. It's just more evidence to me that she and JP are made for each other. She can really communicate with him, even the difficult stuff. I'm really loving these two together.

Excellent point, Martinanne. Ashley herself mentions when she talks to CH that she has a tough time explaining what she really means. You are right that this was not the case with her convo with JP. I noticed that he just looks at her patiently with that "Tell me anything" look and that must help her get the words out right.