Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Ok so I am going to throw another bone out here. It seems to me that JP's heart being broken by his last love is being made prominent now...Why? Is it to explain actions that we will see coming up? Like him not being emotionally ready or secure? Now be gentle with me guys I am new to this......

ironcat wrote:

happyntexas wrote:She said in a PI that she is falling in love with Ben and that he felt like her boyfriend.

She stated regarding JP that she was falling for him......no Love Bomb.

But, there is more of an argument for JP.

Sorry, have to correct this. Ashley said she could be, or thinks she could be, falling in love with Ben. She did NOT state it unequivocally, there's a big difference.

BTW, you guys all realize that the show's over and Ashley already picked whomever she picked, right? No matter how impassioned anyone's argument is for one guy or the other, or how many people you manage to convince to change their mind, it's not going to change the end result. Just thought I'd introduce a little perspective here.

clueless wrote:Ok so I am going to throw another bone out here. It seems to me that JP's heart being broken by his last love is being made prominent now...Why? Is it to explain actions that we will see coming up? Like him not being emotionally ready or secure? Now be gentle with me guys I am new to this......

This reminds me of Melissa Rycroft's "I'm always the dumpee" theme... hmm... something to think about.

noobsleuth wrote:

happyntexas wrote:

noobsleuth wrote:

proudmommy50810 wrote:I think the slow burn does make more sense for Ben...but that's what the viewers see. We don't see JP as being a slow burn, but maybe Ashley did? Maybe she saw their relationship as growing more and more every time they were together, and to her that was a slow burn.

Depends if the love story started at the beginning of the season during all of the Bentley crap ... Or in the middle of the season.

JP : beginning of the season
Ben: Episode 4

I guess it could be argued either way. But I am one of those that feel Bentley was of some importance to the storyline and not just a smokescreen.

She stated in her blog that she started noticing Ben during the orphanage date and how her interacted with the children, and that solidified her feelings for him. She also state in front of everyone that she was developing strong feelings for the person that she wants to give the rose to.....then she gave the rose to Ben.

Yeah that's why I said it could be argued either way.

But they are trying to tell a story here. If I saw the storyboard for this season it probably has JP, Bentley, and Ryan written all over it. The F1 is ALWAYS established at the beginning of the season... the beginning of the story. I sound like a broken record (sorry for that) but if Ben is F1 we would have seen him on the group dancing date interacting with Ash, we would have seen him comforting her on the Roast date, we would have seen their first kiss, and we would have seen his reaction to the Bentley news at the Hong Kong RC. TPTB would have showed us that stuff if his story was of any importance to the main storyline. I could be totally wrong... I have just never seen anyone with half a storyline ever be F1. Even Jesse during Deanna's season got an FIR and an early date.

ETA: JMO!!!!

Warning- long post ahead.

The producers, once filming ends and Ashley makes her choice, have to put a "compelling" show together based on what footage they have. Regarding JP getting too obvious an edit to be F1, my question is, what alternative did the producers have if he was indeed F1, as far as how to present an interesting show? Yes, they could have given him a more hidden edit, by cutting out the steamy chemistry/kisses with Ashley, but then who else is she connecting with like that to take his place (ie, who could have gotten the physical edit instead of JP)? Not to mention, the chemistry between JP and Ash is the highlight of the show for some viewers, why remove it if it's pulling in ratings? And yes, JP's jealousy could also have been edited out, since F1s aren't supposed to be flawed in this way, according to some, but how boring would the show have been this week without that "drama"?

On a different note, whether Ben ended up F1 or F2, he needed to be presented to the viewers in some way, either positively or negatively (as did JP), since he was a major "character" who lasted until the final episode. I suspect based on CH telling viewers pre-airing that Ben would be the one viewers would fall in love with, that their expectation was for him to be a "fan favorite", if not THE fan favorite, so I don't believe he was purposely given a hidden edit, but there just wasn't a lot of TV-worthy footage of Ben in the first few episodes that remained on the cutting room floor, because he really wasn't on Ash's radar in the beginning, and whatever interactions Ash had with him were not very exciting. I think TPTB hoped/assumed (incorrectly, it appears) that between CH telling us we would love Ben, and using all the snippets of decent footage of him that they had, it would be enough to endear him to fans. Didn't really happen. When Ben finally got some attention from Ash in episode 4, we saw his storyline start, but by then he had a lot of ground to make up on the unanticipated fan favorite, JP. The editors have been trying to play this game of "catch up", probably hoped his first 1 on 1 would help, but the rather tepid connection between him and Ash that most viewers saw didn't really pull them in. They continue to try though, and will probably slowly chip away at JP's lead. Whether they succeed in these last 3 epsiodes at getting Ben neck and neck with JP or not, or even replacing JP with Ben as fan favorite, remains to be seen. (Don't personally think it's possible; JP has too much charisma, Ben too little to make up for his slow start, plus it doesn't help that he not only started out as the "2nd Ben", but also has a doppelganger on the show who is further confusing and diffusing some of the attention.)

I guess my point is that I think this edit that we're getting was probably pretty much set in stone, based on circumstances and personalities, regardless of the way the F2 finish. There was no way to hide JP and there was no way to put Ben at the forefront, without sacrificing what MF believes is "good storytelling".

Since there seems to be an ongoing discussion about the "slow burn" comment, could someone remind me of the actual context in which it was said. I think Ashley said it, but I have no clue when, where, or about whom it was said.

Nice post, ironcat!

ironcat..great post..

jelle wrote:Since there seems to be an ongoing discussion about the "slow burn" comment, could someone remind me of the actual context in which it was said. I think Ashley said it, but I have no clue when, where, or about whom it was said.

Nice post, ironcat!

From episode 4's blog:

Looking back at this week, the most important lesson I took away is that the best type of love starts off with a slow burn, and eventually turns into something much brighter than a spark ever could.

To me, it's comparing Bentley and F1, not Ben and JP. It's very evident to me and I don't know why there's confusion about it TBH. :greenman:

Iron, you rock my socks!!! So good, so true, so right. :D

Ironcat.. bravo on your post. You rocked it and nailed it. Thanks.

clueless wrote:Ok so I am going to throw another bone out here. It seems to me that JP's heart being broken by his last love is being made prominent now...Why? Is it to explain actions that we will see coming up? Like him not being emotionally ready or secure? Now be gentle with me guys I am new to this......

I'm interested in this development too to see how it plays out. JP's heart being broken by his last love takes him out of the possible Kiptyn F2 edit but on the other hand it also puts him in the position of becoming a more vulnerable, sympathetic character which I often think is the edit for the next Bachelor. Then again nobody's going to be getting a more vulnerable, sympathetic character edit than Ben F next week.

I think the key might be how JP's relationship history and Ben F's family history play out in their interactions with Ashley. We already know Ashley and JP are going to have a conversation about why JP "knows" this time is different. Will the conversation represent more maturation in their relationship? My opinion is Ashley's at the point of really wanting to figure out if her relationship with JP will be able to make the transition into the real world because she's feeling like the other elements (emotional, physical) are there. So this conversation could be a part of that, or it could put doubt in her mind about whether JP's just a guy who throws himself into every situation like he is here and it isn't that there's anything that's special about her or them together. There's also going to be the sensible, caring mom who wants her son JP to be cautious and it'll be interesting seeing if Ashley has any 1 on 1 conversations with her.

The previews didn't show us Ashley getting emotional as Ben F and his family share his family history with her but I'll be surprised if that doesn't happen. What the previews showed was footage that will be very effective in getting the audience to really care about Ben F. At this point, even ABC's official media calls him somebody making a "late" charge to try to win Ashley's heart so the question is whether being home will help him to open up to Ashley and give her reasons to think there's really something to their relationship that could work. We're obviously past the point where either JP or Ben F would be proving why they're good guys, attractive guys, and likable guys worth caring about because they've done that for Ashley. Now it's about seeing whether that can translate into a viable relationship.

Edit: Ironcat, really good analysis. With Ben F's edit I guess it boils down to whether they're hiding truly cameraworthy footage from him (and if so why?) or the footage doesn't make for a good story in their minds. I'd be interested to know which category his Ep 6 cocktail party conversation with Ashley falls into.

Also an interesting edit point IMO: If they'd really wanted to pump up Ben F as JP's big competition I think they would've focused JP's jealousy edit on Ben F's overnight date. Instead JP was talking about it as a cumulative thing: Ben F, the group date watching Ashley kiss other guys, so it was more of a general jealousy/struggling with the process issue.

Alanna wrote:

jelle wrote:Since there seems to be an ongoing discussion about the "slow burn" comment, could someone remind me of the actual context in which it was said. I think Ashley said it, but I have no clue when, where, or about whom it was said.

Nice post, ironcat!

From episode 4's blog:

Looking back at this week, the most important lesson I took away is that the best type of love starts off with a slow burn, and eventually turns into something much brighter than a spark ever could.

To me, it's comparing Bentley and F1, not Ben and JP. It's very evident to me and I don't know why there's confusion about it TBH. :greenman:

Iron, you rock my socks!!! So good, so true, so right. :D

Because some felt at the time that it was something like a restart... Eecially after production was almost shut down.. And that JP was the rabbit and Ben was the turtle

Excellent post ironcat - you have indeed nailed how this storyline has developed. You make lemonade from the lemons you are given and that affects the flavor.

The oft lamented "they left it all on the cutting room floor" most often means "they didn't have anything worthwhile to use".

Ironcat and cfck222 you pretty much summed it up nicely. What I am taking great amusement with are ABC's and CH company line propaganda. Last year they pretty much lead us through the whole series with the intensions of what we are supposed to get out of each episode. eg. viewers take note Em and Brad have insurmountable hurdles, this week they have to overcome this hurdle (check), hurdle 2 coming next week, (check) so on and so on.

I notice this week's dark horse comment making a last minute charge for her heart. That is the story folks that we are going to see. Can dorky Ben catch up to 100% testosterone JP?