Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Cali and JBF, I see what you're saying but I can't agree. I think she needs to hear more than 'you know already' or an off the cuff joke about a proposal. It's so unfair to her if he does that without going out on the limb and telling her what he actually feels and actually being serious for once. He's crazy about her though so I doubt he'll wait much longer.

I also don't agree that she can't take a compliment. She loves them! She starts sighing and cooing when the men tell her she's beautiful or whatever, it's adorable and hilarious. Luckily, JP is very generous with them so at least in that area they have zero issues.

sjcaligurl wrote:
How many times must he say "I think you know" ??? LOL! I don't think she's that dumb. I think she is in the same mode that she was in w/Brad where she didn't really believe that he was into her. In Brad's case, she didn't lose out. But even from the clip of her and Ben's next date, he's saying sweet things to her and she's minimizing it. It's hard for a lot of women/people to accept compliments. She has that bad. She's going to have to learn how to just say "that's so sweet" or "thank you" without questioning why they are saying it. Even I was mildly offended when JP mentioned being on bended knee in a month and she asked if he really felt that way or if he was putting up a front. That was kinda rude. There are only so many times you can shoot someone down before they get tired of trying. In this environment, she doesn't have a lot of time so she needs to cut it out! LOL! I know Bentley undermined her trust issues but I think she's been this way long before Bentley came along.

I'll just add, in addition to what you stated, that I ALSO think the editors are contrasting Jordan's quick decision of a proposal with Ben in that scene. She asked Ben if he was proposing after the mantle piece discussion and he paused. (Major Red Flag that will bite him later a.k.a. Reid.) He talked to the camera: "How beautiful is Ashley. You know I’m beginning to see her as a potential fiancé…? Wife of mine… ?" He did NOT say anything to her. She may not think he's ready. He did state he wasn't at the start of this in his talk with her in Hong Kong.

Even Willie quickly said "I do" in Las Vegas.

Alanna wrote:Cali and JBF, I see what you're saying but I can't agree. I think she needs to hear more than 'you know already' or an off the cuff joke about a proposal. It's so unfair to her if he does that without going out on the limb and telling her what he actually feels and actually being serious for once. He's crazy about her though so I doubt he'll wait much longer.

I also don't agree that she can't take a compliment. She loves them! She starts sighing and cooing when the men tell her she's beautiful or whatever, it's adorable and hilarious. Luckily, JP is very generous with them so at least in that area they have zero issues.

I agree with you, especially the compliments bit, BUT...

They do edit a lot out. How do I know? In episode #3, he states "You take a leap of faith. You get hurt. But time heals all and you just move on and things get put into perspective and, eventually, you meet an amazing girl and things change…"

I knew right then that they had their first heartbreak discussion, but the viewers aren't supposed to know that because it interfers with The Story they want to tell us. We are only supposed to know her fear of him possibly leaving continues to bug her. He told her wasn't leaving in episode #4, but... yes... she will need more "insurance". Also, they wanted to get the "last time you cried" line in episode #6. Major lop and chop! Can't prove anything for certain, but it is clear that we are NOT seeing their full conversations.

Thinking back with the ‘ettes…

With Trista, The Story was about Russ the guy she couldn’t figure out, Charlie the guy she normally dated as her “type” and Ryan the one who caught her off guard by episode #2-3. Then once Russ was gone, Charlie agreed to a post-show long-term engagement, while Ryan was ready to take her to the altar. That was the Big Discussion at Meet The Parents after Ryan asked Dad’s permission… a move that basically said “game over” once Trista started crying.

With Meredith, Ian really never had any competition. The moment she started fondling his tie out of the limo, I thought: Wait a minute. Don’t tell me the season’s over! There was very little “chemistry” with Matt, but he was the one willing to propose to her. Chad had more “chemistry”, but they made a big hoopty-doo about him being unemployed (even though Ian probably was also at that time)… as if “security” is all a woman wants. With Lanny, they gave us a trip to the Texas thoroughbred stud farm with its sex “aids” in order to make up for their lack of “heat”. Bottom line, Ian was gun-shy about the whole “engagement thang” and the editors milked it all the way to the bank.

Jen’s season was a mess… was there even a story? Oh yes. Frenchie was the only one who French-kissed her.

Deanna’s I guess was about Graham first half, then trying to “fit” Jesse into the final one husband mold. She just couldn’t stop talking and talking and talking. (“I only kissed him for the first time on the hometown!”) She fussed whether or not the guys were all there for her or just wanted to play manly games with each other. Jason was the been-married-before-and-ready-again Daddy and Jesse the snowboard flirt with his own dress code. Guess who she picked. Surprise!

Jillian’s was “they say love don’t come easy”. The group date in episode #3 was titled “The Good, the Bad and the Ugly” and Jillie did not hide which type she had the hots for… she wanted a man who put sauerkraut on his weenie, not ketchup. Jake was soooo ketchupee and his White Knight rescue of the Jillian Angel away from Big Bad Wes was just plain ridiculous. After all, she had previously stated some months earlier that Jason couldn’t handle her in the Fantasy Suite because she has too much “energy”.

I guess the saga went like this: Reid fell head over heels over Jillie. Jillie fell head over heels over Eddie. Eddie fell head over heels over his sext gals and the Chicago bars. The sext gals and the Chicago bars fell head over heels over US Weekly’s paychecks. Kippy just waited patiently on his surfboard for his Pretty Ballerina to parachute down to Left Banke, out of Jake’s crashing plane in the finale of his season. Maybe the correct theme song for that season was the Rolling Stones “You Can’t Always Get What You Want.” However, I will give Jillie credit though. That relationship lasted almost as long as Meredith/Ian’s and they are still buddies, so Eddie did start to “feel for” her towards the end. I’ll buy that.

Ali’s season was about her fearing she would not fall in love and, then, falling in love and fearing he wouldn’t love her back. Roberto was the Hot Polite-But-Shy One she was trying to “figure out”, Chris the Amazing Husband who was easy to “figure out” and Frankie the Windy One who was “figureless”. Then, after finally scoring with Robbbbberto, she wined “I know I have a date with Chris tomorrow and I should go but I just caaaaan’t…”

Ugh. I am happy for “Aliberto” and was happy to finally see more in the last two episodes regarding their burgeoning relationship, but that season still kinda sucked. It was because the producers knew all the spoilers were suggesting she picked nobody and they over-emphasized the Frank Drama (when she was just mad, not heartbroken) and over-emphasized Chris being ready for marriage (and leading viewers on). Bad edit job. The rainbow didn’t help.

***

This season, Ashley tells us “I’m going in full force and I’m leaving with no regrets. I’m not going to let my insecurities get in the way of my happiness this time!” Only those insecurities blow in her face… multiple times.

She had three frontrunners, with Jordan probably (some disagree with me… LOL!) at the top, but with Willie and Bentley as her alternative choices. She falls for the first after Half A Date (“Can’t believe I just said that”), then falls for the second when the first roasts her at the comedy club and runs away without comforting her. After the second dumps her (Bentley: “Heartbreak is worse than any illness in my opinion. It’s not just physical pain, it is emotional pain, but it has to happen.”), Jordan has to patch her up. Alas… there’s still emotional damage preventing her from fully communicating her feelings (“I'm having a struggle in my head and what I think is right for me and what I feel.”) Although Jordan handles the Bentley-in-Hong Kong business well, the other dudes don’t… and that adds more insecurities on top of the ones she already has.

Jordan, in turn, starts to fear that maybe she does not love him back. First, Jordan has to compete with other guys for her affection. Now he has to compete with her insecurities. “She's got to know that I'm flustered and that I'm upset. It makes it a little more difficult for me knowing that she’s probably not in love with me.”

Then there’s this side story of whether or not she is ready to Take The Leap Of Faith (which Jordan mentioned in his first 1 on 1 date at her place, in regards to getting over heartbreak).

We started the season with Willie in his intro: “Seven or eight of the girls that I've dated have moved on directly after me to find the one that they wanted. They're getting married or they are married. I was kinda their stepping stone to finding happiness.” She questions whether ANY of the guys are ready for marriage. When Willie actually decides to go through with it in Las Vegas, she is completely surprised. (Her first OMG.)

She later sees an engagement on the Hong Kong beach and sees it as a sign. (Her second OMG.)

Things heat up with Jordan over the HK skyline. (His OMG.)

She makes marriage wishes during her dates with Dino and Ryan, only we are getting signs that she’s not wishing one with them. Then, there is the wedding photo shoot date with you-know-who involved.

Hopefully, hopefully, hopefully... we eventually get to Jordan’s “Any doubts that I thought I had before... gone!” and Ashley’s “At this point there is no doubt in my mind. I'm ready to walk away with my husband.” (provided that isn’t a silly line spoken back in Bentley’s time). We already know Jordan is ready (see episode #1, repeated in episode #6). The question is Ashley ready?

Only then can the Fleismeister have his OMG.

JBF wrote:Jillian’s was “they say love don’t come easy”.

Great post as always JBF. I reference Jillian's season from it because one thing wasn't reflected in your description but factored heavily in her ultimate decision.

Ed clearly liked / likes the sexting and more with his friends back in Chicago. What wasn't obvious is that Jillian is cut from the same cloth as Ed and likes that same adventure. They both thought monogamy was a reddish-brown hardwood and were well matched.

Lucas15 wrote:

JBF wrote:Jillian’s was “they say love don’t come easy”.

Great post as always JBF. I reference Jillian's season from it because one thing wasn't reflected in your description but factored heavily in her ultimate decision.

Ed clearly liked / likes the sexting and more with his friends back in Chicago. What wasn't obvious is that Jillian is cut from the same cloth as Ed and likes that same adventure. They both thought monogamy was a reddish-brown hardwood and were well matched.

... and it wasn't obvious to many watching. They were so outraged "Jillian! How could you!?!"

I did feel so sorry for how the media roasted Team JED. They did NOT deserve so much criticism... The fact that they lasted as long as they did, while Brad and Emily split so quickly over much more positive media attention only makes me respect them more.

JBF wrote:Thinking back with the ‘ettes…

With Meredith, Ian really never had any competition. The moment she started fondling his tie out of the limo, I thought: Wait a minute. Don’t tell me the season’s over! There was very little “chemistry” with Matt, but he was the one willing to propose to her. Chad had more “chemistry”, but they made a big hoopty-doo about him being unemployed (even though Ian probably was also at that time)… as if “security” is all a woman wants. With Lanny, they gave us a trip to the Texas thoroughbred stud farm with its sex “aids” in order to make up for their lack of “heat”. Bottom line, Ian was gun-shy about the whole “engagement thang” and the editors milked it all the way to the bank.

Great recap of past episodes, JBF. For me, I saw "Lanny, Lanny, Lanny" ~ kissing on the kitchen counter on their 1:1 date in her bachelorette pad ~ being pure chemistry, but his mother cost him from going on the fantasy date. Chad would not even kiss Meredith on the fantasy date so I saw little chemistry between them. I loved that season ~ now talk about a F1 being a pure chemistry edit, although the storyline was that Ian was not ready to settle down. There were pages and pages of "Ianisms" on the ABC board. :lovekiss:

BlondieGal wrote:

JBF wrote:Thinking back with the ‘ettes…

With Meredith, Ian really never had any competition. The moment she started fondling his tie out of the limo, I thought: Wait a minute. Don’t tell me the season’s over! There was very little “chemistry” with Matt, but he was the one willing to propose to her. Chad had more “chemistry”, but they made a big hoopty-doo about him being unemployed (even though Ian probably was also at that time)… as if “security” is all a woman wants. With Lanny, they gave us a trip to the Texas thoroughbred stud farm with its sex “aids” in order to make up for their lack of “heat”. Bottom line, Ian was gun-shy about the whole “engagement thang” and the editors milked it all the way to the bank.

Great recap of past episodes, JBF. For me, I saw "Lanny, Lanny, Lanny" ~ kissing on the kitchen counter on their 1:1 date in her bachelorette pad ~ being pure chemistry, but his mother cost him from going on the fantasy date. Chad would not even kiss Meredith on the fantasy date so I saw little chemistry between them. I loved that season ~ now talk about a F1 being a pure chemistry edit, although the storyline was that Ian was not ready to settle down. There were pages and pages of "Ianisms" on the ABC board. :lovekiss:

Yeah, my memory is getting a little rusty with age.

Also, remember when they used some sort of blue filter or lighting on Chad's Fantasy Date to make it seem too "cool"? Like she had completely lost interest in him by then.

I will never forget, however, the Big O she was having talking about Ian with brother and Mom in the kitchen.

I do think it's good to go back through the Bachelorette season edits to shed light on what's happening this time. And I agree that the female leads approach things differently than the male leads, so comparisons are purer when we stay within the same gender. That said, no edit can faithfully mirror a past one, because every 'Ette was looking for something different and chose accordingly. There was no way Ed or Jesse were going to be able to be made into the fan favorites, even if they tried, so the editing decision those seasons was to go for the most "shocking" ending possible by showing those guys with all their warts, and playing up the substantial viewer appeal of the runners up. But what if the lead picks the guy who actually has the most personality/charimsa/genuineness and overall potential viewer appeal? And nobody else compares? Do the editors still totally "throw a bushel" over him for the sake of not making it too "obvious"? And how much power does the edit really have to make viewers swoon "en masse" over a runner up who is just not all that swoonworthy, and is it ultimately a wise decision to try to do that for the sake of suspense?

albean99 wrote:

nutty1 wrote:Just a random general thought.
I realize up to now, Ben is most defintely hidden. I am still trying to figure out why.
Because.....we know he is F2. Don't TPTB want the general public to be guessing about who she will pick? If he stays this hidden, there will be no guessing. They are going to really have to ramp up his story.
My guess is because the Bentley drama was half the season. So the second half is like a condensed entire season. So we have JP....front & center, everyone says "he wins for sure" (even the unspoiled). WHY???? Why would it be this easy. Again, would Fleiss want everyone going into the FRC sort of knowing who wins? And if JP is the winner, why didn't he show Ben more, to put more question in everyone's mind?

I think Ben is the guy who's slowly getting to Ashley, Nutty1. Bentley and later JP got the early jump but things can change as they did with Bentley. Ben really got Ashley's attention at the orphanage date and then during their 1 on 1. If you compare his and JP's 1st dates, Ben wins hands down. Ashley's flirty and wants to jump on him and seems to be thinking about kissing a lot with him. JP came right after Bentley left when Ashley's mind was elsewhere by her own admission. What will be really interesting is Ben's 2nd 1 on 1 date and how it compares. We already know that JP gets the evening only while Ben gets not only day & evening but also overnight. It still seems strange that JP only gets evening dates if he really is her favorite. I can't think of this ever happening before.

It doesn't make any sense to me either if the editing continues as it has with JP now being the frontrunner if he really is the f1. I guess things could flip a bit next episode if Ben's date is fun and romantic and JP comes across as jealous but what's strange is that he's even getting the tux in the group date which will have everyone thinking he's the f1. I know people keep saying that Fleiss is after ratings but it's never been in their best interest to have only one real choice at the end no matter how popular. If it were all about the happy couple we'd get more than 5 minutes at the end of the finale of the actual proposal. :Nod:

I've been reading and reading and not replying, but I just got to reply to this. No-one sees the interactions she has had with Ben, because no-one is looking. They are only looking for the next kiss with JP. If anyone noticed. She picked out her two men in the beginning. Ben's meet and greet was just as sweet when he got the 1:1 time. However, the cupcake story overshadowed it. I was one of those. I didn't notice the Ben thing until I rewatched the episode later. The rose ceremony.....he got the 3rd rose....right after Jeff and Constantine. When she arrived for the "roast" group date. She walked through the men and made her way to Ben and put her hand on his shoulder and sat down. However, when the mask was removed.....she came back in a sat on the arm of JP's chair and put her hand on his shoulder. (both men picked out). In the next episode when JP was talking about who all had kissed her. Ben says I've kissed her too. JP was like, "What, when?" The first kiss we see was the next night at the group date rose. So, we aren't even seeing some things.

So, I believe the interaction is there. No-one notices because we are all looking for the next JP time. It is hard to notice "quiet and subtle", when you have that "in your face hot and sexy."

For the record, I'm on the fence with both. I'm not a complete Ben fan, nor am I a only JP will do fan. I love both of these guys. Whoever she picks is the best for her. But, I though Ben needed a little defense on his side. He hasn't been completely invisible. Just a little on the quiet side.

happyntexas wrote:

albean99 wrote:

nutty1 wrote:Just a random general thought.
I realize up to now, Ben is most defintely hidden. I am still trying to figure out why.
Because.....we know he is F2. Don't TPTB want the general public to be guessing about who she will pick? If he stays this hidden, there will be no guessing. They are going to really have to ramp up his story.
My guess is because the Bentley drama was half the season. So the second half is like a condensed entire season. So we have JP....front & center, everyone says "he wins for sure" (even the unspoiled). WHY???? Why would it be this easy. Again, would Fleiss want everyone going into the FRC sort of knowing who wins? And if JP is the winner, why didn't he show Ben more, to put more question in everyone's mind?

I think Ben is the guy who's slowly getting to Ashley, Nutty1. Bentley and later JP got the early jump but things can change as they did with Bentley. Ben really got Ashley's attention at the orphanage date and then during their 1 on 1. If you compare his and JP's 1st dates, Ben wins hands down. Ashley's flirty and wants to jump on him and seems to be thinking about kissing a lot with him. JP came right after Bentley left when Ashley's mind was elsewhere by her own admission. What will be really interesting is Ben's 2nd 1 on 1 date and how it compares. We already know that JP gets the evening only while Ben gets not only day & evening but also overnight. It still seems strange that JP only gets evening dates if he really is her favorite. I can't think of this ever happening before.

It doesn't make any sense to me either if the editing continues as it has with JP now being the frontrunner if he really is the f1. I guess things could flip a bit next episode if Ben's date is fun and romantic and JP comes across as jealous but what's strange is that he's even getting the tux in the group date which will have everyone thinking he's the f1. I know people keep saying that Fleiss is after ratings but it's never been in their best interest to have only one real choice at the end no matter how popular. If it were all about the happy couple we'd get more than 5 minutes at the end of the finale of the actual proposal. :Nod:

I've been reading and reading and not replying, but I just got to reply to this. No-one sees the interactions she has had with Ben, because no-one is looking. They are only looking for the next kiss with JP. If anyone noticed. She picked out her two men in the beginning. Ben's meet and greet was just as sweet when he got the 1:1 time. However, the cupcake story overshadowed it. I was one of those. I didn't notice the Ben thing until I rewatched the episode later. The rose ceremony.....he got the 3rd rose....right after Jeff and Constantine. When she arrived for the "roast" group date. She walked through the men and made her way to Ben and put her hand on his shoulder and sat down. However, when the mask was removed.....she came back in a sat on the arm of JP's chair and put her hand on his shoulder. (both men picked out). In the next episode when JP was talking about who all had kissed her. Ben says I've kissed her too. JP was like, "What, when?" The first kiss we see was the next night at the group date rose. So, we aren't even seeing some things.

So, I believe the interaction is there. No-one notices because we are all looking for the next JP time. It is hard to notice "quiet and subtle", when you have that "in your face hot and sexy."

For the record, I'm on the fence with both. I'm not a complete Ben fan, nor am I a only JP will do fan. I love both of these guys. Whoever she picks is the best for her. But, I though Ben needed a little defense on his side. He hasn't been completely invisible. Just a little on the quiet side.

I don't know that those are fair accusations. Just because these moments haven't been seen doesn't equate a lack of interest in sleuthing on the part of posters here. Thank you, however, for pointing them out. to the board!

mnmhughes wrote:

happyntexas wrote:

albean99 wrote:

nutty1 wrote:Just a random general thought.
I realize up to now, Ben is most defintely hidden. I am still trying to figure out why.
Because.....we know he is F2. Don't TPTB want the general public to be guessing about who she will pick? If he stays this hidden, there will be no guessing. They are going to really have to ramp up his story.
My guess is because the Bentley drama was half the season. So the second half is like a condensed entire season. So we have JP....front & center, everyone says "he wins for sure" (even the unspoiled). WHY???? Why would it be this easy. Again, would Fleiss want everyone going into the FRC sort of knowing who wins? And if JP is the winner, why didn't he show Ben more, to put more question in everyone's mind?

I think Ben is the guy who's slowly getting to Ashley, Nutty1. Bentley and later JP got the early jump but things can change as they did with Bentley. Ben really got Ashley's attention at the orphanage date and then during their 1 on 1. If you compare his and JP's 1st dates, Ben wins hands down. Ashley's flirty and wants to jump on him and seems to be thinking about kissing a lot with him. JP came right after Bentley left when Ashley's mind was elsewhere by her own admission. What will be really interesting is Ben's 2nd 1 on 1 date and how it compares. We already know that JP gets the evening only while Ben gets not only day & evening but also overnight. It still seems strange that JP only gets evening dates if he really is her favorite. I can't think of this ever happening before.

It doesn't make any sense to me either if the editing continues as it has with JP now being the frontrunner if he really is the f1. I guess things could flip a bit next episode if Ben's date is fun and romantic and JP comes across as jealous but what's strange is that he's even getting the tux in the group date which will have everyone thinking he's the f1. I know people keep saying that Fleiss is after ratings but it's never been in their best interest to have only one real choice at the end no matter how popular. If it were all about the happy couple we'd get more than 5 minutes at the end of the finale of the actual proposal. :Nod:

I've been reading and reading and not replying, but I just got to reply to this. No-one sees the interactions she has had with Ben, because no-one is looking. They are only looking for the next kiss with JP. If anyone noticed. She picked out her two men in the beginning. Ben's meet and greet was just as sweet when he got the 1:1 time. However, the cupcake story overshadowed it. I was one of those. I didn't notice the Ben thing until I rewatched the episode later. The rose ceremony.....he got the 3rd rose....right after Jeff and Constantine. When she arrived for the "roast" group date. She walked through the men and made her way to Ben and put her hand on his shoulder and sat down. However, when the mask was removed.....she came back in a sat on the arm of JP's chair and put her hand on his shoulder. (both men picked out). In the next episode when JP was talking about who all had kissed her. Ben says I've kissed her too. JP was like, "What, when?" The first kiss we see was the next night at the group date rose. So, we aren't even seeing some things.

So, I believe the interaction is there. No-one notices because we are all looking for the next JP time. It is hard to notice "quiet and subtle", when you have that "in your face hot and sexy."

For the record, I'm on the fence with both. I'm not a complete Ben fan, nor am I a only JP will do fan. I love both of these guys. Whoever she picks is the best for her. But, I though Ben needed a little defense on his side. He hasn't been completely invisible. Just a little on the quiet side.

I don't know that those are fair accusations. Just because these moments haven't been seen doesn't equate a lack of interest in sleuthing on the part of posters here. Thank you, however, for pointing them out. to the board!

I wasn't accusing...honestly. I love this site here. I've been looking and looking for somewhere like this where you can read so many interesting things and see the different view points. I think the sleuthers do an amazing job. As a matter of fact, I only found this site because someone had suggested to me to look for any posts by Love_Me and this is where it brought me. I love both guys for her, and just thought maybe Ben flies a little under the radar. Although in the end, I do believe that JP is the F1.

I didn't mean any offense, if that is how you took my post. When I said no-one is looking. I actually meant that as a households across america kind of looking. JP is a favorite, so naturally people will look for his interactions. I didn't mean no-one is looking, as in the sleuthers. I meant generally, we notice JP more. We, as viewers in general.