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bluwavz wrote:

DMBFan wrote:

Love_Me wrote:Not to bring Fiji man up again. I want to put this to rest and gain some type of cloture. So here it goes...

He knew Ben was either the F1 or F2. I am thinking now as strange as it might seem that he saw Ben purpose and maybe thought she said yes. Then he found out that JP was the one she would marry and not Ben hence his change in who the F1 would be. He said Ben was at the Westin and it turns out that was true. So were JP and Ashley at some point. He did get a couple of things right, but missed the most important thing of actually knowing the outcome. Oh well it all worked out and isn't worth discussing anymore.


I just wanted to post one last thing about it because I think it is always best to keep an opened mind about certain things until the truth is known whenever that might be.

I was thinking about Fiji man yesterday...his she "make it up with Ben" has me thinking that it was a faked proposal & ending and Ben was in on it, but who know...

I thought Ben sounded too bitter for him to be in on it. Especially when he told Ashley that JP's a wonderful guy and he's sure they'll have a nice life together. He still sounded bitter at times to me at the ATFR, too.

You're right, he did. I just don't get how it was sooooo obvious to so many people, but he was oblivious. The producers must have really done a number on him (and Ashley to a certain extent, except I have to cut her slack as I think there is pressure on her that we have now way of knowing).

DMBFan wrote:

bluwavz wrote:

DMBFan wrote:

Love_Me wrote:Not to bring Fiji man up again. I want to put this to rest and gain some type of cloture. So here it goes...

He knew Ben was either the F1 or F2. I am thinking now as strange as it might seem that he saw Ben purpose and maybe thought she said yes. Then he found out that JP was the one she would marry and not Ben hence his change in who the F1 would be. He said Ben was at the Westin and it turns out that was true. So were JP and Ashley at some point. He did get a couple of things right, but missed the most important thing of actually knowing the outcome. Oh well it all worked out and isn't worth discussing anymore.


I just wanted to post one last thing about it because I think it is always best to keep an opened mind about certain things until the truth is known whenever that might be.

I was thinking about Fiji man yesterday...his she "make it up with Ben" has me thinking that it was a faked proposal & ending and Ben was in on it, but who know...

I thought Ben sounded too bitter for him to be in on it. Especially when he told Ashley that JP's a wonderful guy and he's sure they'll have a nice life together. He still sounded bitter at times to me at the ATFR, too.

You're right, he did. I just don't get how it was sooooo obvious to so many people, but he was oblivious. The producers must have really done a number on him (and Ashley to a certain extent, except I have to cut her slack as I think there is pressure on her that we have now way of knowing).

There are a few reasons why I think he was oblivious, but not any of the other contestants. One is that the only date that JP and Ben were on together was the orphanage group date in episode 4. On this date, Ashley said in front of all the other guys that she was developing strong feelings for Ben and then she gave him the rose. If at this point he thought Ashley had strong feelings for JP, getting the rose and having Ashley declare her feelings for him in front of all the guys probably made him forget all about it. This is the only date Ben would've been able to see JP and Ashley interact and it was early on. He knew JP had strong feelings for Ashley, but he had no way of knowing if Ashley felt the same way.

Another reason he may have thought Ashley would pick him is he had spent more overall time with her than JP. JP didn't have any kind of date in episode 2, while Ben had a date in every episode. Both of JP's 1-on-1 dates were evening dates, while Ben's were both all day, with one being overnight. Ben was also under the impression that Ashley picks who she goes on dates with and when. In episode 5, he thanked her for picking him for the 1-on-1 date, though we know that it was TPTB that picked him. Ben may have incorrectly assumed that Ashley picked him for the overnight date and that it meant she liked him the best out of all the guys. We as sleuthers know that TPTB picked him for the overnight date because Ashley meant for him to be F2. Ben didn't know this, though.

Quite a few posters have wondered how Ben could not notice how upset Ashley looked before he proposed to her. The only explanation I can come up for this one is that the sun was in his eyes. He did look like he was squinting. :laughingoutlou

Add TPTB to the mix and you get the mess we saw at the FRC.

bluwavz wrote:

DMBFan wrote:

bluwavz wrote:

DMBFan wrote:

Love_Me wrote:Not to bring Fiji man up again. I want to put this to rest and gain some type of cloture. So here it goes...

He knew Ben was either the F1 or F2. I am thinking now as strange as it might seem that he saw Ben purpose and maybe thought she said yes. Then he found out that JP was the one she would marry and not Ben hence his change in who the F1 would be. He said Ben was at the Westin and it turns out that was true. So were JP and Ashley at some point. He did get a couple of things right, but missed the most important thing of actually knowing the outcome. Oh well it all worked out and isn't worth discussing anymore.


I just wanted to post one last thing about it because I think it is always best to keep an opened mind about certain things until the truth is known whenever that might be.

I was thinking about Fiji man yesterday...his she "make it up with Ben" has me thinking that it was a faked proposal & ending and Ben was in on it, but who know...

I thought Ben sounded too bitter for him to be in on it. Especially when he told Ashley that JP's a wonderful guy and he's sure they'll have a nice life together. He still sounded bitter at times to me at the ATFR, too.

You're right, he did. I just don't get how it was sooooo obvious to so many people, but he was oblivious. The producers must have really done a number on him (and Ashley to a certain extent, except I have to cut her slack as I think there is pressure on her that we have now way of knowing).

There are a few reasons why I think he was oblivious, but not any of the other contestants. One is that the only date that JP and Ben were on together was the orphanage group date in episode 4. On this date, Ashley said in front of all the other guys that she was developing strong feelings for Ben and then she gave him the rose. If at this point he thought Ashley had strong feelings for JP, getting the rose and having Ashley declare her feelings for him in front of all the guys probably made him forget all about it. This is the only date Ben would've been able to see JP and Ashley interact and it was early on. He knew JP had strong feelings for Ashley, but he had no way of knowing if Ashley felt the same way.

Another reason he may have thought Ashley would pick him is he had spent more overall time with her than JP. JP didn't have any kind of date in episode 2, while Ben had a date in every episode. Both of JP's 1-on-1 dates were evening dates, while Ben's were both all day, with one being overnight. Ben was also under the impression that Ashley picks who she goes on dates with and when. In episode 5, he thanked her for picking him for the 1-on-1 date, though we know that it was TPTB that picked him. Ben may have incorrectly assumed that Ashley picked him for the overnight date and that it meant she liked him the best out of all the guys. We as sleuthers know that TPTB picked him for the overnight date because Ashley meant for him to be F2. Ben didn't know this, though. Quite a few posters have wondered how Ben could not notice how upset Ashley looked before he proposed to her. The only explanation I can come up for this one is that the sun was in his eyes. He did look like he was squinting. :laughingoutlou

Add TPTB to the mix and you get the mess we saw at the FRC.

And all the while producers are whispering little ideas into Ben's ear that he might be the F1...

onlyme wrote:

bluwavz wrote:

DMBFan wrote:

bluwavz wrote:

DMBFan wrote:

Love_Me wrote:Not to bring Fiji man up again. I want to put this to rest and gain some type of cloture. So here it goes...

He knew Ben was either the F1 or F2. I am thinking now as strange as it might seem that he saw Ben purpose and maybe thought she said yes. Then he found out that JP was the one she would marry and not Ben hence his change in who the F1 would be. He said Ben was at the Westin and it turns out that was true. So were JP and Ashley at some point. He did get a couple of things right, but missed the most important thing of actually knowing the outcome. Oh well it all worked out and isn't worth discussing anymore.


I just wanted to post one last thing about it because I think it is always best to keep an opened mind about certain things until the truth is known whenever that might be.

I was thinking about Fiji man yesterday...his she "make it up with Ben" has me thinking that it was a faked proposal & ending and Ben was in on it, but who know...

I thought Ben sounded too bitter for him to be in on it. Especially when he told Ashley that JP's a wonderful guy and he's sure they'll have a nice life together. He still sounded bitter at times to me at the ATFR, too.

You're right, he did. I just don't get how it was sooooo obvious to so many people, but he was oblivious. The producers must have really done a number on him (and Ashley to a certain extent, except I have to cut her slack as I think there is pressure on her that we have now way of knowing).

There are a few reasons why I think he was oblivious, but not any of the other contestants. One is that the only date that JP and Ben were on together was the orphanage group date in episode 4. On this date, Ashley said in front of all the other guys that she was developing strong feelings for Ben and then she gave him the rose. If at this point he thought Ashley had strong feelings for JP, getting the rose and having Ashley declare her feelings for him in front of all the guys probably made him forget all about it. This is the only date Ben would've been able to see JP and Ashley interact and it was early on. He knew JP had strong feelings for Ashley, but he had no way of knowing if Ashley felt the same way.

Another reason he may have thought Ashley would pick him is he had spent more overall time with her than JP. JP didn't have any kind of date in episode 2, while Ben had a date in every episode. Both of JP's 1-on-1 dates were evening dates, while Ben's were both all day, with one being overnight. Ben was also under the impression that Ashley picks who she goes on dates with and when. In episode 5, he thanked her for picking him for the 1-on-1 date, though we know that it was TPTB that picked him. Ben may have incorrectly assumed that Ashley picked him for the overnight date and that it meant she liked him the best out of all the guys. We as sleuthers know that TPTB picked him for the overnight date because Ashley meant for him to be F2. Ben didn't know this, though. Quite a few posters have wondered how Ben could not notice how upset Ashley looked before he proposed to her. The only explanation I can come up for this one is that the sun was in his eyes. He did look like he was squinting. :laughingoutlou

Add TPTB to the mix and you get the mess we saw at the FRC.

And all the while producers are whispering little ideas into Ben's ear that he might be the F1...

I'm starting to think the producers just straight up lied and told him he was the F1 because in the finale he was completely convinced that Ashley was in love with him and he said she would accept his proposal. When that didn't happen, he seemed to think that Ashley only picked JP because he was a safer bet than him and we know from the ATFR spoilers that he still thought that 2 months later. I don't remember any F2 being this confident going into the FRC, so I really do think the producers may have just told him he was the F1. This might be why he seems so much more bitter than any other F2. Something not right was definitely going on and I'm sure the producers are to blame for most of it.

I agree, I think TPTB lied to Ben about being F1. I can't find it now, but I just read very recently that Jason implied he got down on one knee because TPTB had him believing he was F1. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that they do this when it suits them to do so, and if they have any inkling that somebody they want showing up at the podium at F2 might bolt, I'm also absolutely certain they warn and put pressure on the lead to make sure that the lead does whatever is needed to keep F2 from thinking they are F2 by the FD/LCD. I seriously doubt we will ever see an F2 get a reprieve again the way Chris L was given one.

BUT I won't be a bit surprised if one of these days, they work to make an F2 and/or even a would be F1 a no show, depending on what kind of story they want to tell; probably more likely it will happen to a hapless male lead, like a Ryan. I just would not put it past them at all.

etherealfire wrote:I agree, I think TPTB lied to Ben about being F1. I can't find it now, but I just read very recently that Jason implied he got down on one knee because TPTB had him believing he was F1. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that they do this when it suits them to do so, and if they have any inkling that somebody they want showing up at the podium at F2 might bolt, I'm also absolutely certain they warn and put pressure on the lead to make sure that the lead does whatever is needed to keep F2 from thinking they are F2 by the FD/LCD. I seriously doubt we will ever see an F2 get a reprieve again the way Chris L was given one.

BUT I won't be a bit surprised if one of these days, they work to make an F2 and/or even a would be F1 a no show, depending on what kind of story they want to tell; probably more likely it will happen to a hapless male lead, like a Ryan. I just would not put it past them at all.

Did Jason say this on the "Bachelorette Beatdown" perhaps? A few posters who watched it said he was on there. I guess when the producers want a proposal they lie to the F2 and tell them they're the F1. After hearing this, I believe now more than ever that they told Ben he was F1. It explains a few things like why he ignored how upset Ashley looked before he proposed. He probably thought she was about to cry tears of joy and love for him.

bluwavz wrote:Did Jason say this on the "Bachelorette Beatdown" perhaps? A few posters who watched it said he was on there. I guess when the producers want a proposal they lie to the F2 and tell them they're the F1. After hearing this, I believe now more than ever that they told Ben he was F1. It explains a few things like why he ignored how upset Ashley looked before he proposed. He probably thought she was about to cry tears of joy and love for him.

Yes he did. If you can get pass the three stooges that show is pretty good.

Rosepetal wrote:

bluwavz wrote:Did Jason say this on the "Bachelorette Beatdown" perhaps? A few posters who watched it said he was on there. I guess when the producers want a proposal they lie to the F2 and tell them they're the F1. After hearing this, I believe now more than ever that they told Ben he was F1. It explains a few things like why he ignored how upset Ashley looked before he proposed. He probably thought she was about to cry tears of joy and love for him.

Yes he did. If you can get pass the three stooges that show is pretty good.

Thank you, Rosepetal. The three stooges are actually what made me stop watching, though I do find Wes amusing at times. :laughingoutlou

I might actually sit down and watch this one. I'm really interested in what Jason has to say.

onlyme wrote:

bluwavz wrote:

DMBFan wrote:

bluwavz wrote:

DMBFan wrote:

Love_Me wrote:Not to bring Fiji man up again. I want to put this to rest and gain some type of cloture. So here it goes...

He knew Ben was either the F1 or F2. I am thinking now as strange as it might seem that he saw Ben purpose and maybe thought she said yes. Then he found out that JP was the one she would marry and not Ben hence his change in who the F1 would be. He said Ben was at the Westin and it turns out that was true. So were JP and Ashley at some point. He did get a couple of things right, but missed the most important thing of actually knowing the outcome. Oh well it all worked out and isn't worth discussing anymore.


I just wanted to post one last thing about it because I think it is always best to keep an opened mind about certain things until the truth is known whenever that might be.

I was thinking about Fiji man yesterday...his she "make it up with Ben" has me thinking that it was a faked proposal & ending and Ben was in on it, but who know...

I thought Ben sounded too bitter for him to be in on it. Especially when he told Ashley that JP's a wonderful guy and he's sure they'll have a nice life together. He still sounded bitter at times to me at the ATFR, too.

You're right, he did. I just don't get how it was sooooo obvious to so many people, but he was oblivious. The producers must have really done a number on him (and Ashley to a certain extent, except I have to cut her slack as I think there is pressure on her that we have now way of knowing).

There are a few reasons why I think he was oblivious, but not any of the other contestants. One is that the only date that JP and Ben were on together was the orphanage group date in episode 4. On this date, Ashley said in front of all the other guys that she was developing strong feelings for Ben and then she gave him the rose. If at this point he thought Ashley had strong feelings for JP, getting the rose and having Ashley declare her feelings for him in front of all the guys probably made him forget all about it. This is the only date Ben would've been able to see JP and Ashley interact and it was early on. He knew JP had strong feelings for Ashley, but he had no way of knowing if Ashley felt the same way.

Another reason he may have thought Ashley would pick him is he had spent more overall time with her than JP. JP didn't have any kind of date in episode 2, while Ben had a date in every episode. Both of JP's 1-on-1 dates were evening dates, while Ben's were both all day, with one being overnight. Ben was also under the impression that Ashley picks who she goes on dates with and when. In episode 5, he thanked her for picking him for the 1-on-1 date, though we know that it was TPTB that picked him. Ben may have incorrectly assumed that Ashley picked him for the overnight date and that it meant she liked him the best out of all the guys. We as sleuthers know that TPTB picked him for the overnight date because Ashley meant for him to be F2. Ben didn't know this, though. Quite a few posters have wondered how Ben could not notice how upset Ashley looked before he proposed to her. The only explanation I can come up for this one is that the sun was in his eyes. He did look like he was squinting. :laughingoutlou

Add TPTB to the mix and you get the mess we saw at the FRC.

And all the while producers are whispering little ideas into Ben's ear that he might be the F1...

bluwavz wrote:

Rosepetal wrote:

bluwavz wrote:Did Jason say this on the "Bachelorette Beatdown" perhaps? A few posters who watched it said he was on there. I guess when the producers want a proposal they lie to the F2 and tell them they're the F1. After hearing this, I believe now more than ever that they told Ben he was F1. It explains a few things like why he ignored how upset Ashley looked before he proposed. He probably thought she was about to cry tears of joy and love for him.

Yes he did. If you can get pass the three stooges that show is pretty good.

Thank you, Rosepetal. The three stooges are actually what made me stop watching, though I do find Wes amusing at times. :laughingoutlou

I might actually sit down and watch this one. I'm really interested in what Jason has to say.

Are they all actually available to watch?? Where would I find them?

nutty1 wrote:

bluwavz wrote:

Rosepetal wrote:

bluwavz wrote:Did Jason say this on the "Bachelorette Beatdown" perhaps? A few posters who watched it said he was on there. I guess when the producers want a proposal they lie to the F2 and tell them they're the F1. After hearing this, I believe now more than ever that they told Ben he was F1. It explains a few things like why he ignored how upset Ashley looked before he proposed. He probably thought she was about to cry tears of joy and love for him.

Yes he did. If you can get pass the three stooges that show is pretty good.

Thank you, Rosepetal. The three stooges are actually what made me stop watching, though I do find Wes amusing at times. :laughingoutlou

I might actually sit down and watch this one. I'm really interested in what Jason has to say.

Are they all actually available to watch?? Where would I find them?

Yep. Here's the link to watch them all:

http://rtvzone.com/VIDEO_BacheloretteBeatdown.php

The only episode they didn't do a recap for is episode 1 and I believe the MTA.

Rosepetal wrote:

bluwavz wrote:Did Jason say this on the "Bachelorette Beatdown" perhaps? A few posters who watched it said he was on there. I guess when the producers want a proposal they lie to the F2 and tell them they're the F1. After hearing this, I believe now more than ever that they told Ben he was F1. It explains a few things like why he ignored how upset Ashley looked before he proposed. He probably thought she was about to cry tears of joy and love for him.

Yes he did. If you can get pass the three stooges that show is pretty good.

Another thing that Jason said (and I believe he probably was told this by Deanna regarding her season) was that they very possibly told Ashley that she needed to let Ben propose to her in order to give him the chance to show a lot of emotion, and then he would be a shoo in to become the next Bachelor. Isn't it likely that Deanna was told the same thing by producers in order to get her to go along with letting Jason propose to her (and that's why Jason knows they do this sort of thing)?

They are all so obviously manipulated so that the producers get the exact ending they want season after season, that I am really shocked that so many people still seem to find it so hard to believe.