Re: The Bachelor: Women Tell All - 3/04 - Discussion Thread

[luvstx]

Why do you feel that AshLee felt "completely deceived" by Sean? Do you think he said things to her (ILY, perhaps) that we just didn't see? Hope not.

[elyn]

Why do you feel that AshLee felt "completely deceived" by Sean? Do you think he said things to her (ILY, perhaps) that we just didn't see? Hope not.

There was an interview (posted today? I can't remember where) in which Ashlee said Sean had told her (presumably during their alone time) that she had no reason to worry. I think that might be it.

[jcrbil]

He may truly have felt that at the time.... he did know she would be blindsided by being sent home. Remember, she had the first date of the week(even though it was shown second)- and I don't believe he had fallen in love with anyone by then... and I'm sure if he did say that, if he could have eaten his words, he would have.

[elyn]

He may truly have felt that at the time.... he did know she would be blindsided by being sent home. Remember, she had the first date of the week(even though it was shown second)- and I don't believe he had fallen in love with anyone by then... and I'm sure if he did say that, if he could have eaten his words, he would have.

Yes, she was the first date of the week, and I think he might have still been in the mindset where he was trying to focus on each relationship individually, and he still had questions about Catherine's compatibility with him. It's also crossed my mind that AshLee may have been his true F2 at that point, and he later decided it would be kinder to send her home at F3.

[luvstx]

Why do you feel that AshLee felt "completely deceived" by Sean? Do you think he said things to her (ILY, perhaps) that we just didn't see? Hope not.

There was an interview (posted today? I can't remember where) in which Ashlee said Sean had told her (presumably during their alone time) that she had no reason to worry. I think that might be it.

Thanks. I hadn't seen/heard that.

I am sure that Sean regrets having said that. And I'm not trying to defend him here. But it must be difficult for any of the leads to find things to say that would still make it seem like they are 'into' the F3s without leading them on too much. I cringe when contestants say "I love you"....and in Sean's case he just gets to say "I love hearing that." I am sure there have been leads who would rather say "I wish you didn't!" but their hands and tongues are tied.

But AshLee deserved to be mad and hurt. But I also think she didn't do herself any favors by seemingt to forget that there were other women vying for Sean's affections.

[jcrbil]

Sean anticipated she would be hurt- a lot. It would have been far worse to hurt her the next week. We will never know what was said behind closed doors, certainly, but given the things we DID hear AshLee say, over and over, she may have heard what she wanted to hear, too.

Whatever AshLee says- whether it's in anger or whether it is with the perspective of three months and watching the show back- I think Sean's response will be the more interesting part. We are all sort of expecting AshLee to blast him.

[MVMom39forever]

Sarah is the fan favorite and Desiree is America's sweetheart. True, both are lovely ladies but how does ABC reference Sean's Final 2?

"The special also includes a sneak peek at the Season Finale and the final two bachelorettes - Catherine, whose sisters weren't very supportive of Sean and Catherine's relationship, and Lindsay, the woman who got out of the limousine on the first night in a wedding dress -- who are competing for Sean's heart and the final rose."

WTH?! Is it me or are Catherine and Lindsay just getting no respect whatsoever this season? It seems really strange when they BOTh seem to be wonderful, kind and talented women - not to mention gorgeous.

Pure guesses on my part ... but ... makes me wonder if Fleiss is angry for Lindsay turning down Bachelorette and almost trying to break up Sean & Catherine before finale airs so she can be the next Bachelorette.

[Barbarossa]

Sarah is the fan favorite and Desiree is America's sweetheart. True, both are lovely ladies but how does ABC reference Sean's Final 2?

"The special also includes a sneak peek at the Season Finale and the final two bachelorettes - Catherine, whose sisters weren't very supportive of Sean and Catherine's relationship, and Lindsay, the woman who got out of the limousine on the first night in a wedding dress -- who are competing for Sean's heart and the final rose."

WTH?! Is it me or are Catherine and Lindsay just getting no respect whatsoever this season? It seems really strange when they BOTh seem to be wonderful, kind and talented women - not to mention gorgeous.

Pure guesses on my part ... but ... makes me wonder if Fleiss is angry for Lindsay turning down Bachelorette and almost trying to break up Sean & Catherine before finale airs so she can be the next Bachelorette.

(Sigh) pardon my eternal cynicism but the simple answer is that they don't care about Catherine or Lindsay (if you believe Reality Stan about Lindsay not being the Bachelorette) Lindsay and Catherine are "former" contestants. If the Dweebster is to be believed, that makes the other two finalists to be the next lead.

This show discards people like old coke cans.

[moonchild]

Why do you feel that AshLee felt "completely deceived" by Sean? Do you think he said things to her (ILY, perhaps) that we just didn't see? Hope not.

There was an interview (posted today? I can't remember where) in which Ashlee said Sean had told her (presumably during their alone time) that she had no reason to worry. I think that might be it.

AshLee in an ITM interview after the rose ceremony where Lesley was let go, said, " This rose to me tells me I CAN trust. I can't describe the overwhelming love that I have for him. This is my husband. And, love DOES conquer all.

Then on her HTD while sitting out in a field in another ITM, she says, " I stepped out of my comfort zone and I trust this man and he has told me to trust him, that he is going to be the man to protect my heart.

Then we are given a shot of Sean telling AshLee, " You should feel pretty confident in what we have."

I know that had to be what he was feeling at the time and things changed for him. But at the same time, I can see why she feels betrayed and he continued to reassure her on their FD.

[Sable]

Why do you feel that AshLee felt "completely deceived" by Sean? Do you think he said things to her (ILY, perhaps) that we just didn't see? Hope not.

There was an interview (posted today? I can't remember where) in which Ashlee said Sean had told her (presumably during their alone time) that she had no reason to worry. I think that might be it.

AshLee in an ITM interview after the rose ceremony where Lesley was let go, said, " This rose to me tells me I CAN trust. I can't describe the overwhelming love that I have for him. This is my husband. And, love DOES conquer all.

Then on her HTD while sitting out in a field in another ITM, she says, " I stepped out of my comfort zone and I trust this man and he has told me to trust him, that he is going to be the man to protect my heart.

Then we are given a shot of Sean telling AshLee, " You should feel pretty confident in what we have."

I know that had to be what he was feeling at the time and things changed for him. But at the same time, I can see why she feels betrayed and he continued to reassure her on their FD.

I think also that AshLee got the first rose at the F4 rose ceremony, so that probably gave her reassurance/confidence going into the fantasy dates episode.

[HowSoonIsNow]

Why do you feel that AshLee felt "completely deceived" by Sean? Do you think he said things to her (ILY, perhaps) that we just didn't see? Hope not.

There was an interview (posted today? I can't remember where) in which Ashlee said Sean had told her (presumably during their alone time) that she had no reason to worry. I think that might be it.

AshLee in an ITM interview after the rose ceremony where Lesley was let go, said, " This rose to me tells me I CAN trust. I can't describe the overwhelming love that I have for him. This is my husband. And, love DOES conquer all.

Then on her HTD while sitting out in a field in another ITM, she says, " I stepped out of my comfort zone and I trust this man and he has told me to trust him, that he is going to be the man to protect my heart.

Then we are given a shot of Sean telling AshLee, " You should feel pretty confident in what we have."

I know that had to be what he was feeling at the time and things changed for him. But at the same time, I can see why she feels betrayed and he continued to reassure her on their FD.

I think also that AshLee got the first rose at the F4 rose ceremony, so that probably gave her reassurance/confidence going into the fantasy dates episode.

For the most part, AshLee was leading herself on, IMO. Sean was just along for her ride.

But, I rewatched the FD episode last night. In the FS, Sean says to AshLee "I felt confident, even way back then, that this [relationship] was going to work out." IMO that's above and beyond what he needed to say to AshLee and crosses the bounds into "leading her on". I'm sure there was more said off-camera that she could point out.

If SAsh's was the 1st FD/FS filmed, and if it's true that Sean was seriously considering letting go Catherine at HTD/F4, then in the moment Sean may have genuinely considered AshLee to be his F1 during their FD/FS date, or perhaps his fallback F1 if his upcoming FD/FS date with Catherine wasn't going to work out. And once he decided to take Catherine along to the FRC, he probably decided to spare AshLee an FRC dumping by dumping her at F3. So, in a way, AshLee might actually have been Sean's F2 in his heart, since he obviously didn't give Lindsay that same care and consideration (assuming he was certain that Cat was his F1 by then, per his convo with Chris H).

My 2 cents.

[Sprite]

Why do you feel that AshLee felt "completely deceived" by Sean? Do you think he said things to her (ILY, perhaps) that we just didn't see? Hope not.

There was an interview (posted today? I can't remember where) in which Ashlee said Sean had told her (presumably during their alone time) that she had no reason to worry. I think that might be it.

AshLee in an ITM interview after the rose ceremony where Lesley was let go, said, " This rose to me tells me I CAN trust. I can't describe the overwhelming love that I have for him. This is my husband. And, love DOES conquer all.

Then on her HTD while sitting out in a field in another ITM, she says, " I stepped out of my comfort zone and I trust this man and he has told me to trust him, that he is going to be the man to protect my heart.

Then we are given a shot of Sean telling AshLee, " You should feel pretty confident in what we have."

I know that had to be what he was feeling at the time and things changed for him. But at the same time, I can see why she feels betrayed and he continued to reassure her on their FD.

I think also that AshLee got the first rose at the F4 rose ceremony, so that probably gave her reassurance/confidence going into the fantasy dates episode.

For the most part, AshLee was leading herself on, IMO. Sean was just along for her ride.

But, I rewatched the FD episode last night. In the FS, Sean says to AshLee "I felt confident, even way back then, that this [relationship] was going to work out." IMO that's above and beyond what he needed to say to AshLee and crosses the bounds into "leading her on". I'm sure there was more said off-camera that she could point out.

If SAsh's was the 1st FD/FS filmed, and if it's true that Sean was seriously considering letting go Catherine at HTD/F4, then in the moment Sean may have genuinely considered AshLee to be his F1 during their FD/FS date, or perhaps his fallback F1 if his upcoming FD/FS date with Catherine wasn't going to work out. And once he decided to take Catherine along to the FRC, he probably decided to spare AshLee an FRC dumping by dumping her at F3. So, in a way, AshLee might actually have been Sean's F2 in his heart, since he obviously didn't give Lindsay that same care and consideration (assuming he was certain that Cat was his F1 by then, per his convo with Chris H).

My 2 cents.

I just want to point out that the highlighted part could work both ways. The problem with a show like this is that there is so much footage and we only get to see a tiny, tiny, tiny portion of it...the parts that only fit with the story the producers want to show us. There could just as well be things that were said that another person would have understood to mean that feelings had changed, you are not the one. They want us to think that Sean broke her heart and it would be hard to do that if they showed him hinting that she is not the one.

In this circumstance several things came into play...Sean's very sincerity and attempts to remain open to all the ladies, his genuine compassion, plus his awkwardness when trying to let someone down while maintaining the premise of the show; producers desire for drama; and AshLee's focus on someone healing her blinded her to the regular signals that many would read as caution, go slow. She misinterpreted what Sean wanted...her no fun approach, and she paid no attention to his body language during that last date...his hands down when kissing her on that beach... a definate no no. Despite this, I'm still not sure that she didn't in some part of her brain suspect what was to come. It is hard to tell because of editing, but, to me she already had that icy cold stare before he even started handing out the roses, indicating that she suspected something was up.

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