Re: The Bachelor: Women Tell All - 3/04 - Discussion Thread

[Sable]

First post-I usually lurk:-). I think Ashley convinced herself she was the F1. I mean, the girl had a ring picked out! I think after Dez left, she probably thought the other 2 girls (being younger and more playful) are no competition to her.

I'm convinced Sean may have said something like "i'm not worried about the others girls; or I'm don't care about the other 2 girls Right now, I'm with you" and in Ashlee's mind it meant something totally different!

I also think producers put her up to it...what better way to create drama for ATFR.

I think your guess is pretty close to the truth, Steel2009. Ashlee would be convinced he said he has no feelings for the others and Sean would be convinced he said no such thing.

I don't see that point for Ashlee to carry on about this. I wasn't much of a fan before this and she's completely turned me off by being so vindictive. I also don't think she was Sean's favorite in that last few weeks at all. His BL tells it all. I never thought she was a good match in any case because of being so rigid and serious. She should never have come on the show imo.

I so agree w/you that AshLee should not have carried on about what Sean may have or may not have said in the fantasy suite. I am still a big fan of hers, but it was a he said/she said type of situation and she could have easily misinterpreted what Sean told her and/or Sean really did say that, but it had a different meaning for him at the time - like someone said, he actually meant that he didn't want to worry about those girls right in that moment because he was spending time w/AshLee. Unfortunately, the premise of this show is to lead people on, especially the last few contestants, otherwise there wouldn't be a show. I don't think that AshLee was seriously in the running for the Bachelorette, but after her performance on the WTA, I can see why they went w/someone like Dez. I still do wish AshLee the best for the future and want her to find the love of her life. She really was one of my favorites this season, despite her being so serious and intense all the time.

[deedreamer]

I think AshLee reacted in a way that was natural to her. If at age 32 she is still harboring resentment at being abanonded as a child even though for more than 90% of her life she has had a loving and stable home...then it is going to be in her nature for her to harbor resentment towards Sean for letting her go. She is not one who can look at the bigger picture but has to pick at the smaller issues that do not fit in with her vision of perfect alignment. That is probably the same reason that she would be fantastic at what she does....organize. But most people can not live in a perfectly ordered and rigid manner as she does. To put it bluntly she is just wound too tightly. She lives her life in the black and white and we all know that in the real world there is a heck of a lot of grey. I feel sorry for her. What peace or happiness can she have in her life if she is always looking for all the ducks to be in a row. Most of life will dissapoint her because life and love are messy and as much as you try somethings just can't be organized.

[moonchild]

First of all, AshLee and her whole story (up to this date in time) make me feel so lucky for what I have had in my life. No child should ever have to go through what she did.

The unfortunate thing is that experience has become her whole identity. She continually plays the role of the victim. She told Sean about it the first night. It was easy for Sean to get sucked in because he sees part of his role as a "man" as that of a protector. And clearly, she was painting herself as a person that needed protecting. Instead of looking inward and taking responsibility herself, she has to blame someone else. She blamed her mother for her decision to get married at 17. Instead of saying I made a stupid 17 year old choice, it was, it was the ONLY way I could get away from my mother. And, as we saw, she couldn't say, I see and understand now that we weren't the best match. I wish you nothing but the best because I cared deeply for you. Instead, Sean you weren't who I thought YOU were ......you are nothing but a frat boy that leads women on. When he was explaining why he had a change of heart, I doubt that she was even listening.

On the other hand, Catherine had two incredibly horrible experiences as a child (again, how lucky am I!). She told Sean about them but only after the relationship started becoming serious. They were definitely things he needed to know about her, not because they define her but because these experiences help shape who she is today.

For those that keep saying Sean is immature.....he like practical jokes, etc. Sean worships his dad and wants to be just like his dad and wants to have a relationship just like his mom and dad. His dad is a practical joker.....it is what it is.

I think that Sean did learn a lot during this season. That he can be with a strong independent woman and still be her protector while she takes responsibility for her own happiness. That it is better to be with someone that makes you happy every time you are with them, than to be with someone that matches you bullet point by bullet point on paper. And quite possibly, that you might have to compromise to be with the one that you truly love.

[Longhornfan]

[quote="pavalygurl"]

While I can't imagine Sean saying the exact words that AshLee said, I can see him "over promising" in some way that she interpreted more seriously than he meant. Also, if she's been the frontrunner all season, by this point, why didn't he know her better and be more in tune or intuitive to how she would take his words and actions so he could choose them carefully - especially if he knew he was gonna dump her?

All season, he has been pretty guilty of either (1) being overly enthusiastic - and over promising or (2) fickle..i.e. caught up in the moment until something better comes along on the next date.

Sorry, I'm just not really impressed with his TB performance. I don't think his actions were intentionally harmful but came from a lack of experience and being too much of a "company man". Frankly, I had hoped to see him be more mature, measured and serious about finding someone to marry and wanted to believe in the ending. Instead I feel like I've been watching Sean's big adventure.

This is what I am talking about. While Sean was not my first choice going in, I had nothing against him. What I feel now is that he is really socially immature with women and I can't reconcile that with just being "religious". He was looking "for his high school sweetheart" and that's about the level of maturity we saw. The dates were challenges to the women, with them having to "prove" themselves worthy. When Dez dared to question where things were going, he took umbrage and she was dismissed. He has a sense of humor about "pranks" which parallels a teenager. I ended up not liking him very much. :Frown:

First of all, I want to say that I don't think that Sean is a bad guy, but he also is not perfect. I think that he probably made some missteps along the way. And I agree with Becca that Sean seems to lack a lot of experience in the dating world, and his approach of "being in the moment" with each woman led him to saying the same phrases over and over to practically all of the women. Everytime that he said "I am crazy about you" to one of the women, it started to sound like a stock phrase, rather than an endearment to someone who was special. So, for that reason, I felt like Sean was coming across as fickle (or wishy washy) as well.

And as for all the dates where it appeared that the women needed to "prove" themselves worthy, I sometimes felt like I was watching an episode of Fear Factor instead of the Bachelor. Perhaps the NBC show "Love In The Wild" would have been a better place for Sean to be searching for love....just saying.

But, in the end, it is up to each of us to come to our own conclusions. I don't like to put labels on these contestants, because I don't really know any of them in real life. So, I just go by what I SEE, and I might be in the minority here. But, that's okay. Life would be boring if we all saw things the same way.

[Baseball Mom]

Had to come out of lurking and give you props for this....
Thoughtful and considerate...great post, Moonchild!

[umngirl]

First of all, AshLee and her whole story (up to this date in time) make me feel so lucky for what I have had in my life. No child should ever have to go through what she did.

The unfortunate thing is that experience has become her whole identity. She continually plays the role of the victim. She told Sean about it the first night. It was easy for Sean to get sucked in because he sees part of his role as a "man" as that of a protector. And clearly, she was painting herself as a person that needed protecting. Instead of looking inward and taking responsibility herself, she has to blame someone else. She blamed her mother for her decision to get married at 17. Instead of saying I made a stupid 17 year old choice, it was, it was the ONLY way I could get away from my mother. And, as we saw, she couldn't say, I see and understand now that we weren't the best match. I wish you nothing but the best because I cared deeply for you. Instead, Sean you weren't who I thought YOU were ......you are nothing but a frat boy that leads women on. When he was explaining why he had a change of heart, I doubt that she was even listening.

On the other hand, Catherine had two incredibly horrible experiences as a child (again, how lucky am I!). She told Sean about them but only after the relationship started becoming serious. They were definitely things he needed to know about her, not because they define her but because these experiences help shape who she is today.

For those that keep saying Sean is immature.....he like practical jokes, etc. Sean worships his dad and wants to be just like his dad and wants to have a relationship just like his mom and dad. His dad is a practical joker.....it is what it is.

I think that Sean did learn a lot during this season. That he can be with a strong independent woman and still be her protector while she takes responsibility for her own happiness. That it is better to be with someone that makes you happy every time you are with them, than to be with someone that matches you bullet point by bullet point on paper. And quite possibly, that you might have to compromise to be with the one that you truly love.

Excellent, excellent post.

[Kashathediva]

I think AshLee reacted in a way that was natural to her. If at age 32 she is still harboring resentment at being abanonded as a child even though for more than 90% of her life she has had a loving and stable home...then it is going to be in her nature for her to harbor resentment towards Sean for letting her go. She is not one who can look at the bigger picture but has to pick at the smaller issues that do not fit in with her vision of perfect alignment. That is probably the same reason that she would be fantastic at what she does....organize. But most people can not live in a perfectly ordered and rigid manner as she does. To put it bluntly she is just wound too tightly. She lives her life in the black and white and we all know that in the real world there is a heck of a lot of grey. I feel sorry for her. What peace or happiness can she have in her life if she is always looking for all the ducks to be in a row. Most of life will dissapoint her because life and love are messy and as much as you try somethings just can't be organized.

There is a lot of your post I agree with totally. So please, even though I am responding to it, do not think I am picking on it because that sincerely is not my intention.
I am responding to AshLee needing to move forward and receive help. I would not be surprised if she has not had help during her years. What happened during her first 6 years of life composed the first 19% of her life. Think about that. Almost 20% of her life she dealt with god only knows what--because we only know what she felt comfortable disclosing and what the machine felt they could exploit. I bet there is a lot more we do not know, nor need to know.
Thankfully, there are many of us here that have normal lives and had normal childhoods. But that is not the case for everyone. :Frown: What happens to people as children help mold and create their reality and color them as they grow into adults. There are children who are abused or abandoned or have other horrible things that happen to them due to no fault of their own and unfortunately it is part of who they are like religion or culture. They may even have positive tools they have acquired to deal and use them until life on life's terms raises it's ugly head and triggers those deep rooted feelings/issues. Isn't that partly what goes hand and hand with Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome?
I am not making an excuse for what we saw on tv--we all have life issues. However, I think we need to take in consideration the exploitation and manipulations that can go on with this show in order to get a desired response. Being on this show, is a prime example of a perfect storm for a monster raising it's head for someone like AshLee. This was not the best life choice for her and hopefully she will grow from it. From the POV of the Machine--great cast person to exploit sensitive issues for a season, then toss out like day old pizza.
I was told once that control is a coping mechanism we use to deal with fear and insecurities. Like any other tool it has it's proper use. It's too bad this show and TPTB don't behave more responsibly with it.

[deedreamer]

I think AshLee reacted in a way that was natural to her. If at age 32 she is still harboring resentment at being abanonded as a child even though for more than 90% of her life she has had a loving and stable home...then it is going to be in her nature for her to harbor resentment towards Sean for letting her go. She is not one who can look at the bigger picture but has to pick at the smaller issues that do not fit in with her vision of perfect alignment. That is probably the same reason that she would be fantastic at what she does....organize. But most people can not live in a perfectly ordered and rigid manner as she does. To put it bluntly she is just wound too tightly. She lives her life in the black and white and we all know that in the real world there is a heck of a lot of grey. I feel sorry for her. What peace or happiness can she have in her life if she is always looking for all the ducks to be in a row. Most of life will dissapoint her because life and love are messy and as much as you try somethings just can't be organized.

There is a lot of your post I agree with totally. So please, even though I am responding to it, do not think I am picking on it because that sincerely is not my intention.
I am responding to AshLee needing to move forward and receive help. I would not be surprised if she has not had help during her years. What happened during her first 6 years of life composed the first 19% of her life. Think about that. Almost 20% of her life she dealt with god only knows what--because we only know what she felt comfortable disclosing and what the machine felt they could exploit. I bet there is a lot more we do not know, nor need to know.
Thankfully, there are many of us here that have normal lives and had normal childhoods. But that is not the case for everyone. :Frown: What happens to people as children help mold and create their reality and color them as they grow into adults. There are children who are abused or abandoned or have other horrible things that happen to them due to no fault of their own and unfortunately it is part of who they are like religion or culture. They may even have positive tools they have acquired to deal and use them until life on life's terms raises it's ugly head and triggers those deep rooted feelings/issues. Isn't that partly what goes hand and hand with Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome?
I am not making an excuse for what we saw on tv--we all have life issues. However, I think we need to take in consideration the exploitation and manipulations that can go on with this show in order to get a desired response. Being on this show, is a prime example of a perfect storm for a monster raising it's head for someone like AshLee. This was not the best life choice for her and hopefully she will grow from it. From the POV of the Machine--great cast person to exploit sensitive issues for a season, then toss out like day old pizza.
I was told once that control is a coping mechanism we use to deal with fear and insecurities. Like any other tool it has it's proper use. It's too bad this show and TPTB don't behave more responsibly with it.

I don't feel that you are picking at my post. I work for a doctor who is one of the worlds leading doctors treating people with the use of hypnotherapy and we deal with people that have been abandoned and abused all the time. That was why I was making that point that it is AshLee's natural reaction to life. Some people have things like this happen to them and travel through life learning as they go that while things were horrible as a child that those events do not have to determine how they react to things in their adult life. Others like AshLee have a deeply wounded inner child and until she receives proper treatment will always hold herself tightly wound in order to control the things happening in her life. It is her coping skill in order not to let anything bad hapen in her life again. The only problem with that is that try as hard as we can we cannot control everything. That is why I said I feel sorry for her. She is using control as a coping mechanism and that sets her up for sure failure and disappointment when she can't control everything. I don't think she is bat-shit crazy as some have suggested, I think she is deeply wounded. She reacted in the only "normal" way she has known...by trying to be in control. I actually think that she and Tierra have a lot more in common than they think.

[kcsgramma]

I really don't remember my first 6 years of life and if she has such vivid memories it must have been told to her over and over again which
I don't see her parents doing! Maybe it's just me but I think the PTB got that small part of her story and ran with and she went along! Sorry to be so cynical!

[Kashathediva]

I really don't remember my first 6 years of life and if she has such vivid memories it must have been told to her over and over again which
I don't see her parents doing! Maybe it's just me but I think the PTB got that small part of her story and ran with and she went along! Sorry to be so cynical!

I can vividly remember things in my life since about the age of 2. Yes, 2 and the only reason I can pinpoint that age is because of my surroundings, where I was at that age--we only lived in that particular place until I was 3. And those memories are as clear as things that happened at other ages. They were not things told to me; that is just when I began in my life to have memory. My parents were shocked when I was able to recall in such detail too many memories that I had at a very young age.
We are all different.

[umngirl]

It's funny, I'm sitting in Starbucks right now listening to a group of sweet old ladies talk about the Bachelor. They all agree that AshLee may just be too much for Sean to handle and that they wished she hadn't confronted him because it made her look bad. The best part is them comparing AshLee to a friend of theirs who apparently acts much the same way. It's always funny to hear others' perspectives. They also talked about the two girls he has left and one said, "He better pick that Catherine girl or I'm gonna come find him and give him a piece of my mind."

[deedreamer]

I really don't remember my first 6 years of life and if she has such vivid memories it must have been told to her over and over again which
I don't see her parents doing! Maybe it's just me but I think the PTB got that small part of her story and ran with and she went along! Sorry to be so cynical!

I can vividly remember things in my life since about the age of 2. Yes, 2 and the only reason I can pinpoint that age is because of my surroundings, where I was at that age--we only lived in that particular place until I was 3. And those memories are as clear as things that happened at other ages. They were not things told to me; that is just when I began in my life to have memory. My parents were shocked when I was able to recall in such detail too many memories that I had at a very young age.
We are all different.

For sure...I too remember vividly things from a very young age. I once described a place to my mother in sharp detail and she didn't know how I could remember it as it was her grandfather's mill and I had only been there when I was 5 months old and no one ever talked about the place for me to have heard stories about it. It is amazing how the human mind can remember and describe things that we experienced even before we had the language to name the things we saw and experienced. Each person remembers differently from different points in their life.

[Sponsored content]