Re: The Bachelor: Women Tell All - 3/04 - Discussion Thread

[Archer23]

Whether Ash misunderstood or not, Sean "was not into her" anymore. She's got to accept that. It probably just bugs her because she couldn't control the outcome. Perhaps after spending alone time with Ash, it really hit home what she was really like and after spending alone time with Linds and Cat realized that he preferred being with them. Perhaps he realized that even though Ash was a perfect on paper match, she wasn't the perfect connection. .. especially after his date with Cat when they had such an amazing talk/connection in the Fantasy suite. He looked smitten with Cat on that Fantasy date.

I think this pretty much nails it. It kind of reminds me of: (1) the way Ashley described Ben as her physical type and felt like she had the most in common with him, only to end up with JP; (2) Ben saying pre-show that he didn't want any models in his cast, only to end up choosing Courtney; and (3) Emily acknowledging that, on paper, Sean was the kind of guy she thought she should choose, only to eliminate him in Curaçao. I believe Sean when he says that AshLee was his frontrunner, because I think she would have slotted into his life most seamlessly. But no matter what his head was telling him, his heart was telling him something different, much like the leads who came before him.

[moonchild]

[quote="HowSoonIsNow"

ITA, but I think it's also possible that he wasn't misleading but genuinely had a change of heart. Ashlee's was the first HTD (IRL not on film), so he might have gone in a diff direction after experiencing the next 2 HTDs. If she was genuinely his front runner until then, then he probably said things with confidence that he regrets now.[/quote]

Whether Ash misunderstood or not, Sean "was not into her" anymore. She's got to accept that. It probably just bugs her because she couldn't control the outcome. Perhaps after spending alone time with Ash, it really hit home what she was really like and after spending alone time with Linds and Cat realized that he preferred being with them. Perhaps he realized that even though Ash was a perfect on paper match, she wasn't the perfect connection. .. especially after his date with Cat when they had such an amazing talk/connection in the Fantasy suite. He looked smitten with Cat on that Fantasy date.[/quote]

I think Sean knew AshLee wasn't F1 on HTD's or even before. He didn't want to live a life of fixing her, plain and simple. He did give her words of encouragement on their FD. Of course these were words on steroids to AshLee's ears. I don't think he said anymore to her than he did to Cat and Linds, she just ran with it rather than staying in the reality of the situation. What makes me question what she was saying tonight is the fact that she couldn't say exactly what he said to her and changed it a couple of times. You know if the love of your life says something to make you think that you are the "one", you remember verbatim what is said. It is imprinted on your mind. Especially, if you feel that it seals the deal for the rest of your life. I do think he thought she was the "one" early on, but switched gears the more time he spent with Cat and Linds and realized the laughter and the joy was missing.

[docnash14]

Allow me to share a thought from a mans perspective:

The only reason a man would have lied to a woman in the fantasy suite scenario is to get sexual favors.

Everyone knows Sean is celibate. It's strongly suggested he is celibate with his fiancée. So why would Sean lie to AshLee?

Answer: he wouldn't. That was one of the most vindictive things I've ever seen.

What I found remarkable is that AshLee challenged Tierra about questioning her integrity (which the editors were very careful to keep in the show).... and then she did the same to Sean.....

It is clear from the comments made that she still feels like the woman scorned- and she had built HUGE expectations about him- ones that he would never in a million years lived up to- because even a saint would not be able to rise to the standard she was expecting. If she felt he was like a frat boy around all the other women, but not with her, she should have come to the conclusion that he had not been himself (at least not 100% himself with her) and instead of recriminations she should know that they were not right for each other. When in public, it is ALWAYS better to take the high road.

Jcrbil, that is what struck me the most in watching tonight as well. She took such great exception with Tierra questioning her integrity and calling her (AshLee) a liar and then turned right around and perseverated in essentially calling Sean the same thing.

That being said, I do believe that AshLee truly believes that Sean said those things to her. We all have a filter with which we receive incoming stimuli - some of our filters are more clogged than others. By her account, AshLee was convinced that Sean was going to choose her and, accordingly, her filter likely interpreted things he said to support that conviction.

And that being said, I totally agree with you that the graceful thing would have been for her to let it go (at least in public) even if she wasn't able to do it quite yet internally.

[Guest]

Did AshLee even watch the same show we did all this time? To even suggest that Sean was the Southern gentleman to her but frat boy to the two other girls proves how subjective her interpretation is of what she saw.

[jcrbil]

Allow me to share a thought from a mans perspective:

The only reason a man would have lied to a woman in the fantasy suite scenario is to get sexual favors.

Everyone knows Sean is celibate. It's strongly suggested he is celibate with his fiancée. So why would Sean lie to AshLee?

Answer: he wouldn't. That was one of the most vindictive things I've ever seen.

What I found remarkable is that AshLee challenged Tierra about questioning her integrity (which the editors were very careful to keep in the show).... and then she did the same to Sean.....

It is clear from the comments made that she still feels like the woman scorned- and she had built HUGE expectations about him- ones that he would never in a million years lived up to- because even a saint would not be able to rise to the standard she was expecting. If she felt he was like a frat boy around all the other women, but not with her, she should have come to the conclusion that he had not been himself (at least not 100% himself with her) and instead of recriminations she should know that they were not right for each other. When in public, it is ALWAYS better to take the high road.

Jcrbil, that is what struck me the most in watching tonight as well. She took such great exception with Tierra questioning her integrity and calling her (AshLee) a liar and then turned right around and perseverated in essentially calling Sean the same thing.

That being said, I do believe that AshLee truly believes that Sean said those things to her. We all have a filter with which we receive incoming stimuli - some of our filters are more clogged than others. By her account, AshLee was convinced that Sean was going to choose her and, accordingly, her filter likely interpreted things he said to support that conviction.

And that being said, I totally agree with you that the graceful thing would have been for her to let it go (at least in public) even if she wasn't able to do it quite yet internally.

I agree with you Doc that she believes he said that to her. I think we've all been there at one time or another- particularly if we wish, so much, for something to be true.

[chicagoowl]

Allow me to share a thought from a mans perspective:

The only reason a man would have lied to a woman in the fantasy suite scenario is to get sexual favors.

Everyone knows Sean is celibate. It's strongly suggested he is celibate with his fiancée. So why would Sean lie to AshLee?

Answer: he wouldn't. That was one of the most vindictive things I've ever seen.

What I found remarkable is that AshLee challenged Tierra about questioning her integrity (which the editors were very careful to keep in the show).... and then she did the same to Sean.....

It is clear from the comments made that she still feels like the woman scorned- and she had built HUGE expectations about him- ones that he would never in a million years lived up to- because even a saint would not be able to rise to the standard she was expecting. If she felt he was like a frat boy around all the other women, but not with her, she should have come to the conclusion that he had not been himself (at least not 100% himself with her) and instead of recriminations she should know that they were not right for each other. When in public, it is ALWAYS better to take the high road.

Jcrbil, that is what struck me the most in watching tonight as well. She took such great exception with Tierra questioning her integrity and calling her (AshLee) a liar and then turned right around and perseverated in essentially calling Sean the same thing.

That being said, I do believe that AshLee truly believes that Sean said those things to her. We all have a filter with which we receive incoming stimuli - some of our filters are more clogged than others. By her account, AshLee was convinced that Sean was going to choose her and, accordingly, her filter likely interpreted things he said to support that conviction.

And that being said, I totally agree with you that the graceful thing would have been for her to let it go (at least in public) even if she wasn't able to do it quite yet internally.

The bolded are all good points. I think the majority of the public sympathized w/Ash when she was dumped last week. But I think her WTA appearance ruined any chances of her becoming Bachette. The majority of the public and Bachelor nation now seem to think she's delusional and/or has major issues. She should have taken the road that Des did, which was to talk about her hurt feelings and just say it wasn't meant to be. Ash clearly isn't over Sean and isn't over the fact that she couldn't control Sean or the outcome.

[eunbach12]

Sigh. What I got from tonight's episode: Ashlee should have never, ever, ever* been on this show.

She seriously had me doing facial contortions tonight. I will just have to un-contort my cheeks (and eyes) and agree with all of you who said that there was some serious misinterpretation at play. Also, as someone who works with children dealing with adoption/abandonment issues, control in any and all situations undoubtedly becomes of utmost importance. We most definitely saw that at play tonight as well. Without going too much further into my opinion on the state of her emotional well-being, Ashlee is a beautiful woman who has overcome so much and I hope she finds healing in the real world.

*Adding in one more EVER for the road...

[sky]

Ali tweeted that there might be something physical happened between Sean and Ashlee, seen her reaction, did Sean sleep with her?

[docnash14]

Sigh. What I got from tonight's episode: Ashlee should have never, ever, ever* been on this show.

She seriously had me doing facial contortions tonight. I will just have to un-contort my cheeks (and eyes) and agree with all of you who said that there was some serious misinterpretation at play. Also, as someone who works with children dealing with adoption/abandonment issues, control in any and all situations undoubtedly becomes of utmost importance. We most definitely saw that at play tonight as well. Without going too much further into my opinion on the state of her emotional well-being, Ashlee is a beautiful woman who has overcome so much and I hope she finds healing in the real world.

*Adding in one more EVER for the road...

As someone who treats adults who were traumatized/abandoned as children, I agree with you. And as I have discussed in previous posts, control is typically a self-protective device in that it attempts to keep the underlying fear and insecurity at bay. Unfortunately, while I agree also with you that it feels of the utmost importance for the individual to hang on to the control doing so precludes healing from occurring - simply put, healing occurs only when the underlying feelings are faced and then embraced.

[eunbach12]

Sigh. What I got from tonight's episode: Ashlee should have never, ever, ever* been on this show.

She seriously had me doing facial contortions tonight. I will just have to un-contort my cheeks (and eyes) and agree with all of you who said that there was some serious misinterpretation at play. Also, as someone who works with children dealing with adoption/abandonment issues, control in any and all situations undoubtedly becomes of utmost importance. We most definitely saw that at play tonight as well. Without going too much further into my opinion on the state of her emotional well-being, Ashlee is a beautiful woman who has overcome so much and I hope she finds healing in the real world.

*Adding in one more EVER for the road...

As someone who treats adults who were traumatized/abandoned as children, I agree with you. And as I have discussed in previous posts, control is typically a self-protective device in that it attempts to keep the underlying fear and insecurity at bay. Unfortunately, while I agree also with you that it feels of the utmost importance for the individual to hang on to the control doing so precludes healing from occurring - simply put, healing occurs only when the underlying feelings are faced and then embraced.

Agreed! (I've always enjoyed reading your posts because you definitely shed some professional light on our discussions). It's what we tell the kids every day- in a nutshell: what happened to you was horrible and we acknowledge that and we don't forget that.... BUT you can't let it control your life or use it as a crutch either for treating yourself or others poorly.

Thanks for what you and anyone else in the mental health field do each day- it is often a thankless (and emotionally depleting) job and I have the utmost respect for you!

[Guest]

@docnash14, maybe you could give ashlee some free therapy. i'm sorta half serious about that. it was kind of sad to watch her unravel like that. while i wouldn't be surprised if sean said things he really shouldn't have i think ashlee also interpreted everything he did say to mean a whole lot more than it did. he did apologize to her at the end, and i thought that was cool on his part, although she didn't seem to accept his apology.

des on the other hand was very gracious and i'm glad she and sean were able to be friendly.

i think sean has made some mistakes unintentionally in how he has handled himself this season, but he's such a lovable guy i think you just have to forgive him. i also like how he tweets making fun of himself. doesn't take himself too seriously. i think he has some maturing to do, but overall he really is a good guy, and i don't think he would intentionally hurt any of these women.

[Guest]

Tenley said this was the most REAL WTA EVER. Maybe she experienced some of what AshLee went through.

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