Courtney Robertson & Humberto Preciado - Bachelor 16 - Discussion

luvlady345 wrote:I believe what she is saying, they all say the same thing....So if Courtney is lying all of them are....

I believe her too.

left to his own devices, Flajnik was no Prince Charming. "Ben said he was 'all picnicked out,'" she explains to Us.Ben said he was 'all picnicked out,'" she explains to Us.

I believe this. He has always seemed like a curmudgeon to me. (Well at least from the little I saw during Ashley's season....I was never impressed with him so I didnt watch his own season.)

chasingpavements wrote:

IrishGal wrote:

Love_Me wrote:Exclusive: Courtney Robertson: "I Felt Brainwashed" on The Bachelor

Celebrity News November 9, 2012 AT 8:00AM By UsWeekly Staff





Courtney Robertson on June 1, 2012 in West Hollywood, CA. Courtney Robertson on June 1, 2012 in West Hollywood, CA. Credit: Todd Oren/WireImage

Champagne picnics. Moonlit strolls. Stunning vistas. And total isolation.

Courtney Robertson says she couldn't resist falling for now-ex Ben Flajnik on The Bachelor in 2011. "In many ways, I felt brainwashed," the model, who filmed for two-plus months without access to TV or social media, tells Us Weekly. "You're so closed off!"

PHOTOS: Reality love gone bad

Now that the engagement is over, the L.A.-based Robertson, 29, regrets being duped by the show's over-the-top romance tactics.

She recalls one date in Switzerland when the San Francisco winemaker, 30, thoughtfully brought popcorn, her favorite snack. "But I realize it wasn't him. It was the producer," she says.

PHOTOS: Biggest Bachelor breakups

After the show wrapped, the long-distance duo rarely saw each other and, left to his own devices, Flajnik was no Prince Charming. "Ben said he was 'all picnicked out,'" she explains to Us.

Robertson was "shocked and hurt" when her fiance was caught kissing other women in February. By October, she knew it was over. "I've never experienced heartache like this," Robertson tells Us. "We had baby names picked out!"

"I put up with more than I should," she says.

PHOTOS: Ben's most romantic Bachelor dates

But the model is now bouncing back -- with Bachelorette alum Arie Luyendyk Jr., 31. "He's a cool guy," she says. "I'm just trying to figure out the next step."

Link

I call foul on this. She got a 1-1 date on the 2nd episode. A hiking picnic with his dog....not exactly Shangrila. Next time she saw him she gave him a note saying she was madly in love with him! There was no time to be brain-washed at that point. She was the one trying to manipulate him and it worked. It was obvious from the M & G that she had one goal which was to win no matter who she stepped on in the process. She's a lying, conniving, attention seeker. It was clear on the show and it certainly is clear now with all her bogus photo ops with Arie. I so wish she'd just go away. :vomit:

I definitely do think that she is trying to portray herself as the victim, and she wasn't AT ALL, but I know that what she is saying IS true. Jillian even said in a recent interview that that's exactly what the producers do - you are completely closed off from the real world and have no access to magazines, tv, internet, music, friends, family, etc. and you have producers telling you that you are perfect for this guy, and how he has been telling them that he's falling in love with you, etc. I wouldn't call it "brain-washing", and I definitely doubt that Ben has been "put her through a lot", but I do think that most people on the show think that they are madly in love...only to realize once they are off the show that they weren't. At all.

You have gotta all remember the high degree of manipulation that goes on behind the scenes. With as much as handlers work with the lead to 'encourage' reactions both suggesting a relationship is brewing and in setting up awkward situations, so they work with the participants - making them think the guy is hotter, or greater, or brighter, or whatever than he really is. They spend as much time painting their lead in "rosey light" to make the girls think he is something more than he really is, as they spend manipulating their leads. Is it brainwashing? In some sense it is: at least as it relates to sensory isolation that they are subjected to. They isolate these people, booze them up, and "work with their minds" by setting the stage for romance to brew where there otherwise wouldn't be and for reactions to be sharper than would be in a normal situation. They subject everyone to hours of psychological scrutiny to specificallly locate their vulnerabilities and they the play upon them. It is a form a brainwashing, even though it is not to the degree of POWs. Even Melissa R. (who went on the show with very distinct motives that was not related to finding love) admitted that there comes a point where there is a 'blur' between what is real and fabricated. Ryan B. said the same thing recently on twitter. And many other alums who are otherwise bright individuals have all said as much in comments and interviews through the years. Even Queen B Trista said in a television interview that the concept/approach of the show changed drastically since she and Ryan met: changing it in a way that forces drama to hype the entertainment factor. Consider all her dates and compare them to what they do now... it isn't the same show.

As for Courtney what validates comment toward her motives for going on the show? Same can be said about Ben, Emily M., Melissa R., Ali F., and the MAJORITY of bachelor leads and contestants who sign up for reasons other than finding a lasting relationship. Chasing career ambitions is not the end-all shame in all society. Not even close. But, lying about it? Now that is an embarassment and dent in integrity, and a completely different matter. We all know this isn't a secret; but it seems to me that criticism for doing it always comes up, year after year, to help justify why viewers don't like someone.

I do not agree that the franchise/network does not encourage, initiate, and promote post-show PR. They are not short staffed; so even though they are moving forward storyboarding their next season, there is plenty of lingering control on PR to be sure the right messages are getting out, to promote their next scheme, to cover over the negative. Gee - look no farther than the past two months. We have a wedding being planned and announced at the same time that Molly's announcement of her pregnancy came out. Just in time to cover over Emily and Courtney's break ups! Concidental? Not possible.

As for Courtney, I happen to like her. And I will tell you why I like her. 1st: nothing about her ITMs have proven to be true since the show aired. 2nd: other girls on the show really liked her and defended her to a great degree in saying that there were plenty of girls in the house who did and said much worse things, including them. So they all but admitted that Courtney was manipulated and edited more unfairly than the rest of them. 3rd: I understand what it is to put up with a guy for much longer than you should. I was the same way; working on a relationship that wasn't mutually reciprocated and living off of scraps of attention and affection like a dog waits for a bite of food to be thrown from the table - AND - convincing myself that I can make a meal off of it! Courtney is just like that. And her personal friends have been helping her see this about herself for a long time. For her to ditch the relationship with Ben as soon as she did, says alot about her finding self-confidence that she needs. 4th: models may have beauty on the outside, but those I know all have inner weaknesses and struggles that would surprise you. Many are pursued by men because of what they look like and NOT because of who they are on the inside.

For her to make these comments, IMO, is merely a woman who is finding her voice. The relationship for her and Ben was over a long time ago. She stood by her man when he was canoodling - and got caught. The glue to that relationship was in Courtney's and Ben's sisters closeness and not because Ben was ever fully committed. He has indicated a number of times that he isn't ready for a relationship. Ben was on a bungey cord with this relationship; he'd pull away and Courtney would wait (with his sister) for him to come back; he'd come back and pull away again; he'd follow through and then he wouldn't. Like a light switch: off. on. off. on. And finally, Courtney had enough. In the past she'd wait and continue to invest and this time she drew the line in the sand and it pissed Ben off when he saw that Courtney wasn't going to wait any longer. For her to move on into any relationship - Arie or otherwise, is perfectly logical. We all do (or did). This isn't a situation where love was there and suddenly gone. Whatever she felt or thought she felt for the guy was choked out with this on again/off again situation. She's dating. Dating. That's what single people do.

And before I get razzed for blaming Ben, I'm not. I am stating a facts. Ben had an explosive reaction to the FRC with Ashley. EXPLOSIVE! He was the product of handlers manipulation/brain washing to make him believe that Ashley thought more of him than she did and propell him to propose to her, which was humiliating to him and logically angered him. He went on to lead his season because he wanted to promote his name and business. He said so. And even as much as the moment he was announced as the lead on Bachelor Pad, there are clips of him telling the fans who approached him during post-show credits that proposing was what the producers wanted (NOT HIM). Unfortunate to Ben is that production didn't give his business nearly the plugs as what PeopleWater had. And, they didn't edit the man to make him respectable, endearing, appear to be interesting, etc. And, to finish his come-up-kins, they were sure to edit his F1 with the worst edit I believe we ever saw a F1 get in all the bachelor kingdom, which made him look all the more foolish. Let's say, respect due him as a lead, never happened.

I will exit the soap box and extend my apologies for 'venting'. I get frustrated by finger pointing - and not just with this couple - but with every single person and couple who has ever come on the show that happens to polarize fans. Picking the negative to justify why a person is not their favorites polarizes boards faster than fire spreads in dry forests! I've seen this board and many others lock down threads because people are willing to draw blood out of each other in an effort to defend are attack the people who go on these shows. While I rarely agree with Reality Steve's comments, the man was correct this season when citing the Jef/Emily/Arie fans as lunatics. I still can't believe the boards imploded so badly as they did, and still would if any unsettling comment is made about them.

I'm all about free speech. I'm also okay with picking a favorite. I can even understand how you can like someone more than another. But I don't get it and I never will get it, how fiercely people embrace their conclusions about people that they know ONLY THROUGH AN EDIT! A CONTRIVED, MANIPULATED, HIGHLY ORCHESTRATED and OFTEN DEVIOUS EDIT that is ESSENTIAL to generate DRAMA!

Case in point: Molly Malaney. Perhaps one of the most generous, kind, fun-loving, loyal person I have ever known in my entire life! You don't have to turn the pages of time back all that far to re-read all the terrible comments made about her. The real truth - how Jason's weaknesses were manipulated to the point of being deceived and Melissa's involvement in being sure she had a contract and a victim image in tact before the ATFR - was carefully hidden by the "shock" of an on-stage break up (which she later denied as being real) and the crucifying reaction toward Molly and Jason. Boards like this went ballistic in spewing blame and hatred to the point that two otherwise good people in our society almost lost a love they found and the ability to have careers and live any kind of normal life. It shows that the franchise has no boundaries to what they will do to a person's life and reputation for the sake of DRAMA. So to believe that what the edit says about a person is a true and accurate reflection of who they are is mind-boggling!

Yes, I hear the argument, "if they don't say it they can't air it". I get it. But in the course of months of being taped 24/7, you can be sure that a VO can be and is generated by splicing together any number of comments you made toward your hair, some food, a color, even talking about your pet! ITMs are NO DIFFERENT.

I can go on and on and on. But, here's the thing - NOTHING that I am writing here this morning is NEW to anyone. We all know the truth! There's enough information out there about the falacy behind "reality tv" in general. There's nothing real about it. And when you see shows starting up about "Honey Boo Boo" and "Whiskar wars" - you can see how media as a whole is believing that viewers are so ignorant and shallow that they can be entertained by anything!!! I encourage everyone to stop buying into it. Watch the show for what it is but don't let your minds be BRAINWASHED in thinking that you are watching REALITY. Because it isn't. We are watching a show that might yield a dating relationship or a marriage that is no different than walking into a bar on a Saturday night. It just happens to throw in expensive dates, and exotic locations, and adventures. But expect an outcome to be no different than REALITY. Two people might find each other for a long term reationship, or not. Nothing more and nothing less.

I've known only two people on this show, Molly and Courtney. And I can tell you without reservation, there are no two finer people who I would want to have my back in my reality than them. And I would hope you all would find people like that in their lives! But learning what I have about what goes on behind that camera and knowing these people as I do, I can say it is an absolute tragedy to see boards fill up with disagreements over stuff that just isn't even remotely true. Not even remotely true!

Fruit Loops wrote:

chasingpavements wrote:

IrishGal wrote:

Love_Me wrote:Exclusive: Courtney Robertson: "I Felt Brainwashed" on The Bachelor

Celebrity News November 9, 2012 AT 8:00AM By UsWeekly Staff





Courtney Robertson on June 1, 2012 in West Hollywood, CA. Courtney Robertson on June 1, 2012 in West Hollywood, CA. Credit: Todd Oren/WireImage

Champagne picnics. Moonlit strolls. Stunning vistas. And total isolation.

Courtney Robertson says she couldn't resist falling for now-ex Ben Flajnik on The Bachelor in 2011. "In many ways, I felt brainwashed," the model, who filmed for two-plus months without access to TV or social media, tells Us Weekly. "You're so closed off!"

PHOTOS: Reality love gone bad

Now that the engagement is over, the L.A.-based Robertson, 29, regrets being duped by the show's over-the-top romance tactics.

She recalls one date in Switzerland when the San Francisco winemaker, 30, thoughtfully brought popcorn, her favorite snack. "But I realize it wasn't him. It was the producer," she says.

PHOTOS: Biggest Bachelor breakups

After the show wrapped, the long-distance duo rarely saw each other and, left to his own devices, Flajnik was no Prince Charming. "Ben said he was 'all picnicked out,'" she explains to Us.

Robertson was "shocked and hurt" when her fiance was caught kissing other women in February. By October, she knew it was over. "I've never experienced heartache like this," Robertson tells Us. "We had baby names picked out!"

"I put up with more than I should," she says.

PHOTOS: Ben's most romantic Bachelor dates

But the model is now bouncing back -- with Bachelorette alum Arie Luyendyk Jr., 31. "He's a cool guy," she says. "I'm just trying to figure out the next step."

Link

I call foul on this. She got a 1-1 date on the 2nd episode. A hiking picnic with his dog....not exactly Shangrila. Next time she saw him she gave him a note saying she was madly in love with him! There was no time to be brain-washed at that point. She was the one trying to manipulate him and it worked. It was obvious from the M & G that she had one goal which was to win no matter who she stepped on in the process. She's a lying, conniving, attention seeker. It was clear on the show and it certainly is clear now with all her bogus photo ops with Arie. I so wish she'd just go away. :vomit:

I definitely do think that she is trying to portray herself as the victim, and she wasn't AT ALL, but I know that what she is saying IS true. Jillian even said in a recent interview that that's exactly what the producers do - you are completely closed off from the real world and have no access to magazines, tv, internet, music, friends, family, etc. and you have producers telling you that you are perfect for this guy, and how he has been telling them that he's falling in love with you, etc. I wouldn't call it "brain-washing", and I definitely doubt that Ben has been "put her through a lot", but I do think that most people on the show think that they are madly in love...only to realize once they are off the show that they weren't. At all.

You have gotta all remember the high degree of manipulation that goes on behind the scenes. With as much as handlers work with the lead to 'encourage' reactions both suggesting a relationship is brewing and in setting up awkward situations, so they work with the participants - making them think the guy is hotter, or greater, or brighter, or whatever than he really is. They spend as much time painting their lead in "rosey light" to make the girls think he is something more than he really is, as they spend manipulating their leads. Is it brainwashing? In some sense it is: at least as it relates to sensory isolation that they are subjected to. They isolate these people, booze them up, and "work with their minds" by setting the stage for romance to brew where there otherwise wouldn't be and for reactions to be sharper than would be in a normal situation. They subject everyone to hours of psychological scrutiny to specificallly locate their vulnerabilities and they the play upon them. It is a form a brainwashing, even though it is not to the degree of POWs. Even Melissa R. (who went on the show with very distinct motives that was not related to finding love) admitted that there comes a point where there is a 'blur' between what is real and fabricated. Ryan B. said the same thing recently on twitter. And many other alums who are otherwise bright individuals have all said as much in comments and interviews through the years. Even Queen B Trista said in a television interview that the concept/approach of the show changed drastically since she and Ryan met: changing it in a way that forces drama to hype the entertainment factor. Consider all her dates and compare them to what they do now... it isn't the same show.

As for Courtney what validates comment toward her motives for going on the show? Same can be said about Ben, Emily M., Melissa R., Ali F., and the MAJORITY of bachelor leads and contestants who sign up for reasons other than finding a lasting relationship. Chasing career ambitions is not the end-all shame in all society. Not even close. But, lying about it? Now that is an embarassment and dent in integrity, and a completely different matter. We all know this isn't a secret; but it seems to me that criticism for doing it always comes up, year after year, to help justify why viewers don't like someone.

I do not agree that the franchise/network does not encourage, initiate, and promote post-show PR. They are not short staffed; so even though they are moving forward storyboarding their next season, there is plenty of lingering control on PR to be sure the right messages are getting out, to promote their next scheme, to cover over the negative. Gee - look no farther than the past two months. We have a wedding being planned and announced at the same time that Molly's announcement of her pregnancy came out. Just in time to cover over Emily and Courtney's break ups! Concidental? Not possible.

As for Courtney, I happen to like her. And I will tell you why I like her. 1st: nothing about her ITMs have proven to be true since the show aired. 2nd: other girls on the show really liked her and defended her to a great degree in saying that there were plenty of girls in the house who did and said much worse things, including them. So they all but admitted that Courtney was manipulated and edited more unfairly than the rest of them. 3rd: I understand what it is to put up with a guy for much longer than you should. I was the same way; working on a relationship that wasn't mutually reciprocated and living off of scraps of attention and affection like a dog waits for a bite of food to be thrown from the table - AND - convincing myself that I can make a meal off of it! Courtney is just like that. And her personal friends have been helping her see this about herself for a long time. For her to ditch the relationship with Ben as soon as she did, says alot about her finding self-confidence that she needs. 4th: models may have beauty on the outside, but those I know all have inner weaknesses and struggles that would surprise you. Many are pursued by men because of what they look like and NOT because of who they are on the inside.

For her to make these comments, IMO, is merely a woman who is finding her voice. The relationship for her and Ben was over a long time ago. She stood by her man when he was canoodling - and got caught. The glue to that relationship was in Courtney's and Ben's sisters closeness and not because Ben was ever fully committed. He has indicated a number of times that he isn't ready for a relationship. Ben was on a bungey cord with this relationship; he'd pull away and Courtney would wait (with his sister) for him to come back; he'd come back and pull away again; he'd follow through and then he wouldn't. Like a light switch: off. on. off. on. And finally, Courtney had enough. In the past she'd wait and continue to invest and this time she drew the line in the sand and it pissed Ben off when he saw that Courtney wasn't going to wait any longer. For her to move on into any relationship - Arie or otherwise, is perfectly logical. We all do (or did). This isn't a situation where love was there and suddenly gone. Whatever she felt or thought she felt for the guy was choked out with this on again/off again situation. She's dating. Dating. That's what single people do.

And before I get razzed for blaming Ben, I'm not. I am stating a facts. Ben had an explosive reaction to the FRC with Ashley. EXPLOSIVE! He was the product of handlers manipulation/brain washing to make him believe that Ashley thought more of him than she did and propell him to propose to her, which was humiliating to him and logically angered him. He went on to lead his season because he wanted to promote his name and business. He said so. And even as much as the moment he was announced as the lead on Bachelor Pad, there are clips of him telling the fans who approached him during post-show credits that proposing was what the producers wanted (NOT HIM). Unfortunate to Ben is that production didn't give his business nearly the plugs as what PeopleWater had. And, they didn't edit the man to make him respectable, endearing, appear to be interesting, etc. And, to finish his come-up-kins, they were sure to edit his F1 with the worst edit I believe we ever saw a F1 get in all the bachelor kingdom, which made him look all the more foolish. Let's say, respect due him as a lead, never happened.

I will exit the soap box and extend my apologies for 'venting'. I get frustrated by finger pointing - and not just with this couple - but with every single person and couple who has ever come on the show that happens to polarize fans. Picking the negative to justify why a person is not their favorites polarizes boards faster than fire spreads in dry forests! I've seen this board and many others lock down threads because people are willing to draw blood out of each other in an effort to defend are attack the people who go on these shows. While I rarely agree with Reality Steve's comments, the man was correct this season when citing the Jef/Emily/Arie fans as lunatics. I still can't believe the boards imploded so badly as they did, and still would if any unsettling comment is made about them.

I'm all about free speech. I'm also okay with picking a favorite. I can even understand how you can like someone more than another. But I don't get it and I never will get it, how fiercely people embrace their conclusions about people that they know ONLY THROUGH AN EDIT! A CONTRIVED, MANIPULATED, HIGHLY ORCHESTRATED and OFTEN DEVIOUS EDIT that is ESSENTIAL to generate DRAMA!

Case in point: Molly Malaney. Perhaps one of the most generous, kind, fun-loving, loyal person I have ever known in my entire life! You don't have to turn the pages of time back all that far to re-read all the terrible comments made about her. The real truth - how Jason's weaknesses were manipulated to the point of being deceived and Melissa's involvement in being sure she had a contract and a victim image in tact before the ATFR - was carefully hidden by the "shock" of an on-stage break up (which she later denied as being real) and the crucifying reaction toward Molly and Jason. Boards like this went ballistic in spewing blame and hatred to the point that two otherwise good people in our society almost lost a love they found and the ability to have careers and live any kind of normal life. It shows that the franchise has no boundaries to what they will do to a person's life and reputation for the sake of DRAMA. So to believe that what the edit says about a person is a true and accurate reflection of who they are is mind-boggling!

Yes, I hear the argument, "if they don't say it they can't air it". I get it. But in the course of months of being taped 24/7, you can be sure that a VO can be and is generated by splicing together any number of comments you made toward your hair, some food, a color, even talking about your pet! ITMs are NO DIFFERENT.

I can go on and on and on. But, here's the thing - NOTHING that I am writing here this morning is NEW to anyone. We all know the truth! There's enough information out there about the falacy behind "reality tv" in general. There's nothing real about it. And when you see shows starting up about "Honey Boo Boo" and "Whiskar wars" - you can see how media as a whole is believing that viewers are so ignorant and shallow that they can be entertained by anything!!! I encourage everyone to stop buying into it. Watch the show for what it is but don't let your minds be BRAINWASHED in thinking that you are watching REALITY. Because it isn't. We are watching a show that might yield a dating relationship or a marriage that is no different than walking into a bar on a Saturday night. It just happens to throw in expensive dates, and exotic locations, and adventures. But expect an outcome to be no different than REALITY. Two people might find each other for a long term reationship, or not. Nothing more and nothing less.

I've known only two people on this show, Molly and Courtney. And I can tell you without reservation, there are no two finer people who I would want to have my back in my reality than them. And I would hope you all would find people like that in their lives! But learning what I have about what goes on behind that camera and knowing these people as I do, I can say it is an absolute tragedy to see boards fill up with disagreements over stuff that just isn't even remotely true. Not even remotely true!

Thanks for your post.
So many come out season after season on message boards to emphatically remind viewers many of your points. Hopefully it will be remembered as the season unfolds... doubt it. And I don't mean this sarcastically. People still think this show is about a love story.
So few realize how evil the machine is and can be.

Not convinced. I'm sure Courtney can be nice if she chooses. I can ignore much of what she said to the camera but we also saw things she said to the women and not all of them have defended her since the show. In any case it wouldn't be an issue if she weren't continually wanting attention and throwing Ben under the bus. Hard to make a case for being nicer than portrayed.

Thank you Fruit Loops, wonderfully written and I agree 100%....

luvlady345 wrote:Thank you Fruit Loops, wonderfully written and I agree 100%....

Me too. 100% convinced. Thanks for the reminder.

Courtney's actions post show, non-manipulated and non-edited, are proving what a fameho witch she was, is and always will be.

She talked to every gossip mag that would listen to her last week and obviously People wouldn't because that's the one that published Ben's PR spiel.

Isn't Courntey writing a book?

Fruit Loops wrote:I'm all about free speech. I'm also okay with picking a favorite. I can even understand how you can like someone more than another. But I don't get it and I never will get it, how fiercely people embrace their conclusions about people that they know ONLY THROUGH AN EDIT! A CONTRIVED, MANIPULATED, HIGHLY ORCHESTRATED and OFTEN DEVIOUS EDIT that is ESSENTIAL to generate DRAMA!

I certainly agree with this, and would just like to note that it goes both ways regarding those conclusions. The over the top vindictive ridicule and character assassination of people we only know through a contrived edit is no more understandable to me than is the over the top worship/defense of them. And in accordance with the laws of cause and effect, you can bet that every season, too much of one will invariably prompt too much of the other. And so it goes.

ironcat wrote:

Fruit Loops wrote:I'm all about free speech. I'm also okay with picking a favorite. I can even understand how you can like someone more than another. But I don't get it and I never will get it, how fiercely people embrace their conclusions about people that they know ONLY THROUGH AN EDIT! A CONTRIVED, MANIPULATED, HIGHLY ORCHESTRATED and OFTEN DEVIOUS EDIT that is ESSENTIAL to generate DRAMA!

I certainly agree with this, and would just like to note that it goes both ways regarding those conclusions. The over the top vindictive ridicule and character assassination of people we only know through a contrived edit is no more understandable to me than is the over the top worship/defense of them. And in accordance with the laws of cause and effect, you can bet that every season, too much of one will invariably prompt too much of the other. And so it goes.

I agree too. I can never understand either OTT reaction.

ETA: I loved your post Fruit Loops.

lavenderred wrote:Courtney's actions post show, non-manipulated and non-edited, are proving what a fameho witch she was, is and always will be.

She talked to every gossip mag that would listen to her last week and obviously People wouldn't because that's the one that published Ben's PR spiel.

It is unfortunate that you feel this way. I'm sorry. I happen to know the truth. And it is in direct opposition to this observation.