Re: Episode 5 - 6/20 - Discussion - Thread #1

[pbmax]

Wow, I see the camps are starting already.

I am going to attempt to keep open minded this season, and not try to make the editing pattern fit the conclusion I have already reached. Wonder how long I'll be able to keep this up!

Can we start a camp for those who remain camp-less? Camp Outside-Looking-In? I'm not attached to any of these people. I guess that makes me objective, but it's also bringing everybody's negatives to the surface for me. Bummer.

I'm campless - always am - it's counterproductive to have a favourite and attempt look at the edits objectively.

Count me into this camp. I've actually reached the stage of belonging to the Camp 'I'm-not-really-interested'. I normally re-watch episodes and youtube fanvids over and over but this time I can barely even watch on mondays. I'm cringing right along with Ashley - all of it is just so hard to watch. Not sure if that makes me objective but with the wonky edit I'm honestly .

I'm in that camp too. I like Ashley, but there's no love story here and for that I feel bad for her. She didn't get her 50-50 love. The way I see it, if she chose someone it will be because of just choosing someone or rebounding. I'm leaning toward no one. That's certainly what she should do, since she's not into any of them.

[Reality Mary]

Wow, I see the camps are starting already.

I am going to attempt to keep open minded this season, and not try to make the editing pattern fit the conclusion I have already reached. Wonder how long I'll be able to keep this up!

Can we start a camp for those who remain camp-less? Camp Outside-Looking-In? I'm not attached to any of these people. I guess that makes me objective, but it's also bringing everybody's negatives to the surface for me. Bummer.

I'm campless - always am - it's counterproductive to have a favourite and attempt look at the edits objectively.

Count me into this camp. I've actually reached the stage of belonging to the Camp 'I'm-not-really-interested'. I normally re-watch episodes and youtube fanvids over and over but this time I can barely even watch on mondays. I'm cringing right along with Ashley - all of it is just so hard to watch. Not sure if that makes me objective but with the wonky edit I'm honestly .

I'm in that camp too. I like Ashley, but there's no love story here and for that I feel bad for her. She didn't get her 50-50 love. The way I see it, if she chose someone it will be because of just choosing someone or rebounding. I'm leaning toward no one. That's certainly what she should do, since she's not into any of them.

Totally agree with all of you. Even if she does pick someone, my opinion is it is just to get through the show. She is not ready.

[pbmax]

I am actually just in the Ashley camp. I did not care for Ashley during Brad's season but have come to enjoy and respect her this time around. A lot of people are down on her because of her constant Bentley obsession but they forget that at this point Ashley knows nothing about the bad part of Bentley. She is insecure and sensitive and Bentley played her big time. He was a master of manipulation. He said all the right things and made all the right moves at exactly her most vulnerable moments. Of course the girl is gaga over him! Looking back I am sure she is mortified and madder than a wet hen.

If I had to pick one guy in the lead for her heart at this time I would pick JP. I have looked at all the editing but the single most telling thing that stands out for me is the way she says "JP will you accept this rose?" She baby talk/sings it. Reminds me of how Allie spoke to Roberto and Trista spoke to Ryan.

My beef with Ashley is that she was warned by Michelle and if you believe CH she was also warned by him – I do wonder if all the Bentley stuff on Ashley’s part is completely fake – how do you fall for one person inside of 8 days and not question everything that you’ve already been warned about?? That makes zero sense to me – any intelligent person would’ve had some kind of guard up = it’s great to know who you think your F1 is going to be – it’s a complete other to zero in on that person to the exclusion of all other in an environment that she fully knows is fake and manipulated to the nth degree. So, in my mind, Ashley is a far better actress than Ali ever was.

To a certain extent, I think TPTB have blindsided Ashley. I think she truly fell for Bentley from day one, but she is being editted to be way over the top. Granted, some of what we see may be genuine and some acting, but the editors are piecing her reactions together to exaggerate the situation. I am still of the opinion that she's feeling humiliated, not just by Bentley, but by the show.Ashley needs epi 6 to come and go more than anything. Until then, she's being dragged thru the mud over and over. How many times do you think the general viewer has said "OMG you're kidding me" as she whines about missing Bentley? IMO the show hasn't done itself nor Ashley any favors this season.

I so agree with the bolded. I have to wonder if she pissed them off somehow. They are not treating her well at all.

I agree she is getting a horrible edit. As I said elsewhere, they could easily leave a lot on the cutting room floor and show just a little bit to justify bringing the DB back. But no, its like a broken record over and over again.
Sor sure - something is up.

I agree. But I don't think tptb are giving her a horrible edit, they are just showing what happen and like you said, something is up. Why are we getting so much of it. Overkill or not.

[moonchild]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a VO in the season previews that has JP saying something similar to "I no longer have any doubts".

Is it possible that JP gets cold feet at some point and starts to have doubts about seeing this through to the end. Could the Finale not be so much about who is F1 but will JP be there in the end and not leave as others have done.

I thought that I would see some chemistry with Ben this episode, but I didn't. Wouldn't the viewing audience (spoiled and unspoiled) be enraged that they had to endure all of this Bentley fiasco and there was indeed a love story, but they didn't show it? Just trying to make some sense out of non-sense

[Molly]

There is a love story being shown in bits and pieces with JP. He had a PI episode 4 stating that he was nervous to "go for it" to become emotionally involved, so that could be his obstacle. Somehow I don't think his self-doubt will play as big a role as Ashley's self-doubt.

Question: In the preview she is shown being poled down the river on a raft by Ben C., yet during the elephant portion of the date they show only two elephants - one for Ashley and one for William. They also show only William sitting on the blanket for the picnic. My question goes to the episode description where they say that one from the 2 on 1 date will be sent home; yet I thought William would go. Does she let Ben C go really early in the date, and William during the evening portion of the date?

[agentcurls]

There is a love story being shown in bits and pieces with JP. He had a PI episode 4 stating that he was nervous to "go for it" to become emotionally involved, so that could be his obstacle. Somehow I don't think his self-doubt will play as big a role as Ashley's self-doubt.

Question: In the preview she is shown being poled down the river on a raft by Ben C., yet during the elephant portion of the date they show only two elephants - one for Ashley and one for William. They also show only William sitting on the blanket for the picnic. My question goes to the episode description where they say that one from the 2 on 1 date will be sent home; yet I thought William would go. Does she let Ben C go really early in the date, and William during the evening portion of the date?

Hi Molly!

Yes, we think that's what happens.

[Guest]

I am actually just in the Ashley camp. I did not care for Ashley during Brad's season but have come to enjoy and respect her this time around. A lot of people are down on her because of her constant Bentley obsession but they forget that at this point Ashley knows nothing about the bad part of Bentley. She is insecure and sensitive and Bentley played her big time. He was a master of manipulation. He said all the right things and made all the right moves at exactly her most vulnerable moments. Of course the girl is gaga over him! Looking back I am sure she is mortified and madder than a wet hen.

If I had to pick one guy in the lead for her heart at this time I would pick JP. I have looked at all the editing but the single most telling thing that stands out for me is the way she says "JP will you accept this rose?" She baby talk/sings it. Reminds me of how Allie spoke to Roberto and Trista spoke to Ryan.

Re - the bolded. May I join forces with you dee? I'm just in the Ashley camp too! I want her to end up with whichever guy wants to give it a try as much as she does and I hope that is the way it ends up, whichever F1 she chooses

[Starshine_16]

I am actually just in the Ashley camp. I did not care for Ashley during Brad's season but have come to enjoy and respect her this time around. A lot of people are down on her because of her constant Bentley obsession but they forget that at this point Ashley knows nothing about the bad part of Bentley. She is insecure and sensitive and Bentley played her big time. He was a master of manipulation. He said all the right things and made all the right moves at exactly her most vulnerable moments. Of course the girl is gaga over him! Looking back I am sure she is mortified and madder than a wet hen.

If I had to pick one guy in the lead for her heart at this time I would pick JP. I have looked at all the editing but the single most telling thing that stands out for me is the way she says "JP will you accept this rose?" She baby talk/sings it. Reminds me of how Allie spoke to Roberto and Trista spoke to Ryan.

Re - the bolded. May I join forces with you dee? I'm just in the Ashley camp too! I want her to end up with whichever guy wants to give it a try as much as she does and I hope that is the way it ends up, whichever F1 she chooses

Can I join you guys in the Ashley camp? I really like her and I just want her to be happy with whoever she chooses. I know she is not the only woman to be played by a dbag.

[Guest]

I am actually just in the Ashley camp. I did not care for Ashley during Brad's season but have come to enjoy and respect her this time around. A lot of people are down on her because of her constant Bentley obsession but they forget that at this point Ashley knows nothing about the bad part of Bentley. She is insecure and sensitive and Bentley played her big time. He was a master of manipulation. He said all the right things and made all the right moves at exactly her most vulnerable moments. Of course the girl is gaga over him! Looking back I am sure she is mortified and madder than a wet hen.

If I had to pick one guy in the lead for her heart at this time I would pick JP. I have looked at all the editing but the single most telling thing that stands out for me is the way she says "JP will you accept this rose?" She baby talk/sings it. Reminds me of how Allie spoke to Roberto and Trista spoke to Ryan.

Re - the bolded. May I join forces with you dee? I'm just in the Ashley camp too! I want her to end up with whichever guy wants to give it a try as much as she does and I hope that is the way it ends up, whichever F1 she chooses

Can I join you guys in the Ashley camp? I really like her and I just want her to be happy with whoever she chooses. I know she is not the only woman to be played by a dbag.

Absolutely - and I agree with you 1000% As for TPTB throwing Ashley under the bus because they are not happy with her about something, I really hope that is not the case this time. I'm hoping they just overplayed their hand early with all the drama to distract from an obvious F1 and/or a lack of drama coming from the all too ordinary and generally nice but maybe not so riveting remaining guys. Maybe they feared (correctly? - maybe, short term) that most people would be bored without the insertion of TPTB's increasingly over-the-top shenanigans, since they keep upping the ante with every season. Unfortunately, the over-the-top drama is every bit as boring and off-putting to many of us, so I'm not so sure their trite - - and true formula is going to be such a winner for them this time :greenman:

[agentcurls]

She really can't go wrong with any these guys, especially the F2!

[Starshine_16]

She really can't go wrong with any these guys, especially the F2!

Agreed. Usually in the F4 there's at least one person I can't stand but not this time.

[Bloomers]

I was talking with BlondieGal several seasons back about Brad's first season. Of course, he selected no one even though technically DeAnna was F1 and Jenni was F2. I remarked how puzzled I was that season that DeAnna had clearly gotten both an F1 and an F2 edit which I had never seen before.
Blondie remarked that "the edit reflected there was no love story."

It was like a puzzle piece fell into place for me. I could look back retrospectively at seasons and see what the edit was trying to tell me about the couple's real life relationship. It was a bit startling!

The conclusion that I have found - and it works - is that when the edit is botched up, extremely, and/or wonky - any of these 3 - there is something wrong with the relationship in the real world.

The producers watched this relationship supposedly developing - in all seasons. They get a pretty decent feel for what is going on, and plus they have a psychological handle on these folks. ( It is what it is regardless of how I feel about all of it....)

There may be something to JesseC's panel of past contenders. All of them - with the exception of AshleyS - harped on the contestants being "produced". That is something that may be difficult for us to completely understand since we have never experienced anything remotely like it?

[Sponsored content]