Re: Episode 4 - 6/13 - Discussion - Spoilers

by Samiesmom2 Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:18 pm

nutty1 wrote:Yes, Samie, good post! I do wonder if TPTB are hoping for Ryan as next Bach? (I'd like that).

Thanks Nutty1. It is just something for us all to remember about the next primary. We get so caught up in sleuthing discussions about finding clues leading to the F1 that we tend to forget since DeAnna's season Mike Fleiss is devoting a good portion of the edit to building up the popularity of his next primary and has said as much in interviews. Obviously because of RS we have focused on JP's screen time over the past 3 weeks while the general viewing public has been watching Ryan P. Remember he did get Ashley's FIR and last year that rose went to Roberto.

by Guest Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:24 pm

Samiesmom2 wrote:
nutty1 wrote:Yes, Samie, good post! I do wonder if TPTB are hoping for Ryan as next Bach? (I'd like that).

Thanks Nutty1. It is just something for us all to remember about the next primary. We get so caught up in sleuthing discussions about finding clues leading to the F1 that we tend to forget since DeAnna's season Mike Fleiss is devoting a good portion of the edit to building up the popularity of his next primary and has said as much in interviews. Obviously because of RS we have focused on JP's screen time over the past 3 weeks while the general viewing public has been watching Ryan P. Remember he did get Ali's FIR and last year that rose went to Roberto.

I think the general viewing public is split into 2 camps because I see a lot of people say Ryan is leading the polls, but whenever I go to different spoiler free message boards and ask friends who are spoiler free who they think will win they all say JP. So JP is not that hidden to the general viewing public also.

by ironcat Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:28 pm

Good posts, everyone. I think there might be 2 reasons for what seems to be the "wonky" edit this year.

One is that Ashley apparently changed her top favorites from the first night more dramatically than any previous lead ever has, with some dropping out, some shooting themselves in the foot, and some just not living up to her expectations. And sorry Ryan fans, I suspect that he was always more of a producer pick (or "suggestion", if you will) for her, who she never really felt was right for her, but he was kept around (and then brought back) because the producers suspected he'd be a fan favorite and his resume is PERFECT to be the next lead. I think only JP was a holdover from her original faves and the other 3 in F4 were guys she later realized were extremely sincere and really interested in her, so she opened her eyes to them after initially being wowed by the more flashy guys.

The second reason is Bentley. Whether he was "coached" to be the villain to end all villains or he came up with this stuff on his own, as somebody said, the producers recognized a virtual TV gold mine in his antics, and realized that the story no longer needed to be F1 vs F2, but F1 vs Bentley. Therefore, there was no great need to worry about hiding the F1, or faking the audience out with who it was, because by the end of the show, most of us wouldn't believe that Ashley had gotten over Bentley enough to pick anybody else anyway, and the fact that she did would be the fakeout instead.

by Samiesmom2 Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:40 pm

Bloomers wrote:
Samiesmom2 wrote:
nutty1 wrote:There are so many threads, I do not even know where to ask this!

I have read variations of this in several different online articles:
"Ashley wanted a second chance with Bentley, so she begged producers to get him on the phone and get him on a plane out to see her," a Bachelorette insider shares. "She couldn't stop thinking about him after he left her."
Upon Ashley's request, producers called Bentley every day for two weeks until he finally agreed to fly to Hong Kong."

How much do you think is truth & how much fabricated for drama?
There is going to have to be a lot of redemption for Ashley & her F1 choice, to make it believable. Hope that will be possible.

Just go to a store today or tomorrow and look at the newsracks and you will see that Bentley is a PR Goldmine for TPTB. Most magaines have Ashley on the cover with headlines about her heartbreak over Bentley. We know she will move on between last Monday and Episode 6 but the show will bring Bentley back during that Episode, if nothing else but to build the ratings with pre-show hype over his return. They will milk that return for all it is worth and no doubt wait until the 2nd hour for the dramatic reunion. After Bentley, JP will get his 2nd 1 on 1 date but average viewers will still be focused on the drama that went on between Bentley and Ashley. Board members will pay attention to the date, as they did the first 1 on 1 date Ashley had with JP but all we got to see was not even 5 minutes of time between Ashley and JP. Yes we saw and heard alot in that less than 5 minute period as we have seen on the grapevine video what will happen between them this coming Monday night, if indeed it is aired. We study screencaps and discuss all the tiny details but your average unspoiled viewers are not picking up on all of these tiny little clues.

Will it be at Ashley's request, regarding Bentley, or producers talking her into this setup so not only she but her choosen F1 will have closure over the entire Bentley situation is something only Ashley and TPTB know for sure. IMO I am opting for TPTB talking her into letting him return. Them bringing Bentley back and her rejecting him will send a very strong message to her F1 that he has taken the place of Bentley in her heart. If she was still fixated on the man she would have welcomed him back with open arms as did Jillian, with Ed, and we would have bascially had two Fantasy Date shows for Ashley so she would have more time with Bentley. Remember Ed did have a 1 on 1 date before he left and only missed the HTDs. On Jillian's show, after the HTD, they went first to Spain with Ed, Reid, Kiptyn and Wes and then to the original Fanstasy Date location of Hawaii. After Jillian's HTD Jesse K was cut and replaced by Ed and in Spain Wes was sent home.

TPTB also knew Ryan P. would be a fan favorite so they are returning him just before they hold the FRC to increase viewership. Always remember nothing happens on this show without a hidden adgenda by TPTB. They are not only taking us on a journey for Ashley to find love but a big portion of the show is also spent showcasing their next Bachelor and building his popularity with the viewers.

The difference is that either Ed was held by contract to come back and remain, or he decided he would play along with their idea and see how it worked out.
Bentley really sadly never wanted a part of Ashley from the start, and I don't think they could even hold him to the threat of his contract clause. It states that if he leaves early without going through their designated channels (paraphrased), he can be made to repay all expenses incurred. All Bentley would have to do in this situation is to prove that he was mislead as to the identity of the Bachelorette. We did hear him mention Emily in the intro clip before ever got out of the limo, so he did think Emily was the Bachelorette, and they let him believe that. They had an extremely slippery hold on Bentley, and I think they knew it. What they did was to make him pay for it with that edit. However, they couldn't make him even pretend to care.
Ed, on the other hand, however it happened got involved in the situation....

Bloomers I totally agree with you that Ed was held by contract to come back, we do not know what Bentley has in his contract and we also do not know what Frank had in his contract last year to stick around, let himself be filmed with his girlfriend in Chicago and fly to Tahiti to say goodbye to Ali telling her he had returned to his girlfriends back home. While we as board sleuthers take all the contract requirements into consideration the general, unspoiled viewers, that do not participate in message boards, are just going to remember what happened on Jillian's season when Ed returned and they do not even think about contracts.

All TPTB are interested in is ratings and they know that hyping Bentley's return over the coming weeks in TV ads and writeups in tabloid publications will increase viewership and that is all they are concerned about. They are also keeping Ryan P. around for the very last date before the HTDs and you can be sure once those dates are over they will be hyping Ryan's return to Figi. Will Bentley's return or Ryan's return play any significant role in the outcome of this show I highly doubt it but it will bring in the additional viewers and that is what the show is all about the ratings which grow the advertising dollars ABC charges for the commercials.

by Guest Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:40 pm

DMBFan wrote:I have a question... everyone is focusing on the grapevine 9 min extended preview for Monday & how it can't be JP now as its too front and centre...so has the same stuff shown with JP in that preview been also shown on previews made for TV that the general public sees? Frankly no one I know would even know that website existed. They only see the "made for TV" 30 sec previews that air between tv shows.

See I don't understand why people think JP is too much in the front. Comparing him to Roberto, he's had less face time.
Roberto had 1-1 time at the M&G and got the FIR, he had time her at RC2, and his date was Ep 3
JP had 1-1 time at M&G, but no FIR, had 1-1 time with her at RC2, and his date was Ep3, but it was only 5 minutes long.

As for the Grapevine preview, yes, JP gets 1-1 time with her, and they both do a PI, but I don't know how much general viewer see that, and i don't see it being any different that Ali talking about how hot Roberto was all the time. Episode 4 - 6/13 - Discussion - Spoilers - Page 30 1430875924

Episode 4 - 6/13 - Discussion - Spoilers - Page 30 1430875924

by jojo47 Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:15 pm

ironcat wrote:Good posts, everyone. I think there might be 2 reasons for what seems to be the "wonky" edit this year.

One is that Ashley apparently changed her top favorites from the first night more dramatically than any previous lead ever has, with some dropping out, some shooting themselves in the foot, and some just not living up to her expectations. And sorry Ryan fans, I suspect that he was always more of a producer pick (or "suggestion", if you will) for her, who she never really felt was right for her, but he was kept around (and then brought back) because the producers suspected he'd be a fan favorite and his resume is PERFECT to be the next lead. I think only JP was a holdover from her original faves and the other 3 in F4 were guys she later realized were extremely sincere and really interested in her, so she opened her eyes to them after initially being wowed by the more flashy guys.

The second reason is Bentley. Whether he was "coached" to be the villain to end all villains or he came up with this stuff on his own, as somebody said, the producers recognized a virtual TV gold mine in his antics, and realized that the story no longer needed to be F1 vs F2, but F1 vs Bentley. Therefore, there was no great need to worry about hiding the F1, or faking the audience out with who it was, because by the end of the show, most of us wouldn't believe that Ashley had gotten over Bentley enough to pick anybody else anyway, and the fact that she did would be the fakeout instead.

This is a really good post. Regarding Bentley, TPTB hit double paydirt when Ashley fell for him. They had their most villianous villian ever and the lead was crushing/loving him! They'd outdone themselves this season, even better than Ed & Frank!

What falls in line with this theory too is that all the media is quoting Ashley as saying she's humiliated and embarassed. It's causing readers/viewers to have empathy towards her, but fulfilling exactly what's stated above by Ironcat in the bolded.

The Gina Carbone blog posted here is revealing. She says that Ashley's PI stating that JP's kisses are winning over Bentley's is cut off. Ashley finishes this statement by saying that Bentley is winning in the heart department. Ashley was obviously asked a direct question of some sort about JP/Bentley, and her answer indicates that at that point in time Bentley was the frontrunner over JP.

If JP is in fact F1, this situation aligns itself with what Ironcat states above. TPTB don't need to have an F1/F2 race to the finish line, it's F1 vs. Bentley. However if JP isn't F1, we could see his storyline flatten and someone else's rising to fit F1 vs. Bentley's ghost.

by nutty1 Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:24 pm

jojo47 wrote:

This is a really good post. Regarding Bentley, TPTB hit double paydirt when Ashley fell for him. They had their most villianous villian ever and the lead was crushing/loving him! They'd outdone themselves this season, even better than Ed & Frank!

What falls in line with this theory too is that all the media is quoting Ashley as saying she's humiliated and embarassed. It's causing readers/viewers to have empathy towards her, but fulfilling exactly what's stated above by Ironcat in the bolded.

The Gina Carbone blog posted here is revealing. She says that Ashley's PI stating that JP's kisses are winning over Bentley's is cut off. Ashley finishes this statement by saying that Bentley is winning in the heart department. Ashley was obviously asked a direct question of some sort about JP/Bentley, and her answer indicates that at that point in time Bentley was the frontrunner over JP.

If JP is in fact F1, this situation aligns itself with what Ironcat states above. TPTB don't need to have an F1/F2 race to the finish line, it's F1 vs. Bentley. However if JP isn't F1, we could see his storyline flatten and someone else's rising to fit F1 vs. Bentley's ghost.

When was the interview done?? And how does that speak for anyone who is F1, if it was more a present day statement?

by jojo47 Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:33 pm

nutty1 wrote:
jojo47 wrote:

This is a really good post. Regarding Bentley, TPTB hit double paydirt when Ashley fell for him. They had their most villianous villian ever and the lead was crushing/loving him! They'd outdone themselves this season, even better than Ed & Frank!

What falls in line with this theory too is that all the media is quoting Ashley as saying she's humiliated and embarassed. It's causing readers/viewers to have empathy towards her, but fulfilling exactly what's stated above by Ironcat in the bolded.

The Gina Carbone blog posted here is revealing. She says that Ashley's PI stating that JP's kisses are winning over Bentley's is cut off. Ashley finishes this statement by saying that Bentley is winning in the heart department. Ashley was obviously asked a direct question of some sort about JP/Bentley, and her answer indicates that at that point in time Bentley was the frontrunner over JP.

If JP is in fact F1, this situation aligns itself with what Ironcat states above. TPTB don't need to have an F1/F2 race to the finish line, it's F1 vs. Bentley. However if JP isn't F1, we could see his storyline flatten and someone else's rising to fit F1 vs. Bentley's ghost.

When was the interview done?? And how does that speak for anyone who is F1, if it was more a present day statement?

I hope I'm answering your intended question. To clarify, TPTB were likely asking Ashley a direct question about Bentley/JP while filming a PI. However, her answer was editted, with the last part of her statement cut off. So the interview was done during filming. It was Gina Carbone's blog, though, that brought the editting of the statement to light. She had seen the footage with the entire response left in.

by Love_Me Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:41 pm

If Gina Carbone saw an advanced copy with that extended quote about Bentley that they edited out of the actual show.... do you think that former contestants also writing blogs for this season heard it too?

by jojo47 Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:43 pm

Love_Me wrote:If Gina Carbone saw an advanced copy with that extended quote about Bentley that they edited out of the actual show.... do you think that former contestants also writing blogs for this season heard it too?

I don't know the answer to that, but it does leave a different impression when the whole comment is left in don't you think?

by jurystillout Sun Jun 12, 2011 5:33 pm

I think many of the guys will be noticed this week. Since we don't have all the mask guy and the "jerk" to deal with in this episode. I hope to learn more about Blake, Nick, Ben F, Constantine and Ames.

by dee Sun Jun 12, 2011 5:36 pm

Fascinator11 wrote:
Samiesmom2 wrote:
nutty1 wrote:Yes, Samie, good post! I do wonder if TPTB are hoping for Ryan as next Bach? (I'd like that).

Thanks Nutty1. It is just something for us all to remember about the next primary. We get so caught up in sleuthing discussions about finding clues leading to the F1 that we tend to forget since DeAnna's season Mike Fleiss is devoting a good portion of the edit to building up the popularity of his next primary and has said as much in interviews. Obviously because of RS we have focused on JP's screen time over the past 3 weeks while the general viewing public has been watching Ryan P. Remember he did get Ali's FIR and last year that rose went to Roberto.

I think the general viewing public is split into 2 camps because i see a lot of people say Ryan is leading the polls, but whenever I go to different spoiler free message boards and ask friends who are spoiler free who they think will win they all say JP. So JP is not that hidden to the general viewing public also.

I don't think JP is "hidden" at all. maybe it's just the people I watch it with, but my friends are all unspoiled for the show, and they definitely notice JP. Majority of the people I've talk to thinks that she ends up with JP even though Ryan's their favourite. I don't think fan favourite equates to who the front runner is. For most of those polls, they are mainly asking who the viewer likes the most, which is the fan favourite, not necessarily who they think will be f1. For me, I feel that Ryan is more of an underdog even though people "notice" him on the show. And generally the audience would "root" for someone that is more of a long shot. As the weeks go on, and the guys are shown hating on Ryan, allegedly, he'll probably be even more of an underdog and get a lot of sympathy from the audience (if that's the direction the producers are going).

by Sponsored content