Tweet/Facebook Updates - Bachelorette 8 - Discussion

Bloven wrote:

Jeepers wrote:Well .. Race car driver could be considered to be a hobby and not a real job

But he is paid to do it and coomendate which makes it a job.

My response has nothing to do with this PW nonsense ( posts are too long so I on know what the fuss is about)?... Just saying

jlccaz wrote:

Kels0012 wrote: [SNIPPED]
For those of us less informed, can you provide the evidence/links to the evidence that make you have these opinions? Thanks!

News flash from People Water FB Page:

Who wants to ask Jef Holm questions before the big finale? We're going to sponsor a Q&A with him starting tomorrow on crowdhall.com Watch for the invite!I've posted them it seems like a dozen times.

(How is this okay, such a weird season, such blatant use of ABC's platform to promote his product, whatever).

1. It is against the law in California, and highly questionable anywhere, to market with the word "biodegradable" as to plastic water container. ENSO, People Water's supplier is being sued by the California attorney general. The word "biodegradable" was stamped in huge promotional lettering on every box Jef was wheeling around in that sweepstakes/contest video he posted. http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/grnrule/guides980427.htm The FTC has stated:

Degradable/biodegradable/photodegradable: It is deceptive to misrepresent, directly or by implication, that a product or package is degradable, biodegradable or photodegradable. An unqualified claim that a product or package is degradable, biodegradable or photodegradable should be substantiated by competent and reliable scientific evidence that the entire product or package will completely break down and return to nature, i.e., decompose into elements found in nature within a reasonably short period of time after customary disposal.

Claims of degradability, biodegradability or photodegradability should be qualified to the extent necessary to avoid consumer deception about: (1) the product or package's ability to degrade in the environment where it is customarily disposed; and (2) the rate and extent of degradation.

ag.ca.gov/cms_attachments/press/pdfs/n2577_complaint.pdf (complaint against ENSO) http://begreenpackaging.wordpress.com/tag/attorney/

The AG’s complaint asserts that the defendants’ 100% biodegradability claims are “false, deceptive and misleading to consumers because the plastic bottles will not biodegrade as claimed, either in a landfill or any other environment.”

(2) Less meaningful, impactful Starbucks Ethos Water imitation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethos_Water
-- the original claim (which was less misleading than "drop for drop") on the label was changed so as NOT to mislead consumers into thinking that Ethos is primarily a charitable organization, when it is actually a for-profit Starbucks brand and the vast majority of the sale price (over 94%) does not support clean-water projects.

(3) People Water's website and bottle do not explain the "drop for drop" metric in any way that a reasonable consumer could understand it, or that is substantiated with well output numbers that are publicly available. Ethos at least makes it clear: 5 cents goes to charity. If the $16/gallon (!) price of People Water, how much supports well repairs or construction?

(4) They don't report revenues or the amount of their donations to the two named charities. They gave money for three wells so far. At "The Water Project, http://thewaterproject.org/ , we learn that one well costs about $7000. 24 bottles of 16 oz size People Water cost $45.00. How much of that went to charity? At the end of the day, People Water just cuts a check, one presumes, to one of the two charities it supports. Consumers should be able to go on their website, and see how much is being donated.

(5) The well trips (such as the upcoming one to Ghana) are to film footage of people with two new wells, to be used to promote the For Profit business. The wells were completed last April. A PR stunt.

Give directly. Reuse containers. Support Cassie Lambert's Drop in the Bucket directly. Or infinite other better ideas.

Cecilia wrote:

jlccaz wrote:

Pattycake92 wrote:PW never claimed to be charity or non profit organization. I applaud them for helping others. ENSO is to blame for the problem with their bottles. Many people will drink bottled water no matter what you say so why not help others in the process? PW is getting a new website so hopefully it will be easier to track the projects that are going on. If bottled water is so damaging to our environment, how much more harmful is the exhaust fumes from racing events?

1. "Biodegradable" appears in/on People Water promotional material. Only PW is "to blame" for their own advertising.

2. Many people mistakenly think it's a charity if you browse the WWW. (The same problem Ethos had until they fixed their labeling)

3. Just want PW tell purchasers the facts, coincident with the huge burst of national attention on their brand they expect/seek/will enjoy as a consequence of the show. Tom's (from whom Jef and Cody seemingly copied this one for one idea, while also copying Ethos for the cause) at least publishes a useful guide. http://www.toms.com/media/files/8.24.11_GivingReport_Update.pdf One could do a similar "takedown" of the fallacy of the Tom's model, but who's got time, and at least they explain it clearly.

Jlccaz - you never answered my earlier question regarding whether you have ever done any volunteer or charity work outside the U.S.? You seem very eager to spend most of your time on this board bashing People Water and its message but have given little to no information about what you do to help others. I myself have traveled outside of the country on volunteer/project work, through my church, and through my line of work. It's not easy to put such a trip together although it is among the most rewarding experiences I have had, outside having and raising my babies. That being said, I still have to make a living, support and raise my family though - and I also like to enjoy my life.

Your constant berating of People Water is just getting old to me. They are a new company. Give them some time to grow and perfect things.

jlccaz wrote:

Pattycake92 wrote:PW never claimed to be charity or non profit organization. I applaud them for helping others. ENSO is to blame for the problem with their bottles. Many people will drink bottled water no matter what you say so why not help others in the process? PW is getting a new website so hopefully it will be easier to track the projects that are going on. If bottled water is so damaging to our environment, how much more harmful is the exhaust fumes from racing events?

1. "Biodegradable" appears in/on People Water promotional material. Only PW is "to blame" for their own advertising.

2. Many people mistakenly think it's a charity if you browse the WWW. (The same problem Ethos had until they fixed their labeling)

3. Just want PW tell purchasers the facts, coincident with the huge burst of national attention on their brand they expect/seek/will enjoy as a consequence of the show. Tom's (from whom Jef and Cody seemingly copied this one for one idea, while also copying Ethos for the cause) at least publishes a useful guide. http://www.toms.com/media/files/8.24.11_GivingReport_Update.pdf One could do a similar "takedown" of the fallacy of the Tom's model, but who's got time, and at least they explain it clearly.

jlccaz wrote:
There is no inference to draw from my personal choice not to diary my private life on the world wide web for your benefit. This is a board for discussion of a TV show and its contestants, not to interrogate members about private matters for the purpose of deterring commentary that differs from the views of some members.

shannonmac wrote:
And the next tweet is........

Nativenewyorker wrote:

jlccaz wrote:

Kels0012 wrote: [SNIPPED]
For those of us less informed, can you provide the evidence/links to the evidence that make you have these opinions? Thanks!

News flash from People Water FB Page:

Who wants to ask Jef Holm questions before the big finale? We're going to sponsor a Q&A with him starting tomorrow on crowdhall.com Watch for the invite!I've posted them it seems like a dozen times.

(How is this okay, such a weird season, such blatant use of ABC's platform to promote his product, whatever).

1. It is against the law in California, and highly questionable anywhere, to market with the word "biodegradable" as to plastic water container. ENSO, People Water's supplier is being sued by the California attorney general. The word "biodegradable" was stamped in huge promotional lettering on every box Jef was wheeling around in that sweepstakes/contest video he posted. http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/grnrule/guides980427.htm The FTC has stated:

Degradable/biodegradable/photodegradable: It is deceptive to misrepresent, directly or by implication, that a product or package is degradable, biodegradable or photodegradable. An unqualified claim that a product or package is degradable, biodegradable or photodegradable should be substantiated by competent and reliable scientific evidence that the entire product or package will completely break down and return to nature, i.e., decompose into elements found in nature within a reasonably short period of time after customary disposal.

Claims of degradability, biodegradability or photodegradability should be qualified to the extent necessary to avoid consumer deception about: (1) the product or package's ability to degrade in the environment where it is customarily disposed; and (2) the rate and extent of degradation.

ag.ca.gov/cms_attachments/press/pdfs/n2577_complaint.pdf (complaint against ENSO) http://begreenpackaging.wordpress.com/tag/attorney/

The AG’s complaint asserts that the defendants’ 100% biodegradability claims are “false, deceptive and misleading to consumers because the plastic bottles will not biodegrade as claimed, either in a landfill or any other environment.”

(2) Less meaningful, impactful Starbucks Ethos Water imitation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethos_Water
-- the original claim (which was less misleading than "drop for drop") on the label was changed so as NOT to mislead consumers into thinking that Ethos is primarily a charitable organization, when it is actually a for-profit Starbucks brand and the vast majority of the sale price (over 94%) does not support clean-water projects.

(3) People Water's website and bottle do not explain the "drop for drop" metric in any way that a reasonable consumer could understand it, or that is substantiated with well output numbers that are publicly available. Ethos at least makes it clear: 5 cents goes to charity. If the $16/gallon (!) price of People Water, how much supports well repairs or construction?

(4) They don't report revenues or the amount of their donations to the two named charities. They gave money for three wells so far. At "The Water Project, http://thewaterproject.org/ , we learn that one well costs about $7000. 24 bottles of 16 oz size People Water cost $45.00. How much of that went to charity? At the end of the day, People Water just cuts a check, one presumes, to one of the two charities it supports. Consumers should be able to go on their website, and see how much is being donated.

(5) The well trips (such as the upcoming one to Ghana) are to film footage of people with two new wells, to be used to promote the For Profit business. The wells were completed last April. A PR stunt.

Give directly. Reuse containers. Support Cassie Lambert's Drop in the Bucket directly. Or infinite other better ideas.

jlccaz,

This is a superb post! I think you are doing a real service in educating people with legal facts and substantiated information and facts. There is too much ignorance about the issue of bottled water and the misrepresentation of labeling a product as "biodegradable" is something that more people need to be made aware of and understand.

Thanks for your efforts! Great work!