Episode 12 - 7/22 - Bachelorette 8 - ATFR (Live) - Discussion

stuckinsc wrote:

Bananaloaf wrote:

RealityEscape wrote:MF - "Spoilers not accurate"; still thinking all this revolves around f2 - f3 - a way to generate buzz by saying spoilers not accurate but still with 1F ending. ( I'm in the camp that thinks a non-parent Emily, and Emily not so interested in more kids soon, would have potentially selected Ari. Fun is also very important to her but both guys appear to offer that and a lot else.) I'm just hoping they truly let Emily express why she chooses her F1 and that she can be sincere about why she didn't select F2. I'm quite certain it's Ari or Jef. (Though I can see where Sean would be a great catch for someone too!) Emily should be able to express a fairly reasonable way to let Ari down easily by saying the lifestyle not what she wants at this time. Not sure how she'd let down Jef - proabably the old tried and true - "there was a stronger attraction". Curious how others think Emily will tell her f2 why he wasn't chosen? Of course we'll never truly know the facts!!!

I have a question. I keep seeing people say that if M was 26 and didn't want kids right away she would pick Arie; however, I'm not understanding the logic of this based on what we've learned on the show. We have learned that Arie was in a relationship with a woman and that they lived together. She had two children, and he acted in somewhat of a parent role, taking them to school etc. We also learned that he wanted the marriage and family but the relationship didn't work out because the woman didn't know if she wanted more children and because he reminded her too much of her ex who was a racecar driver. We learned that what hurt him the most in the break up was how much he missed her kids. This, to me, would seem to back up that he is ready for marriage and kids. Now, we have also heard that 1F wants kids and a family etc., but we have heard his brother say that he has never before heard 1F express that this is something he wanted. Now, I'm not saying that any of this is true or not true, and I'm really not intending to be adverserial or anything. I'm really trying to understand. Can you help me out? :Smiley:

I think Arie wants a family, but I think the problem is Emily. They showed her being okay with Arie's travel when they talked about it early, but remember that in her talk with Arie's mom, his mom tells her they made it work but she was alone a lot.

One of the key points in the set up LCD discussion with Brad was that his lifestyle of coming home late and still leaving her to do most of the parenting was not good. Maybe as the process goes on, Emily begins to realize that yes she likes her alone time, but she really does want a partner to be there more and even Arie's mom confirmed that right now that isn't him.

Thanks for answering. I re-watched both of the dates you refer to in order to try and understand. I didn't see Arie's mom say anything about being alone alot and having to make it work. She said "it's a difficult life" but she loves it and the fact that she and Arie's dad have been married 31 years is proof that life with a race car driver can work. I also interpreted Brad's LCD much different than you (which is totally cool :Smiley: ). I didn't undertand them to be talking about Brad not being there (as in physically like Arie would not be if he was away racing), I understood Emily's concerns to be whether or not Brad understood what is involved with parenting ie getting up in the middle of the night, spending time in an ER with a kid with a busted head and whether or not he understood that life with a child does not include coming home at 6 pm and having quiet, drinking beer and watching football. I really didn't see anything about Brad coming home late or not being there.

Jeepers wrote:One thing with Arie .. Post filming he did make a statement regarding marriage and kids .. Not immediate .. but down the road...doesn't sound too in a hurry like Em is/does

Can you point me to where I might find that?

Bananaloaf wrote:

Jeepers wrote:One thing with Arie .. Post filming he did make a statement regarding marriage and kids .. Not immediate .. but down the road...doesn't sound too in a hurry like Em is/does

Can you point me to where I might find that?

Thousands of posts ago is the best I can do .. Sorry

ironcat wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:

Bananaloaf wrote:

RealityEscape wrote:MF - "Spoilers not accurate"; still thinking all this revolves around f2 - f3 - a way to generate buzz by saying spoilers not accurate but still with 1F ending. ( I'm in the camp that thinks a non-parent Emily, and Emily not so interested in more kids soon, would have potentially selected Ari. Fun is also very important to her but both guys appear to offer that and a lot else.) I'm just hoping they truly let Emily express why she chooses her F1 and that she can be sincere about why she didn't select F2. I'm quite certain it's Ari or Jef. (Though I can see where Sean would be a great catch for someone too!) Emily should be able to express a fairly reasonable way to let Ari down easily by saying the lifestyle not what she wants at this time. Not sure how she'd let down Jef - proabably the old tried and true - "there was a stronger attraction". Curious how others think Emily will tell her f2 why he wasn't chosen? Of course we'll never truly know the facts!!!

I have a question. I keep seeing people say that if M was 26 and didn't want kids right away she would pick Arie; however, I'm not understanding the logic of this based on what we've learned on the show. We have learned that Arie was in a relationship with a woman and that they lived together. She had two children, and he acted in somewhat of a parent role, taking them to school etc. We also learned that he wanted the marriage and family but the relationship didn't work out because the woman didn't know if she wanted more children and because he reminded her too much of her ex who was a racecar driver. We learned that what hurt him the most in the break up was how much he missed her kids. This, to me, would seem to back up that he is ready for marriage and kids. Now, we have also heard that 1F wants kids and a family etc., but we have heard his brother say that he has never before heard 1F express that this is something he wanted. Now, I'm not saying that any of this is true or not true, and I'm really not intending to be adverserial or anything. I'm really trying to understand. Can you help me out? :Smiley:

I think Arie wants a family, but I think the problem is Emily. They showed her being okay with Arie's travel when they talked about it early, but remember that in her talk with Arie's mom, his mom tells her they made it work but she was alone a lot.

One of the key points in the set up LCD discussion with Brad was that his lifestyle of coming home late and still leaving her to do most of the parenting was not good. Maybe as the process goes on, Emily begins to realize that yes she likes her alone time, but she really does want a partner to be there more and even Arie's mom confirmed that right now that isn't him.

I think sometimes it takes seeing the possibility of what you do want (and can have) to make you realize that something else, that seemed fine at first, really wasn't. Jef presenting Emily with an immediate secure future where she could start expanding her family while having all the support of his large clan, plus him having a job and the resources to allow them to spend a lot of time together, whether home with kids or on the road with kids, may have made the reality of Arie's different lifestyle less ideal for her than she initially envisioned. Why settle for half when you can presumably have it all? (And no, I don't think she would have reached the same conclusion if she was already madly in love with Arie by the time of HTDs, which IMO she definitely was NOT).

Before I say anything here, I think I need to include a disclaimer that I do not care who M picks and am not on a team. I am just trying to understand some of the things I'm reading. That said, why would a life with Arie be settling for half of the things you mention? Why would a life with 1F be immediately secure but a life with Arie not be? Arie has a job and the resouces to allow them to spend alot of time together, whether home with the kids or on the road, no? 1F travels for business just like Arie, doesn't he? Arie too has a supportive clan (maybe not a large one, but a supportive one), he's said he's ready to have kids, and I'm pretty confident he has the sperm (where's the darn fishy smilie when you need it :Smiley: ) necessary to get on expanding that family. I really see no difference between what the guys can offer her.

A far as not wanting a life with a race at driver; Emily grew up around the Hendricks and thry have always been in that world and from everything I've read, they seem like very well liked and respectable people. Had Ricky not passed away, the wife of a race car driver is exactly the life she would currently be living. I'm confused as to why this is ring discussed as an issue?

Bloven wrote:A far as not wanting a life with a race at driver; Emily grew up around the Hendricks and thry have always been in that world and from everything I've read, they seem like very well liked and respectable people. Had Ricky not passed away, the wife of a race car driver is exactly the life she would currently be living. I'm confused as to why this is ring discussed as an issue?

I'm confused too.

Bananaloaf wrote:

ironcat wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:

Bananaloaf wrote:

RealityEscape wrote:MF - "Spoilers not accurate"; still thinking all this revolves around f2 - f3 - a way to generate buzz by saying spoilers not accurate but still with 1F ending. ( I'm in the camp that thinks a non-parent Emily, and Emily not so interested in more kids soon, would have potentially selected Ari. Fun is also very important to her but both guys appear to offer that and a lot else.) I'm just hoping they truly let Emily express why she chooses her F1 and that she can be sincere about why she didn't select F2. I'm quite certain it's Ari or Jef. (Though I can see where Sean would be a great catch for someone too!) Emily should be able to express a fairly reasonable way to let Ari down easily by saying the lifestyle not what she wants at this time. Not sure how she'd let down Jef - proabably the old tried and true - "there was a stronger attraction". Curious how others think Emily will tell her f2 why he wasn't chosen? Of course we'll never truly know the facts!!!

I have a question. I keep seeing people say that if M was 26 and didn't want kids right away she would pick Arie; however, I'm not understanding the logic of this based on what we've learned on the show. We have learned that Arie was in a relationship with a woman and that they lived together. She had two children, and he acted in somewhat of a parent role, taking them to school etc. We also learned that he wanted the marriage and family but the relationship didn't work out because the woman didn't know if she wanted more children and because he reminded her too much of her ex who was a racecar driver. We learned that what hurt him the most in the break up was how much he missed her kids. This, to me, would seem to back up that he is ready for marriage and kids. Now, we have also heard that 1F wants kids and a family etc., but we have heard his brother say that he has never before heard 1F express that this is something he wanted. Now, I'm not saying that any of this is true or not true, and I'm really not intending to be adverserial or anything. I'm really trying to understand. Can you help me out? :Smiley:

I think Arie wants a family, but I think the problem is Emily. They showed her being okay with Arie's travel when they talked about it early, but remember that in her talk with Arie's mom, his mom tells her they made it work but she was alone a lot.

One of the key points in the set up LCD discussion with Brad was that his lifestyle of coming home late and still leaving her to do most of the parenting was not good. Maybe as the process goes on, Emily begins to realize that yes she likes her alone time, but she really does want a partner to be there more and even Arie's mom confirmed that right now that isn't him.

I think sometimes it takes seeing the possibility of what you do want (and can have) to make you realize that something else, that seemed fine at first, really wasn't. Jef presenting Emily with an immediate secure future where she could start expanding her family while having all the support of his large clan, plus him having a job and the resources to allow them to spend a lot of time together, whether home with kids or on the road with kids, may have made the reality of Arie's different lifestyle less ideal for her than she initially envisioned. Why settle for half when you can presumably have it all? (And no, I don't think she would have reached the same conclusion if she was already madly in love with Arie by the time of HTDs, which IMO she definitely was NOT).

Before I say anything here, I think I need to include a disclaimer that I do not care who M picks and am not on a team. I am just trying to understand some of the things I'm reading. That said, why would a life with Arie be settling for half of the things you mention? Why would a life with 1F be immediately secure but a life with Arie not be? Arie has a job and the resouces to allow them to spend alot of time together, whether home with the kids or on the road, no? 1F travels for business just like Arie, doesn't he? Arie too has a supportive clan (maybe not a large one, but a supportive one), he's said he's ready to have kids, and I'm pretty confident he has the sperm (where's the darn fishy smilie when you need it :Smiley: ) necessary to get on expanding that family. I really see no difference between what the guys can offer her.

You may be totally correct, but it doesn't really matter the way you or I see it, what matters (and what I was speculating on) is the way Emily sees it, which I suspect is more like how I described it (even though you're free to disagree). Arie's mother described life as the wife of a racecar driver as hard, so I assume she knows what she's talking about, and I'm guessing that she didn't spend a lot of time traveling with Arie Sr. when she was raising small children. Plus when Arie had the convo with Emily, he didn't discuss the possibility of her traveling with him, he just said he's away a lot (which at the time she seemed okay with). Jef OTOH, has a business that appears to be very flexible, as he and his partners are their own bosses, and his partners also have wives and young children, and from what we've seen from following them on FB and twitter, they all seem to spend a lot of time together. And there is no denying that Jef's immediate family has many more children in it at present than Arie's does, as none of his siblings have kids of their own, so yes, Jef's immediate home environment is more kid-friendly at present. Also, there are lots of photos of Jef with young children, haven't seen too many of Arie like that, so I don't think it's a stretch to assume that perhaps that IS indicative of the different lifestyles and surroundings both men typically are in day to day?

BTW, using the word "half" was just an expression, I wasn't actually measuring, and thought that was obvious, but I guess if I'm to be taken literally on everything I write, I'll have to be more careful in the future.

Bananaloaf wrote:

Bloven wrote:A far as not wanting a life with a race at driver; Emily grew up around the Hendricks and thry have always been in that world and from everything I've read, they seem like very well liked and respectable people. Had Ricky not passed away, the wife of a race car driver is exactly the life she would currently be living. I'm confused as to why this is ring discussed as an issue?

I'm confused too.

You've made some great points Bananaloaf. I agree with a lot of what you've said. And Bloven, you are so correct that life in racing is exactly what M has been involved in for many years. Don't see it as a drawback.

ironcat wrote:

Bananaloaf wrote:

ironcat wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:

Bananaloaf wrote:

RealityEscape wrote:MF - "Spoilers not accurate"; still thinking all this revolves around f2 - f3 - a way to generate buzz by saying spoilers not accurate but still with 1F ending. ( I'm in the camp that thinks a non-parent Emily, and Emily not so interested in more kids soon, would have potentially selected Ari. Fun is also very important to her but both guys appear to offer that and a lot else.) I'm just hoping they truly let Emily express why she chooses her F1 and that she can be sincere about why she didn't select F2. I'm quite certain it's Ari or Jef. (Though I can see where Sean would be a great catch for someone too!) Emily should be able to express a fairly reasonable way to let Ari down easily by saying the lifestyle not what she wants at this time. Not sure how she'd let down Jef - proabably the old tried and true - "there was a stronger attraction". Curious how others think Emily will tell her f2 why he wasn't chosen? Of course we'll never truly know the facts!!!

I have a question. I keep seeing people say that if M was 26 and didn't want kids right away she would pick Arie; however, I'm not understanding the logic of this based on what we've learned on the show. We have learned that Arie was in a relationship with a woman and that they lived together. She had two children, and he acted in somewhat of a parent role, taking them to school etc. We also learned that he wanted the marriage and family but the relationship didn't work out because the woman didn't know if she wanted more children and because he reminded her too much of her ex who was a racecar driver. We learned that what hurt him the most in the break up was how much he missed her kids. This, to me, would seem to back up that he is ready for marriage and kids. Now, we have also heard that 1F wants kids and a family etc., but we have heard his brother say that he has never before heard 1F express that this is something he wanted. Now, I'm not saying that any of this is true or not true, and I'm really not intending to be adverserial or anything. I'm really trying to understand. Can you help me out? :Smiley:

I think Arie wants a family, but I think the problem is Emily. They showed her being okay with Arie's travel when they talked about it early, but remember that in her talk with Arie's mom, his mom tells her they made it work but she was alone a lot.

One of the key points in the set up LCD discussion with Brad was that his lifestyle of coming home late and still leaving her to do most of the parenting was not good. Maybe as the process goes on, Emily begins to realize that yes she likes her alone time, but she really does want a partner to be there more and even Arie's mom confirmed that right now that isn't him.

I think sometimes it takes seeing the possibility of what you do want (and can have) to make you realize that something else, that seemed fine at first, really wasn't. Jef presenting Emily with an immediate secure future where she could start expanding her family while having all the support of his large clan, plus him having a job and the resources to allow them to spend a lot of time together, whether home with kids or on the road with kids, may have made the reality of Arie's different lifestyle less ideal for her than she initially envisioned. Why settle for half when you can presumably have it all? (And no, I don't think she would have reached the same conclusion if she was already madly in love with Arie by the time of HTDs, which IMO she definitely was NOT).

Before I say anything here, I think I need to include a disclaimer that I do not care who M picks and am not on a team. I am just trying to understand some of the things I'm reading. That said, why would a life with Arie be settling for half of the things you mention? Why would a life with 1F be immediately secure but a life with Arie not be? Arie has a job and the resouces to allow them to spend alot of time together, whether home with the kids or on the road, no? 1F travels for business just like Arie, doesn't he? Arie too has a supportive clan (maybe not a large one, but a supportive one), he's said he's ready to have kids, and I'm pretty confident he has the sperm (where's the darn fishy smilie when you need it :Smiley: ) necessary to get on expanding that family. I really see no difference between what the guys can offer her.

You may be totally correct, but it doesn't really matter the way you or I see it, what matters (and what I was speculating on) is the way Emily sees it, which I suspect is more like how I described it (even though you're free to disagree). Arie's mother described life as the wife of a racecar driver as hard, so I assume she knows what she's talking about, and I'm guessing that she didn't spend a lot of time traveling with Arie Sr. when she was raising small children. Plus when Arie had the convo with Emily, he didn't discuss the possibility of her traveling with him, he just said he's away a lot (which at the time she seemed okay with). Jef OTOH, has a business that appears to be very flexible, as he and his partners are their own bosses, and his partners also have wives and young children, and from what we've seen from following them on FB and twitter, they all seem to spend a lot of time together. And there is no denying that Jef's immediate family has many more children in it at present than Arie's does, as none of his siblings have kids of their own, so yes, Jef's immediate home environment is more kid-friendly at present. Also, there are lots of photos of Jef with young children, haven't seen too many of Arie like that, so I don't think it's a stretch to assume that perhaps that IS indicative of the different lifestyles and surroundings both men typically are in day to day?

BTW, using the word "half" was just an expression, I wasn't actually measuring, and thought that was obvious, but I guess if I'm to be taken literally on everything I write, I'll have to be more careful in the future.

I think you make alot of good points in your second explanation, but ultimately I think both families are kid-friendly in the sense that they both seem to be loving and happy. And, I never thought you were measuring anything nor do I see a reason for you to be careful. :Smiley:

I put this in the F1 speculation thread, but it really belongs here-

For anyone who is buying into the "switch" theory, when do you suppose it all happened? We know that Jason was sooo happy to be engaged to Melissa initially that in early December he leaked that he was engaged (couldn't contain himself), and then sometime in mid-late December, it started falling apart. This coincides with him changing his story in his media appearances in early January to the line that he "fell in love with 2 women". And after his week of media to kick off the premiere, he pretty much disappeared in terms of promoting the show (not surprising), which would be during the time that he, Melissa and the producers were negotiating the breakup and the "switch", the latter happening around January 18, I believe (first ATFR taped). So what exactly would have been the timeline for it happening this time around, and is there any correlating real time evidence to support it, as there was with Jason?

Are we talking about a 'switch' other than the F2/F3 switch? Because of the tweets between MF and RS? Because if it is people speculating about a switch after the show ended - don't believe it unless/until I see it with my own eyes. I think last nights tweets were just 2 people who can't stand each other trying to figure out the best way to irritate the other one. Some people have said that this season seems strange in regards to the edit and all the tweets that have been allowed afterwards but I see no signs that Emily has changed her mind anywhere in her post demeanor pictures or tweets. She seems like a woman who is truly happy.

I wrote the original comment - was mostly referring to Ari doing a lot of traveling and a more cosmpolitan lifestyle. Part of Emily would definitely enjoy that but in her reality, especially if "she can get it all" as one poster says, having hubby home for the birthday parties, etc would be ideal. Other posters have said this better than me.